What's your refinery style: orbital or surface?

[eddiew]

Glad I read this thread, I didn't realise that there was room for debate, just kind of assumed in-situ was the way to go.

I'm inclined to favour orbital, since I find rendezvous easier than perfect landings. In the event of a station/refinery that's so big as to cause lag, you have more options for splitting it up too - not to mention it's easier to handle low fps in orbit than it is 50m above the surface!

[celem]

See in theory I would put my converters in orbit, miners on the surface and a dedicated shuttle to ferry between. This because both of these components are significant 'dead-weight' and should move as rarely as possible. In practice I added a second convertor to the static mining rig. This addition means that the ferry can return very nearly empty from orbit, not needing to bring down enough fuel for the next ascent. In this way I have a small refining and storage capability at the minehead for the transporters, and a major refinery in orbit for customers.

Loving the new ISRU features. Dove-tails beautifully with my new kOS spot-landing script. I've managed to automate the transfer, ascent, dock, transfer, undock, deorbit and spot-land. The only input I need to make is to hook up a KAS link each time it touches down since my script cant handle a 'real' docking procedure on the surface. I rather liked the idea a while back in this thread about using a claw and rover wheels to make the connection, I could feasibly automate that and have the entire system run hands-off. (Im envisioning a script that once run sends the ferry up and down until the refinery in orbit fills, after which it parks the ferry and returns control to the player. Lets me set it running and bugger off out with my dogs or whatever!)

With kOS at least I find spot-landings much easier to code than dockings, my first installation parked all the hardware on the deck and customers came down under script to land within some 100m where they got manually KAS'd into the system. If I were flying everything by hand then I would find orbital docks much simpler than repeated spot-lands. This was true for Mun, might be less-so for Minmus which I find considerably simpler to bullseye specific sites. I've yet to work out an auto spot-lander for an atmosphere though. I had just started making progress when the aero changed so im back to stage 1.

Edited May 11, 2015 by celem

[KerbMav]

(Im envisioning a script that once run sends the ferry up and down until the refinery in orbit fills, after which it parks the ferry and returns control to the player. Lets me set it running and bugger off out with my dogs or whatever!)

I have not read all, but I remember this mod might do what you are looking for.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/85630-1-0-2-Routine-Mission-Manager-v011

[Caelib]

Until there are some STOCK EVA-attachable fuel lines between craft, I think surface refineries aren't practical.

[KerbMav]

I have a weird idea ... how about a landing pad made from Structural Panels covered in junior docking ports and a lander with a junior docking port on the underside, landing gear putting it just low enough to ... oh my ...

[celem]

I have a weird idea ... how about a landing pad made from Structural Panels covered in junior docking ports and a lander with a junior docking port on the underside, landing gear putting it just low enough to ... oh my ...

Nice... very nice. Might just have to try that.

[whoshotdk]

I made a base like that a while ago, I think I might convert it to a refinery now!

[KerbMav]

I made a base like that a while ago, I think I might convert it to a refinery now!

Looks great!

But how does the small shuttle fly, I cannot see tanks or engines?

I guess it maneuvers with RCS over the docking port?

A more elegant solution to my "cover the ground with them and see you hit on".

And how in Kerbol's name did you get/built it there?

[lazarus1024]

It isn't bad gameplay if it is fun, and it is. If you don't like it, don't do it. You can refine it on the ground if you want, your choice. Stop trying to ruin it for the rest of us.

I mean really, if you want bad gameplay how about the asinine ways to connect modules into a base while landed on terrain full of hills? That is what I call bad gameplay. Base building is pointless in stock unless Squad adds someway to connect modules that are not level. Until they fix that, orbital fuel refinery, all the way.

I would be all over flexible connectors. Could use something like the claw logic, but with docking ports. Or you could just use the claw.

[ArmchairGravy]

I use an orbital refinery around Minmus. The low gravity means I'm not burning off my payload getting to/from the surface, and the refinery can then go refuel stuff.

[KerbMav]

I would be all over flexible connectors. Could use something like the claw logic, but with docking ports. Or you could just use the claw.

Can we put parts with docking ports on the end of a claw?

