A Reminder to the Community

[BagelRabbit]

Dear Community,

My name is UpsilonAerospace.

I have only ever truly loved three or four games in my lifetime. KSP is one of them. I'm proud to be a member of the community here, too. For the most part, it's a great group, and I don't know if I'll ever find a better one.

However, after the release of 1.0 and its subsequent patches, the community seems to have become less unified and more angry. While some aspects of this anger may be justified, others are certainly not. So today, I'm just going to give my two cents on the current state of affairs within the community, as well as how it can be improved. Take these opinions with a grain of salt (I'm certainly not perfect), but give them some thought, alright?

A Reminder to the Community.

~~~

I want to say that when it comes to being irritated, there are some times when your irritation is absolutely justified. However, your method of expressing this irritation is often rather extreme. Dialing back a notch would often do a better job of conveying your opinions to both SQUAD and the other members of the community.

I know that many of you will defend loudly exclaiming, "This part/system should be changed!" After all, it worked for the Round-8, for example. That's not what I'm here to talk about today.

Instead, I want to discuss times when loud statements have no chance whatsoever of doing anything other than harming the community. I will try to keep it friendly: after all, I don't want to fall under any of the categories below myself.

So, what can our community improve upon?

~~~

1. Attacking SQUAD for things that have already happened.

This has been one of the biggest points of contention for the Forum lately. After the release of 1.0, many Forum-goers have been irate about SQUAD releasing KSP prematurely, which has led to some heated discussion.

It's difficult to emphasize this enough: 1.0 has already been released. It's out, whether you like it or not. There is nothing you can do to change this fact, unless you have a time machine. And even then, the paradoxes would be immense!

Is it right to be irritated that 1.0 isn't as good a version as you thought it would be? Perhaps. But many people on the Forum are taking it one step further. Their argument is, essentially, that we warned SQUAD of the impeding problems with 1.0 and they didn't listen. Depending on who you ask, they could certainly be considered correct. But bringing up this point again and again is akin to gloating. At the end of the day, what does it accomplish? It doesn't make a better game and it doesn't make for a better community. Indeed, there have been some serious, often impolite arguments flying both ways.

The only argument you could make in favor of this gloating is that some are saying, "SQUAD should listen to the community more! If it did, these things wouldn't happen." But if we're just deadlocked in events of the past, criticizing decisions that have already been made, there's no real reason why SQUAD would listen to us.

It's time to accept that 1.0 is out, and that it's a much better use of your time to ask that SQUAD fixes things that aren't impossible to fix. Okay?

~~~

2. Claiming to know exactly how the game should be developed, and getting irritated when it is not so.

There was once an expression that went something like, "The greatest experts are the ones in the stands." I can't remember exactly how it goes, but you get the idea. (Anyone who could point me towards the real expression gets free Internet points!)

SQUAD, it is important to note, is doing what it thinks is best for KSP. There are a few people who think that it is deliberately trying to make a bad game, and this is simply not the case. If SQUAD really was trying to make a bad game, I hope you can agree that the game would be much worse than it is now.

That being said, they sometimes don't listen to their community. And sometimes they are wrong. But they listen to the community quite often, and they are actually right more often than not. I don't think that enough people appreciate this.

Is it reasonable to make requests to SQUAD? Absolutely. Is it right to get irritated if these requests are not fulfilled? Not really. While SQUAD's opinions on what make this game great may be different from ours, it has full control over the game and nothing will change this. In addition, the community's interests and SQUAD's interests often align well, though they may disagree when it comes to the minutiae of the game. There's where the "SQUAD isn't listening to us!" argument comes into play. (I know there are exceptions to this, but it seems as if many quibbles are over surprisingly minor aspects of the game.)

I would also say that few other developers work with the community at all, including indie game developers. SQUAD is doing us a huge favor as it is. When we're yelling things at SQUAD, we're going a little too far. And when SQUAD doesn't unconditionally try to work on what we want and we get irritated, we're behaving like privileged children who don't know how lucky they are. I'm sorry to say this, but it negatively impacts the community. And I don't think anyone wants that to happen.

