[1.12.x] USI Life Support

[jpinard]

Roverdude - wanted to say thank you so much for ALL your mods.  Also, I don't know if this was intentional, but when I worked out the initials for this mod it comes out to "NOM NOM NOM NOM" lol.  Was that intentional?

[Andrew2448]

On 4/29/2016 at 6:49 PM, Andrew2448 said:

I'm not sure if it's a bug but all resource usage/creation is not calculated when at the two highest warp speeds. I just spent hours planning a Duna mission and calculating all the supplies and such that I would need only to discover that while warping during the 293 day transfer, no supplies were used. Once I stopped warping, everything immediately began to go back to how it normally works. Is this intended or what? Seems like a very easy way to get around the difficulty of long distance missions.

 

On 4/30/2016 at 7:17 PM, RoverDude said:

More specificity please.  Resources should absolutely be used during warp...  What does the UI show?

Hi there, sorry I didn't see your post until now. I did a mission to Duna and did all the math (like how was outlined in the wiki) and I happened to take a lot of pictures. You can see that album here: http://imgur.com/a/HEuGd

 

As you can see, in the transfer from Kerbin to Duna, virtually no supplies or fertilizer was used as when I made it to the two highest warp speeds, supplies were no longer used which caused no fertilizer to be used either. If you have any further question, please let me know.

[karamazovnew]

I seem to have a different issue regarding resource consumption. At Time scale >100x, electric charge is not used. Supplies working as intended.

 

By the way, I really don't understand if Kolonization, USI-Tools and CRP need to be updated separately, or UKS and USI are all that I need. To make things worse, Universal Storage packs CRP as well.

Edited May 4, 2016 by karamazovnew

[OddFunction]

My guys keep refusing to work because I'm out of supplies. Problem is I don't know when they need supplies because I don't know how to interpret this screen:

 

 

Can somebody tell me what all the different things mean please?

[ExplorerKlatt]

7 hours ago, OddFunction said:

My guys keep refusing to work because I'm out of supplies. Problem is I don't know when they need supplies because I don't know how to interpret this screen:

Can somebody tell me what all the different things mean please?

Each is a countdown timer. Sup is supplies. According to the screen you posted Jeb has been without supplies for 78 days. Hab is the time left until kerbals are sick of the current vessel. Home is the time until they need to return to Kerbin. 

[Zylark]

Thanks for clearing that up ExploreKlatt - I was just about to post myself asking what the Life-Support table is supposed to read as.

A follow up question - If my Kerbal(s) exceed the Hab time, and is properly fed up with their current environment, will they stop doing as they are told? And to continue, if they exceed the return to Kerbin time, will they go on strike?

[dlrk]

Any news on the only showing one kerbal in the editor issue? It occurs even on an otherwise vanilla install

[jofwu]

32 minutes ago, Zylark said:

If my Kerbal(s) exceed the Hab time, and is properly fed up with their current environment, will they stop doing as they are told? And to continue, if they exceed the return to Kerbin time, will they go on strike?

Unless you've changed the default settings, exeeding the Hab time (or any other time/supply limit) will cause you to lose control of that Kerbal. Meet their needs somehow after this and they'll be restored.

Ultimately that depends on your settings; the settings file is located in your GameData\USI\LifeSupport folder. If you have other USI mods, there might be duplicates located in other USI folders.

The settings let you specify what happens when you run out of time in any area. They also let you differentiate between "normal" Kerbals and the "veterans" that you start the game off. By default, all Kerbals are treated the same (same effects for vets and normals). The default effect is that they get "grouchy"- they become a Tourist and can no longer EVA, control the ship, etc. They can still be transferred from one part of the ship to another.

Edited May 5, 2016 by jofwu

[autumnalequinox]

Does EC/per second setting apply to Kerbals in spacecraft?  I increased it a bit (I like to simulate power consumption due to the life support system) and I am getting the same power draw as before.  Anybody else tried to increase it?  And does it only apply to EVA perhaps?

Does EC/per second setting apply to Kerbals in spacecraft?  I increased it a bit (I like to simulate power consumption due to the life support system) and I am getting the same power draw as before.  Anybody else tried to increase it?  And does it only apply to EVA perhaps?

 

Note:  I have no USI life support modules on my test orbiter.  It's a short range test rig.  So I'm not sure if the EC consumption only happens with supplies available.  

Edited May 5, 2016 by autumnalequinox
Clarification

[RoverDude]

On 5/3/2016 at 7:36 PM, Tandoori said:

UI Spamming issue reported on GitHub, save file uploaded, as well as an imgur gallery at http://imgur.com/a/Yjrdy. This was all reproduced on a new sandbox save after removing all but a number of commonly used mods. Let me know if I can provide any more information, thanks!

Yep, got this one fixed for the next release - thanks!

