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Crzyrndm

By Crzyrndm
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Gordon Dry

Gordon Dry

Posted
Posted

Empty of what? Crew? Fuel? That would not be the reason.
Batteries? Perhaps, it went down slowly prior to take-off, with turboprops running there was no EC output.

I guess (and hope) it was just a borked .craft that I downloaded - the AGs also were "suboptimal" ... (every elevon as spoiler etc.).

I'll scrap this plane for now.

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Crzyrndm

Crzyrndm

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Posted (edited)

I need the full log. I'm guessing the module has been incorrectly added to a part without a control surface

EDIT

Vessel also as this is likely to be a specific part

Edited by Crzyrndm
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Gordon Dry

Gordon Dry

Posted
Posted (edited)

I loaded a vessel in VAB and first I did was pressing 'K' over the control surface.

Log got spammed with 

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at Dynamic_Controls.EditorWindow.DrawWindow (Int32 id) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at UnityEngine.GUILayout+LayoutedWindow.DoWindow (Int32 windowID) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at UnityEngine.GUI.CallWindowDelegate (UnityEngine.WindowFunction func, Int32 id, UnityEngine.GUISkin _skin, Int32 forceRect, Single width, Single height, UnityEngine.GUIStyle style) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
 
(Filename:  Line: -1)

and no UI shown as long as I clicked anywhere in the VAB (which normally would close the UI).
Then the spamming stopped.

Full log with craft*:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/6su48ngkbylak3m/2017-06-15-4 KSP.log.zip?dl=1

*Chryslus-I from BDB

Edit:

It worked with a craft that I built myself without issues. (Explorer 1)

Edit 2:

I also added the craft that made problems in my post from tuesday: Cormorán.craft

Edited by Gordon Dry
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Crzyrndm

Crzyrndm

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The issue is rather simple. You have FAR installed, DD expects control surfaces to be using the FAR module ("FARControllableSurface"). However, there are a number of control surface parts that have not been patched and still have the stock part module instead

Note: Most of the below list just haven't removed the stock module (they should be). The AirplanePlus parts however do not have any FAR replacement and this is what's causing DD to flip its lid

  • AirplanePlus/Parts/Aero/elevonhalf/part/hlfSrf
  • AirplanePlus/Parts/Aero/roundfin/part/roundwinglet
  • AirplanePlus/Parts/Aero/smallwings/elevon2b/elevon2b
  • Bluedog_DB/Parts/EarlyRockets/bluedog_redstoneCS/bluedog_redstoneCS
  • KWRocketry/Parts/Aero/KWFin/KWFin/KWFin
  • KWRocketry/Parts/Aero/KWFinGC/KWFinGC/KWFinGC
  • LonesomeRobots/DynaSoar/ElevonL/DynaElevonL
  • LonesomeRobots/DynaSoar/ElevonR/DynaElevonR
  • LonesomeRobots/DynaSoar/WingLeft/DynaWingL
  • LonesomeRobots/DynaSoar/WingRight/DynaWingR
  • SSTU/Parts/ShipCore/Series-E/SC-E-EL/SSTU-SC-E-EL
  • SSTU/Parts/ShipCore/Series-E/SC-E-ER/SSTU-SC-E-ER
  • SSTU/Parts/ShipCore/Series-E/SC-E-WT/SSTU-SC-E-WT
  • UmbraSpaceIndustries/SoundingRockets/Parts/SR_GridFin_01/SR_Gridfin_01
  • UmbraSpaceIndustries/SoundingRockets/Parts/SR_GridFin_02/SR_Gridfin_02
  • UmbraSpaceIndustries/SoundingRockets/Parts/SR_GridFin_03/SR_Gridfin_03
  • UmbraSpaceIndustries/SubPack/Otter/Parts/DivePlane/MiniSub_DivePlane
  • UmbraSpaceIndustries/SubPack/Otter/Parts/SubRudder/MiniSub_Rudder
  • WarpPlugin/Parts/Microwave/Hybridwings/heatfin/heatfin
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Gordon Dry

Gordon Dry

Posted
Posted (edited)

Another thing:

When I click "Defaults: Update" the Defaults.cfg is overwritten with the actual settings.