~~~

3. Posting harsh things to other Forum members.

This one is a given.

As a Forum and a community, we should do our best to get along. There will be disagreements, there's no doubting that. But some people take these disagreements to a whole other level.

Maybe yelling at SQUAD will make them 'Bring Back the Round-8,' but yelling at other forum members will not change their mind. As a matter of fact, it will make them even more opposed to your point of view. Being hostile does not encourage rational thought, but instead personal attacks and other such travesties. This behavior will never be acceptable.

I'm not going to talk about this one too much, as I'm sure you already know all about it. But it is certainly something to consider before hitting the 'Post' button.

~~~

Well, that's my two cents. If you agree with them, I'm happy we're on the same page. If you disagree, having a rational and well-thought-out discussion would be great. (Anything less productive will not be tolerated. I hope you understand where I'm coming from here.)

I look forward to hearing what you have to say on this. Thanks for taking the time to read it!

-Upsilon

(P.S. I wish I could have posted this earlier. I'm having ongoing computer troubles, and thus I wasn't able to get this guy out when it was most needed. But better late than never, right?)

Edited May 9, 2015 by UpsilonAerospace

[DancesWithSquirrels]

^^^^^^ This, +1.

Constructive commentary gets things done. Destructive commentary is just, and only, that.

[Bill Phil]

I agree.

My main problem with 1.0 being released was that the critics might just rip it apart. But KSP has garnered some very good reviews from a few sites. I'm glad to be wrong.

There are a few quirks (like the fairings having strange mass properties), but many games have them. KSP is no exception.

Bugs aren't all that common for me anymore. Sometimes one will show up, but it isn't gamebreaking as often as it was.

The optimizations were outstanding! Even my computer can run KSP decently now!

Bravo, Squad. Bravo.

[Caelib]

Well said. I've been playing for a few years and I think the development and features for 1.0 are in pretty good shape.

[CaptainKipard]

UpsilonAerospace I can't make heads or tails of the actual content of your points 1 and 2.

1. Is this just a long-winded way of saying "the past is the past"? When has that ever been a convincing argument? The moment you do anything it's already in the past. So what?

2. This whole point is a bit of a strawman and a red herring. I can't honestly believe you think anyone in this community ACTUALLY BELIEVES SQUAD ARE SABOTAGING THEIR OWN PRODUCT. Come on... As for Squad doing what's best for KSP, well it's not that simple. Squad are a capitalist organisation (otherwise known as a business) and as such they are doing what they think is best for Squad, not KSP. KSP being good or bad is just a vehicle for that, as is our enjoyment of the "finished" product. Which brings us back to point 1.

Now if you think that a game has to be good for large masses to buy it then you've not been paying attention to the game market in recent years. Many studios that I would consider reputable a few years ago now put out unfinished garbage, lackluster DLC or pay-to-win nonsense, which should tell you just one thing. Gamers will buy ANYTHING.

I've heard some commentators say that another game market crash is approaching because of this over-saturation. I kinda care about Squad and I'd like them to survive, which is why I've been critical. It's a good thing. KSP being the first game of it's kind deserves better.

As consumers we have every right to express our experience. That's what a free market is. You buy something. You enjoy it. You talk about it, and get Squad more exposure and more business. You don't enjoy it, You also talk about it to warn others to be more cautious when considering the purchase.

To complain about the fact that we are complaining is ridiculous.

....

Let me know if I've misunderstood.

[klgraham1013]

I've intentionally tried to tone down the snark recently. Sometimes I take this stuff way to seriously.

I'll also add that ignoring the past gets you nowhere. That being said, people asking for apologies from Squad and the like... That's a bit much.

[Pax Kerbana]

Dear UpsilonAerospace,

My name is Pax Kerbana.

A FRIENDLY NOTIFICATION:

I find this thread more irritating than the threads you find irritating.

For the record, I like 1.0 quite a bit and have no complaints.

[Aerindel]

I've said my piece about the game in other places. At this point I've decided to just go back to playing Bloodborne until the next update and then come back and see how things stand. My obsession with KSP is probably unhealthy anyway. I've played it more than I think I've played any other game in my life..this is probably because I have wanted to build spaceships since I was a little kid. KSP lets me build them...it doesn't let my fly them they way they should fly but due to (probably a mental illness of some kind) my personality that is almost enough to make me happy....or at least it was...maybe I am so angry over 1.0 because I feel myself burning out on building ships and wanted something...anything...to keep this game relevant as a game and not just a building set.