On 5/4/2016 at 1:08 AM, Andrew2448 said:

 

Hi there, sorry I didn't see your post until now. I did a mission to Duna and did all the math (like how was outlined in the wiki) and I happened to take a lot of pictures. You can see that album here: http://imgur.com/a/HEuGd

 

As you can see, in the transfer from Kerbin to Duna, virtually no supplies or fertilizer was used as when I made it to the two highest warp speeds, supplies were no longer used which caused no fertilizer to be used either. If you have any further question, please let me know.

hmm.. will take a peek.

On 5/4/2016 at 6:01 AM, karamazovnew said:

I seem to have a different issue regarding resource consumption. At Time scale >100x, electric charge is not used. Supplies working as intended.

 

By the way, I really don't understand if Kolonization, USI-Tools and CRP need to be updated separately, or UKS and USI are all that I need. To make things worse, Universal Storage packs CRP as well.

EC usage scales in stock due to battery starvation under warp.  This is by design.

2 hours ago, Zylark said:

Thanks for clearing that up ExploreKlatt - I was just about to post myself asking what the Life-Support table is supposed to read as.

A follow up question - If my Kerbal(s) exceed the Hab time, and is properly fed up with their current environment, will they stop doing as they are told? And to continue, if they exceed the return to Kerbin time, will they go on strike?

Yup, if any of those three numbers go red, bad things happen.

2 hours ago, dlrk said:

Any news on the only showing one kerbal in the editor issue? It occurs even on an otherwise vanilla install

Will take a peek, be patient

28 minutes ago, autumnalequinox said:

Does EC/per second setting apply to Kerbals in spacecraft?  I increased it a bit (I like to simulate power consumption due to the life support system) and I am getting the same power draw as before.  Anybody else tried to increase it?  And does it only apply to EVA perhaps?

Does EC/per second setting apply to Kerbals in spacecraft?  I increased it a bit (I like to simulate power consumption due to the life support system) and I am getting the same power draw as before.  Anybody else tried to increase it?  And does it only apply to EVA perhaps?

 

Note:  I have no USI life support modules on my test orbiter.  It's a short range test rig.  So I'm not sure if the EC consumption only happens with supplies available.  

You need to have a Kerbal using life support for the EC to drop.  You should have life support on all pods tho if you're using USI-LS.

[Tandoori]

Glad to help!

I've also noticed when putting ships together in the VAB, it doesn't add time for food potentially produced via recyclers and greenhouses - only food currently on the ship. This is by design as well, I take it?

[autumnalequinox]

9 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

 

You need to have a Kerbal using life support for the EC to drop.  You should have life support on all pods tho if you're using USI-LS.

Ooops sorry I used the word module incorrectly here.  I meant I didn't have any life support tanks attached, I'm just running off the "without supplies" time.  The life support window functions and such.  

 

Edited May 5, 2016 by autumnalequinox
server squirrels

[RoverDude]

Ok, yes, supplies need to be present for the EC to kick in - the two go together, tho that may change.

[autumnalequinox]

1 minute ago, RoverDude said:

Ok, yes, supplies need to be present for the EC to kick in - the two go together, tho that may change.

Oh ok thanks RoverDude!  Thought I was going crazy for a minute there trying afraid I had messed up something.

[Valkyria90]

After 1.1 dropped I wanted to start playing with life support. At first I wanted to try TAC life support, but as that mod never gets updated I went ahead and played with USI life support, and I love it

I read in a thread somewhere that there was something in the config or something I could edit so that Kerbals would be "killed" rather than just go on strike. Can someone confirm this and tell me how to change this?

Also, I am currently experimenting with using Planetary Base Systems as my main platform for making bases, since I love the stockalike design of that mod. Combining USI life support with PBS seems to make some interesting issues. First of all, the greenhouse of the PBS mod has two options: either "Start farming" or "Start life support". What is the difference between these two? Both seem to consume electricity but neither seems to give any extra supplies. It also seems like I got the "water" resource included for PBS. What is this resource useful for if the only USI mod I use are Life support?

edit: I want this mod for the life support only. Not for the home sickness and being sick of the vessle they are stuck on. Any way to disable the two other features?

Edited May 6, 2016 by Valkyria90

[ExplorerKlatt]

2 hours ago, Valkyria90 said:

 

edit: I want this mod for the life support only. Not for the home sickness and being sick of the vessle they are stuck on. Any way to disable the two other features?

With just USI-LS, hab and home are disabled by default (don't know if KPBS changes this). 

Inside the UmbraSpaceIndustries/Lifesupport folder, open settings.cfg and  change NoSupplyEffect = 1 to = 5

[cantab]

How well does USI-LS handle really long missions? Reading the documentation, it sounds like if I want to do for example a 50-year mission, I'd end up needing a (in my view) crazy amount of hab space. Or is UKS built to make such ships reasonably possible?

[ibanix]

4 hours ago, Valkyria90 said:

I read in a thread somewhere that there was something in the config or something I could edit so that Kerbals would be "killed" rather than just go on strike. Can someone confirm this and tell me how to change this?