When I click "Defaults: Restore" the mods's default values are restored bot not them inside of the Defaults.cfg

Edit:

And just another one.

The reading always shows:
Deflect @ Q(xx) = 3.8(25%)

xx can be anything in the 20s - actually cruising at 16,500m (trying to, the Pilot Assistence wobble is between 14,500m and 16,510m ...) @Mach 1.7

I have changed the values a couple of times and actually there is no value for 25% so it seems something is wrong here...

Edit:

I slowed down and as soon as the speed fell below Mach 1.4 the dynamic controls decided to update and showed (75%) with an abrupt deflection change. Plane survived.

And I found a couple of these in the log: 

ArgumentException: GUILayout: Mismatched LayoutGroup.Repaint
  at UnityEngine.GUILayoutUtility.BeginLayoutGroup (UnityEngine.GUIStyle style, UnityEngine.GUILayoutOption[] options, System.Type layoutType) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at UnityEngine.GUILayout.BeginHorizontal (UnityEngine.GUIContent content, UnityEngine.GUIStyle style, UnityEngine.GUILayoutOption[] options) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at UnityEngine.GUILayout.BeginHorizontal (UnityEngine.GUILayoutOption[] options) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at Dynamic_Controls.EditorWindow.DrawWindow (Int32 id) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at UnityEngine.GUILayout+LayoutedWindow.DoWindow (Int32 windowID) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at UnityEngine.GUI.CallWindowDelegate (UnityEngine.WindowFunction func, Int32 id, UnityEngine.GUISkin _skin, Int32 forceRect, Single width, Single height, UnityEngine.GUIStyle style) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
 
(Filename:  Line: -1)

Log so far:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/76ad4lr9eb7mme9/2017-06-15-5 KSP.log.zip?dl=1

Edited by Gordon Dry
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linuxgurugamer

linuxgurugamer

Posted
Posted
5 hours ago, Crzyrndm said:

The issue is rather simple. You have FAR installed, DD expects control surfaces to be using the FAR module ("FARControllableSurface"). However, there are a number of control surface parts that have not been patched and still have the stock part module instead

Note: Most of the below list just haven't removed the stock module (they should be). The AirplanePlus parts however do not have any FAR replacement and this is what's causing DD to flip its lid

  • AirplanePlus/Parts/Aero/elevonhalf/part/hlfSrf
  • AirplanePlus/Parts/Aero/roundfin/part/roundwinglet
  • AirplanePlus/Parts/Aero/smallwings/elevon2b/elevon2b
  • Bluedog_DB/Parts/EarlyRockets/bluedog_redstoneCS/bluedog_redstoneCS
  • KWRocketry/Parts/Aero/KWFin/KWFin/KWFin
  • KWRocketry/Parts/Aero/KWFinGC/KWFinGC/KWFinGC
  • LonesomeRobots/DynaSoar/ElevonL/DynaElevonL
  • LonesomeRobots/DynaSoar/ElevonR/DynaElevonR
  • LonesomeRobots/DynaSoar/WingLeft/DynaWingL
  • LonesomeRobots/DynaSoar/WingRight/DynaWingR
  • SSTU/Parts/ShipCore/Series-E/SC-E-EL/SSTU-SC-E-EL
  • SSTU/Parts/ShipCore/Series-E/SC-E-ER/SSTU-SC-E-ER
  • SSTU/Parts/ShipCore/Series-E/SC-E-WT/SSTU-SC-E-WT
  • UmbraSpaceIndustries/SoundingRockets/Parts/SR_GridFin_01/SR_Gridfin_01
  • UmbraSpaceIndustries/SoundingRockets/Parts/SR_GridFin_02/SR_Gridfin_02
  • UmbraSpaceIndustries/SoundingRockets/Parts/SR_GridFin_03/SR_Gridfin_03
  • UmbraSpaceIndustries/SubPack/Otter/Parts/DivePlane/MiniSub_DivePlane
  • UmbraSpaceIndustries/SubPack/Otter/Parts/SubRudder/MiniSub_Rudder
  • WarpPlugin/Parts/Microwave/Hybridwings/heatfin/heatfin

What would I need to include with KW for this to be fixed?