Thankfully, there are not as many pacifists in this forum as I feared so something good probably will come our way as long as the flame keeps burning. And no, not the flame of creativity that burns in every little kerbals heart...I mean the flame of the torch in the hand of the angry villager.

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

Dear UpsilonAerospace,

My name is Pax Kerbana. Rosco

A FRIENDLY NOTIFICATION:

I find this thread more irritating than the threads you find irritating.

For the record, I like 1.0 quite a bit and have no complaints.But for the record, I don't like 1.0 and I have a lot of complaints.

If you find irritating thread complaining, imagine how that people feel when you post a thread complaining about the complaining.

[JedTech]

If you find irritating thread complaining, imagine how that people feel when you post a thread complaining about the complaining.

I would complain about this comment, but that would just be absurd.

[zekes]

I agree... I try to stay away from hostility and focus on being productive. That's a good rule to live by.

[razark]

In response to your point 1, if a person sees a pattern of decision making that they believe is bad, how can they bring up their concerns without referencing the pattern that raised their concerns?

I agree that there's something wrong with "Squad did X, Y, and Z! They should be made to suffer!" However, lumping those people together with "Squad did X, Y, and Z. I'm not sure there wasn't a better way to handle those items. I'm worried about how they're going to handle other items in the future." doesn't really help, either.

[Wallygator]

It's not what you complain about, it's how you complain about it.

The OP although being well intentioned, missed this point. Constructive criticism can be effective regardless of timeframe, person or topic.

[ColKlonk]

Troll ...

:P:D

[Hobbes Novakoff]

Troll ...

:P:D

To quote Siri:

I'm not sure I understand.

[Silanda]

OP, a piece of advice for you: don't call an opinion piece a "friendly reminder". That is one of the most passive-aggressive terms you can use; you're telling people what to do under the guise of giving your opinion on a topic. That's going to rub people up the wrong way, especially if you have no authority.

To specifically address your points though:

Point 1: This makes no sense whatsoever. We can hardly criticize Squad for things that they will or won't do in the future, can we? So, let me get this straight: if it's impossible to criticize something that hasn't happened, and apparently we're not supposed to criticize Squad for past decisions we see as bad, what you're actually saying is that we shouldn't criticize Squad for anything ever? Is that right?

Point 2: Who is actually saying that Squad is sabotaging their own product except in jest? What does appear to be true however, is that Squad seem to have been driven in a certain direction for the release schedule of 1.0 that has nothing to do with making the best game possible, and is likely due to commercial interests. Commercial interests that appear to have compromised the current version of the game. That's fair to criticize, the same as it is fair to criticize major publishers when they release buggy, half cooked AAA games because they have to meet a predetermined release date.

Point 3: Is actually much of this going on? This has to be one of the most polite forums on the net.

Finally: If people are sick of complaints then how does it make any sense to bump complaints threads with statements like "I'm sick of people complaining", or to start entirely new threads complaining about people complaining? Surely it would make more sense to let things cool off on their own.

Edit: I occurs to me that this post may seem a little more abrasive than I wanted it to. All I can say is that I tend to be a little grumpy in the morning. Damn sunlight disrupting my slumber!

Edited May 9, 2015 by Silanda

[JellyCubes]

~~A Friendly Reminder to OP~~

Your post complaining about complainers has as much worth as posts by complainers themselves.

(◡‿◡✿)

[Mipe]

Do you really believe that all those complainers have the OCD to read lengthy posts by nobody relevant? They just read thread titles and KABLAMMO! Since the tread title reads "A friendly reminder to the community", they assume it's nothing useful and move on, seeking more controversial topics.

[Roflcopterkklol]