 

Edit the Settings.cfg file in GameData/UmbraSpaceIndustries/LifeSupport and change NoSupplyEffect to '5'. If you want this to happen to the orange-shirt guys too, change NoSupplyEffectVets.

Edit: Whoops, ExplorerKatt beat me to it.

Edited May 7, 2016 by ibanix

[ibanix]

2 hours ago, cantab said:

How well does USI-LS handle really long missions? Reading the documentation, it sounds like if I want to do for example a 50-year mission, I'd end up needing a (in my view) crazy amount of hab space. Or is UKS built to make such ships reasonably possible?

You'll either have to disable the hab effect, or bring a huuuuge amount of habs/cupolas. According to my math, a 50 kerbal-year mission is 21,300 days. Each Hitchhiker container gives 495 kerbal-days, and each cupola adds a multiple of 1.76 (additive). 

So with no cupolas, you'd need 43 Hitchhiker containers. You could also do it with 10 hitchhiker containers at at least 3 cupolas. For one kerbal.

Edited May 7, 2016 by ibanix

[dlrk]

I'd like to write an MM config to add supplies to command pods and modular fuel tanks. What volume and density should I use for a unit of supplies?

[DStaal]

15 minutes ago, dlrk said:

I'd like to write an MM config to add supplies to command pods and modular fuel tanks. What volume and density should I use for a unit of supplies?

It's a CRP resource, so the easiest way is to check the CRP.  All CRP resources are expected to be 1 unit = 1 liter, and the CRP lists the density at 0.001 for Supplies.

[dlrk]

Thanks! That's .001 tons / 1kg a liter?

[Mr Shifty]

On 5/7/2016 at 7:42 PM, ibanix said:

You'll either have to disable the hab effect, or bring a huuuuge amount of habs/cupolas. According to my math, a 50 kerbal-year mission is 21,300 days. Each Hitchhiker container gives 495 kerbal-days, and each cupola adds a multiple of 1.76 (additive). 

So with no cupolas, you'd need 43 Hitchhiker containers. You could also do it with 10 hitchhiker containers at at least 3 cupolas. For one kerbal.

I thought you could reset hab by switching vessels. Just bring a workout vessel that you can detach from your main vessel for some spinning treadmill action. Transfer Kerbals across to it to reset their hab timers, then back to the main vessel.

Homesickness won't reset, but it has no effect by default.

[RoverDude]

15 hours ago, Mr Shifty said:

I thought you could reset hab by switching vessels. Just bring a workout vessel that you can detach from your main vessel for some spinning treadmill action. Transfer Kerbals across to it to reset their hab timers, then back to the main vessel.

Homesickness won't reset, but it has no effect by default.

Be careful.  Switching does not actually reset anything, it just changes one of the timers (the one based on your current vessel).  Consider the case of a Duna base with 10 years of hab, a transit vessel with 2 years of hab, and a rover on the surface of Duna with 15 days of hab.

The crew embarks from Kerbin in the transit vessel.  Their Hab timer is 2 years, and their Home timer is 2 years.

Two years in, they land at the base and move into the base.  Their Hab timer is now 10 years, and their Home timer is now 8 years (10 - 2).

They take a jaunt in the Rover.  Their hab timer drops to 15 days, their home timer stays at 8 years.  i.e. they can't live inside that rover...

They go back to the base and stay for five years.  Their hab timer is now 5 (10 - 5), and their home timer is 3 (8 - 5).

They have now been away from Kerbin for seven years.  The transit vessel returns, and they board it for the return trip home.

Once they board the transit vessel, their hab timer resets to 2, and their home timer remains at 3.  Provided they can get to Kerbin in the 2 year window, they are good to go.

 

21 minutes ago, Zefnoly said:

@RoverDude I'm trying to change the consumption of supplies in the config file but nothing happens when i do. The calculator in the game stil says the food will last the same time? Doesn't it work to change it or wont that calculator change after what you have edited in the config file? I dont like the "radicolous" amounts of weight with supplies i need to put on my ship compared to the TAC mod. But i stil want to use yours but this problem with the config file might make me change my mind again.

Not sure what 'Radicolous' means - best guess is that it's shorthand for 'properly balanced since USI-LS does not assume any recyclers by default, and also accounts for the sizeable amount of water lost due to hygeine, etc.?'

Kidding aside.  This mod is not TAC-LS.  If you dramatically lower those numbers, things are going to get really weird when recyclers kick on and drop them a further 70%-90% down the road.  Odds are you have multiple configs lying around, because USI-LS takes the most pessimistic view when it sees multiple config choices.

[cantab]

I might just knock up some custom configs to give certain parts lolhuge hab values. Basically my concept is that something big enough can effectively *be* "home" for the Kerbals on board.

I had a concept along the same lines for USI-LS, I don't think it's currently supported: Recognise a certain combination of parts in a single vessel as making it a second home, meaning that the Kerbals present (up to a limit) will have indefinite hab and home time. I'm imagining it would be used by the largest base and station parts, for example the stuff from Civilian Population would fit the bill, or UKS's upcoming Mk IV parts.