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Crzyrndm

Crzyrndm

Posted
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Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

What would I need to include with KW for this to be fixed?

That was a list of all the parts in the MM cache that still had the stock control surface module present (FAR installed). The majority of those had FAR nodes as well, so everything still worked.

The only issue would be that the patch adding the FAR node, didn't remove the stock one (and I'm not even sure it's a problem. At worst it's the inefficiency of having both stock and FAR modules trying to do the same job). The "fix" (optimisation?) is just to remove the stock node when FAR is present

@Gordon Dry

  1. Defaults update -> restore loads something other than what was just saved: Unable to replicate. If I change the setting, hit update, change again, hit restore, it gives me back what I set at the update
  2. Output stuck at 25%: Sounds like a configuration issue, 25% is the default minimum deflection for Q in excess of 160. Since I see no errors in the log, the only assumption I can make is that the configured change from 25% to a much larger value was extremely abrupt. Need to see configuration to be of assistance, but that is a huge change from the default...
  3. Exceptions: Probably to do with the "Remove" buttons. They've always been a little funky

And to reply to your post in the Pilot Assistant thread about the mods cooperating, they do, just not quite in the way you imagine. DD was originally designed as a component of Pilot Assistant (it worked for a broader range of applications so got to be standalone). The reason Pilot Assistant knowing what DD is doing won't do anything, is that PA knows absolutely nothing about the vessel it is in control of to start with. It flies purely on current Heading / Altitude / Velocity / Pitch / etc. (Hence why it requires manual tuning for best performance). With control authority at 1/3 of what the default DD config gives, yes PA will struggle unless you retune it to match (the shipping defaults for DD are designed for PA after all)

Edited by Crzyrndm
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linuxgurugamer

linuxgurugamer

Posted
Posted
3 hours ago, Crzyrndm said:

The only issue would be that the patch adding the FAR node, didn't remove the stock one (and I'm not even sure it's a problem. At worst it's the inefficiency of having both stock and FAR modules trying to do the same job). The "fix" (optimisation?) is just to remove the stock node when FAR is present

Is this a patch included in FAR?

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Crzyrndm

Crzyrndm

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I couldn't tell you, I was only searching in the MM cache included in the uploaded log. 

UrlConfig
{
	name = KWFin
	type = PART
	parentUrl = KWRocketry/Parts/Aero/KWFin/KWFin
	url = KWRocketry/Parts/Aero/KWFin/KWFin/KWFin
	PART
	{
		name = KWFin
//...
		MODULE
		{
			name = ModuleControlSurface
			dragCoeff = 0.8
			deflectionLiftCoeff = 1.5
			ctrlSurfaceRange = 15
			ctrlSurfaceArea = 1.0
		}
//...
		MODULE
		{
			name = FARControllableSurface
			nonSideAttach = 0
			MAC = 1.311
			MidChordSweep = 29.375
			maxdeflect = 15
			b_2 = 1.2
			TaperRatio = 0.5
			ctrlSurfFrac = 0.3
		}
//...
	}
}
UrlConfig
{
	name = KWFinGC
	type = PART
	parentUrl = KWRocketry/Parts/Aero/KWFinGC/KWFinGC
	url = KWRocketry/Parts/Aero/KWFinGC/KWFinGC/KWFinGC
	PART
	{
		name = KWFinGC
//...
		MODULE
		{
			name = ModuleControlSurface
			dragCoeff = 0.8
			deflectionLiftCoeff = 1.5
			ctrlSurfaceRange = 15
			ctrlSurfaceArea = 1.0
		}
//...
		MODULE
		{
			name = FARControllableSurface
			nonSideAttach = 0
			MAC = 1.311
			MidChordSweep = 23.84
			maxdeflect = 20
			b_2 = 1.2
			TaperRatio = 0.6
			ctrlSurfFrac = 0.3
		}
//...
	}
}

 

Edited by Crzyrndm
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Gordon Dry

Gordon Dry

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 15.6.2017 at 9:30 PM, Crzyrndm said:

Note: Most of the below list just haven't removed the stock module (they should be).