[X-SR71]

This is what I came up with recently. It's both a mining station and refinery, oh and science lab too. Single launch from kerbin. Transfered and landed with 4 poodles, 2 on each side (poodles are gone now).

There are a bunch of docking ports all around, including one at the top of the central pole, but I'm thinking of sending little trucks with claws that will ferry the fuel into orbit and attach to clients. Delivery service if you will. Having a gas station in orbit seems like extra work for little gain to me..

This is in career and the whole vessel cost 350k roots, including launch stage. But i made 200k back from a 'land a base on minmus with support for 7 kerbals' contract

Edited May 11, 2015 by X-SR71

[ExplodingRocketShips]

I save weight on my ships and turn all my Karbonite into Fuel and Electricity aboard my Space Station, Dragonfly.

[nholzric]

This is in career and the whole vessel cost 350k roots, including launch stage. But i made 200k back from a 'land a base on minmus with support for 7 kerbals' contract

Thank you, I came to this thread for pictures, PICTURES people!

But X-SR71, your base is impossible. You launched it in one piece. In career. For 350k. Unbelievable. (and amazing!)

(Will you share pictures of the launch or at least the whole thing in the VAB?)

[X-SR71]

Thank you, I came to this thread for pictures, PICTURES people!

But X-SR71, your base is impossible. You launched it in one piece. In career. For 350k. Unbelievable. (and amazing!)

(Will you share pictures of the launch or at least the whole thing in the VAB?)

Sure! Here's the whole thing! Please don't judge though, I spent a lot of time building the base and kind of rushed the base stage! It's horrid!

Basically I slapped together 4 poodles on top of 4 skippers on top of 4 twin-boars. Oh and 4 more boosters to get an acceptable TWR. The engines aren´t even aligned with each other

I just wanted to get the whole thing to minmus! It didn't have to look pretty.. Had to build a twin girder structure to strut the whole thing together so it would fly 'stable'.

[BDelacroix]

I haven't built one yet. I did build a drilling tower that refines ore to fuel, but it is just one of the 55gallon drum style tanks. I'd like to build a refinery that fills orange tanks or bigger. I'd probably use that to refill tankers that will provide local service to planetary systems.

[Foxster]

Was playing around with a surface refinery with a landing pad.

Here's the pad coming in to land in a rich ore area. Everything above the pad is to be discarded after landing...

The separate miner+processing rover drives and permanently clamps to the post on the pad, so making fuel available at the pad...

...and here's the first customer landed, a refueling tug...

It docks simply by dropping onto the deck by raising the legs and so the grabber engages...

The thing is though, it takes quite a bit of piloting to hit the pad, with MJ's translatron being really handy. It would be a lot easier to land a ship in the area and have a refueling rover with a grabber sticking out the front drive up and grab the ship for refuelling. So, fun that it is, I don't think this will be my preferred solution.

Edited May 11, 2015 by Foxster

[Aragosnat]

Have not gotten to aquire them yet in my career mode. But, my ideas are.

Groundside: Have the ore collector seprate from refinery with a rover to transfer ore over and another rover to transfer fuel. With the refinery being on the highest elevation possable close to the mining sight. That way I can keep a lower part count as well as have a place that would require less fuel for the shuttle. Other reason is so I could spam solar panels or what ever I needed to make my craft look kool.

Orbital: Similar to the ground one with rover using ore with the shuttle being dropped anyware close to the mining operation. Orbital refiner will likely not have the ore container just to help keep the part count down. Now this is where it gets intresting. The orbital refinery will have it's own shuttle to tranfer fuel from. One to drop the part count down even more as then the refinery just needs docking ports and a craft to dump it into a low enough orbit without crashing on airless moons or high enough to allow wiggle room for carft coming up from a place with an atmosphere. For a place like Minmus. Thinking of having a parking orbit of 12 km by 12 km for the refinery and having any ship that needs fuel try and get a parking orbit at 29 km so they can still benift some what from the gravity well.

[Mischief]

Best location you can find at the equator. Mine and refine with a populated station. Use KAS to cable up to refueling shuttles. Have 2 shuttles, wheeled to better get to mining station. Have 1 shuttle landed, 1 in orbit. Rotate them out.