I am guilty of getting overly butt frustrated on the release and taking it out on squad, in saying that i really wish they could have picked an aero model for 1.0 before releasing it and sticking with it, they should have given people like scott manley the game weeks in advance so they could test it for us instead of us test it, learn it then have them change it multiple times.

But yeah. as you said cant do anything about it now, coulda woulda shoulda, lets just hope they do not change the aero model again..

Do you really believe that all those complainers have the OCD to read lengthy posts by nobody relevant? They just read thread titles and KABLAMMO! Since the tread title reads "A friendly reminder to the community", they assume it's nothing useful and move on, seeking more controversial topics.

considering most of the people who complain are here complaining after reading it, i guess they do.

Edited May 9, 2015 by Roflcopterkklol

[Levelord]

OP, a piece of advice for you: don't call an opinion piece a "friendly reminder". That is one of the most passive-aggressive terms you can use; you're telling people what to do under the guise of giving your opinion on a topic. That's going to rub people up the wrong way, especially if you have no authority.

To specifically address your points though:

Point 1: This makes no sense whatsoever. We can hardly criticize Squad for things that they will or won't do in the future, can we? So, let me get this straight: if it's impossible to criticize something that hasn't happened, and apparently we're not supposed to criticize Squad for past decisions we see as bad, what you're actually saying is that we shouldn't criticize Squad for anything ever? Is that right?

Point 2: Who is actually saying that Squad is sabotaging their own product except in jest? What does appear to be true however, is that Squad seem to have been driven in a certain direction for the release schedule of 1.0 that has nothing to do with making the best game possible, and is likely due to commercial interests. Commercial interests that appear to have compromised the current version of the game. That's fair to criticize, the same as it is fair to criticize major publishers when they release buggy, half cooked AAA games because they have to meet a predetermined release date.

Point 3: Is actually much of this going on? This has to be one of the most polite forums on the net.

Finally: If people are sick of complaints then how does it make any sense to bump complaints threads with statements like "I'm sick of people complaining", or to start entirely new threads complaining about people complaining? Surely it would make more sense to let things cool off on their own.

Pretty much this.

[r4pt0r]

I started a thread to say my thoughts and it got dumped into the suggestions and development board, should this one as well?

honestly though, I only started my thread because It was 1am, I am laidoff, and I was bored. I hope no one is losing sleep over this game. you can disagree with decisions made, but KSP is still fun for all of us here. Coming in here to argue with Upsilon over any perceived tone serves no one.

I like this thread both for the message and for the beautiful formatting on the OP itself.

My regret is I contributed to the negativity that caused Upsilon to create this thread, thus taking precious time away from him he could have used to keep working on his music seen in this thread http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/88869-KSP-Plugin-Songs!-%28Current-Song-SUN%29, which everyone here should listen to and support becoming a stock addition once he is finished with all the tracks.

Edited May 9, 2015 by r4pt0r

[Columbia]

It's been a week ever since KSP 1.0 has been released. There's no need to bring it up so many times. Some people just don't listen.. Frustrating, I know, but what can we do? Kasper has already released an official announcement regarding this and has caused some other people to rage even more. Bringing criticism up will only cause the "protestant" players to lash out even more.

I appreciate it, though. Good point.

Edited May 9, 2015 by Columbia

[CaptainKipard]

It's been a week ever since KSP 1.0 has been released. There's no need to bring it up so many times. Some people just don't listen.. Frustrating, I know, but what can we do? Kasper has already released an official announcement regarding this and has caused some other people to rage even more. Bringing criticism up will only cause the "protestant" players to lash out even more.

I appreciate it, though. Good point.

Kasper said not to criticise testers, not Squad. Squad are absolutely fair game.

[KAP1985]

not to be rude, but, I'm getting really tired of seeing these threads, hasn't this point been argued to death?

[Bill Phil]

~~A Friendly Reminder to OP~~

Your post complaining about complainers has as much worth as posts by complainers themselves.

(◡‿◡✿)

This isn't true. This is much more constructive than, "Aero is unplayable," or "Do you like hot dog airplanes?!"