 

On 15.6.2017 at 9:30 PM, Crzyrndm said:
  • KWRocketry/Parts/Aero/KWFin/KWFin/KWFin
  • KWRocketry/Parts/Aero/KWFinGC/KWFinGC/KWFinGC

Example:

There is already a patch file
GameData\KWRocketry\KWCommunityFixes\PatchesForMods\KW_FAR.cfg

which contains 


@PART[KWFin]:NEEDS[FerramAerospaceResearch]:FOR[KWRocketry]
{
	@module = Part
	@maximum_drag = 0
	@minimum_drag = 0
	@angularDrag = 0
	@dragCoeff = 0
	@deflectionLiftCoeff = 0
	@ctrlSurfaceRange = 0
	@ctrlSurfaceArea = 0
    !MODULE[ModuleLiftingSurface] {}
	MODULE
	{
		name = FARControllableSurface
		nonSideAttach = 0			
		MAC = 1.311
		MidChordSweep = 29.375
		maxdeflect = 15
		b_2 = 1.2
		TaperRatio = 0.5
		ctrlSurfFrac = 0.3
	}
}
@PART[KWFinGC]:NEEDS[FerramAerospaceResearch]:FOR[KWRocketry]
{
	@module = Part
	@maximum_drag = 0
	@minimum_drag = 0
	@angularDrag = 0
	@dragCoeff = 0
	@deflectionLiftCoeff = 0
	@ctrlSurfaceRange = 0
	@ctrlSurfaceArea = 0
    !MODULE[ModuleLiftingSurface] {}
	MODULE
	{
		name = FARControllableSurface
		nonSideAttach = 0			
		MAC = 1.311
		MidChordSweep = 23.84
		maxdeflect = 20
		b_2 = 1.2
		TaperRatio = 0.6
		ctrlSurfFrac = 0.3
	}
}

The only difference I can see to the "Final Results" at
https://github.com/ferram4/Ferram-Aerospace-Research/wiki/Deriving-FAR-values-for-a-wing-using-Blender-2.7

is that the patch file mentioned above also contains a line 

    !MODULE[ModuleLiftingSurface] {}

So what is actually the problem with the two parts?

And btw do I really have to install and learn working with Blender and import the modules created by others to be able to create FAR patches which eventually will be merged into the mods by pull requests?

 

Edit:

Could it be that instead of

@PART[KWFin]:NEEDS[FerramAerospaceResearch]:FOR[KWRocketry]

it should be

@PART[KWFin]:NEEDS[FerramAerospaceResearch]:FOR[KWRocketry]:AFTER[KWRocketry]

?? Just that simple?

I was inspired to this idea by

GameData\SXT\Patches\ModCompatibility\FAR\FAR_Wings.cfg

 

Edited by Gordon Dry
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dave1904

dave1904

Posted
Posted (edited)
20 hours ago, linuxgurugamer said:

It controls the throttle.  Not the thrust curves

But for srbs that is not an option. You cannot control the trust. SRBs in ksp as you know have constant trust compared to real ones. Variable Trust Limiter was really nice because you could build SRBs to have 100% trust at the start of the launch and it would decrease as the fuel burned up. Really handy mod for building shuttles and keeping a nice trust curve during a launch. Sadly I don't know how to make dlls. Maybe someone could take a look at the source and update it. To be honest I have not even tested it for 1.5 since I have no time to play and waiting for one or 2 more mods to be updated. I just assume since its a dll it needs updating.  

Edited by dave1904
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linuxgurugamer

linuxgurugamer

Posted
Posted
18 minutes ago, dave1904 said:

But for srbs that is not an option. You cannot control the trust. SRBs in ksp as you know have constant trust compared to real ones. Variable Trust Limiter was really nice because you could build SRBs to have 100% trust at the start of the launch and it would decrease as the fuel burned up. Really handy mod for building shuttles and keeping a nice trust curve during a launch. Sadly I don't know how to make dlls. Maybe someone could take a look at the source and update it. To be honest I have not even tested it for 1.5 since I have no time to play and waiting for one or 2 more mods to be updated. I just assume since its a dll it needs updating.  

There is a mod called BetterSRBs which you should look at, it does a better job of modeling the thrust curves of read SRBs

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