Most time and resource efficient, you have a 2nd shuttle for emergencies.

[Jaeleth]

The thing is though, it takes quite a bit of piloting to hit the pad, with MJ's translatron being really handy. It would be a lot easier to land a ship in the area and have a refueling rover with a grabber sticking out the front drive up and grab the ship for refuelling. So, fun that it is, I don't think this will be my preferred solution.

Correct! Even on a minmus landing, wich is easy enough, it is more efficient to forget about precision landing and, rather, land within 1000m and have at least one of the terminals on wheels, either the ship to be refueled or the ground fuel truck/refinery. Like this it is prettier, though

- - - Updated - - -

Have not gotten to aquire them yet in my career mode. But, my ideas are.

Groundside: Have the ore collector seprate from refinery with a rover to transfer ore over and another rover to transfer fuel. With the refinery being on the highest elevation possable close to the mining sight. That way I can keep a lower part count as well as have a place that would require less fuel for the shuttle. Other reason is so I could spam solar panels or what ever I needed to make my craft look kool.

my suggestion: one large, autonmous rover that does it all, medium resolution scan, high resolution scan, drill, store, and refine, with, say, 720 units empty rocket fuel tank and a large monopropellant fuel tank. Use scans to find a good spot, preferably as near to the equator as possible, go there and plant the drill. (This minimizes dockings)

Once you got a good spot, land other fuel tanks near your spot. Now you have plenty of storage and got yourself a base, don't even need to attach the tanks, just make sure you can attach the drill with each of them, when needed.

drill-store-drill-store.....

one or 2 shuttles to take fuel to orbit to refuel larger ships... Only when needed

no kerbals needed

whenever possible pick only low gravity moons for ore drilling, you will waste less fuel diverting to their orbit than going down and up to and from the main planet...

and that's it

This, probably, the most fuel efficient / workload efficient operation, maybe. Although, not very pretty to look at.

Edited May 12, 2015 by Jaeleth

[FreeThinker]

If anyone got some good ideas about realsitic IRSU Processes, please tell me in the KSPI Extended Topic

[Generalstarwars333]

Honestly, for me, a terrestrial refinery would be easier to do since I've never done an orbital rendezvous, or made a circular orbit with a conventional rocket instead of a spaceplane. However, the concept of having an orbital refinery is very appealing to me. Maybe if you had one in geostationary orbit above the mining rig so that you could just have a rocket go straight up and dock with it without making orbit...

[Jett_Quasar]

I build all-in-one starships that have the refinery and drills included. I usually refine all of the ore on the surface then fill my tanks again and finish refining it once I'm back in orbit and my fuel has dropped enough to have room. So I guess you could say I do both. It's a system that works great and allows my ships to go pretty much anywhere.

JR

[Van Disaster]

Karbonite/EPL user ( I'm still doing most things in 0.90 ) - generally I've found if I'm doing surface ops I'll need fuel where I am ( for starters, refuelling cargo vessels carrying mining product... ) so I'll always end up with a surface refinery anyway. I would generally ship Karbonite raw if it's needed elsewhere in large quantities though. EPL ore gets processed on the surface to the intermediate product at the drill, and then shipped.

If you don't have any permanent surface ops - you're just dipping into a planet to grab fuel - then refining in orbit makes sense, but almost anything more complicated ends up being clumsy if you don't have the ability to refine where it is. I've felt that way since Kethane days, nothing has changed with different ISRU mods.

To answer the thread question, both!

[g00bd0g]

I'm pretty sure a ground based refinery is the most efficient, as your tanker can drop from orbit with a minimum of fuel.

These 3 crafts allow you to have full refinery and science capabilities on most bodies in the Kerbin system. The tug can drop and recover the science and refinery trucks to and from orbit and provides for a healthy fuel transfer vehicle as well.

Just drive the truck under the tug and align the docking ports, set the brakes, switch to the tug, and retract the landing gear. Now you are mated! The refinery truck has a claw for refueling random vehicles as well.

The CG of both trucks is aligned both both horizontally and vertically with the docking ports for ease of launching/recovering.

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