[1.12.x] Mk2 Expansion v1.9.1 [update 10/5/21]

[SuicidalInsanity]

Looks like atmCurves don't scale with increased atmospheric density, but then again, no stock engine had need of scaling past 1 atm of pressure. Not sure how I didn't notice this before, but shouldn't be too difficult to fix, just have to extend the atmCurve of all the atmbreating engines; should make them work better in thicker atmospheres of mod planets as well. Whats the densest atmosphere world out there? Tellumo?

[JadeOfMaar]

@SuicidalInsanity Tellumo of GPP is a great option for setting the standard at. It has 10 atmospheres ASL. (Surprisingly, Titanus of New Horizons only reaches 7.6)

Spoiler

And that's just in the realm of playable planets. Kerbal Star Systems has a Venus analogue with actual 90+ atmospheres.

 

Edited October 7, 2017 by JadeOfMaar

[Grand Ship Builder]

You can also just edit Kerbin's atmosphere to be thicker.

[Pixel of Life]

On 7.10.2017 at 6:43 AM, SuicidalInsanity said:

Looks like atmCurves don't scale with increased atmospheric density, but then again, no stock engine had need of scaling past 1 atm of pressure. Not sure how I didn't notice this before, but shouldn't be too difficult to fix, just have to extend the atmCurve of all the atmbreating engines; should make them work better in thicker atmospheres of mod planets as well. Whats the densest atmosphere world out there? Tellumo?

 

5 hours ago, JadeOfMaar said:

@SuicidalInsanity Tellumo of GPP is a great option for setting the standard at. It has 10 atmospheres ASL. (Surprisingly, Titanus of New Horizons only reaches 7.6)

  Reveal hidden contents

And that's just in the realm of playable planets. Kerbal Star Systems has a Venus analogue with actual 90+ atmospheres.

 

Jool's sea level pressure is 15 atm so that might be a better maximum value.

However, setting the max value to the sea level pressure of the densest atmosphere that currently exists is just a temporary solution and you'd have to update the curve every time someone came up with a planet that has a denser atmosphere. It might never happen, but it's still a possibility. Personally, I'd just set it to some insanely high value nobody will ever encounter in the game. Like a thousand or a million atmospheres or something.

Edited October 8, 2017 by CaptainKorhonen

[JadeOfMaar]

17 minutes ago, CaptainKorhonen said:

Jool's sea level pressure is 15 atm so that might be a better maximum value.

However, setting the max value to the sea level pressure of the densest atmosphere that currently exists is just a temporary solution

• I did not consider gas planets. This mod's engines aren't tuned to help you skim (or survive at all) a gas planet.
• That's covered in the spoiler. Here's hoping the M2X dev actually considers an insane high atm like that Venus analog. Skipping the "temporary solution" as you stated.  

[Pixel of Life]

31 minutes ago, JadeOfMaar said:

• I did not consider gas planets. This mod's engines aren't tuned to help you skim (or survive at all) a gas planet.
• That's covered in the spoiler. Here's hoping the M2X dev actually considers an insane high atm like that Venus analog. Skipping the "temporary solution" as you stated.  

True, but there's no reason they couldn't be used in a gas planet's atmosphere. Jool's atmo, for example, is a nice 1 atm and ~130 K at 100 km. If you can get down there without burning up, the engines would work fine.

Besides, a true Kerbal uses parts even for things they weren't designed for! 

Edited October 8, 2017 by CaptainKorhonen

[SuicidalInsanity]

Did some tests with AJE and Gael modded to have Venus' atmosphere, so M2X airbreathing engine atmCurves will be extended to give proper thrust values in denser atmospheres up to and including that of Venus. I see no reason to to extend them for atmospheres beyond 90 bar (9000 kPa), since If someone comes along and makes a super-Venus with an even denser atmosphere, attempting to fly on a world with an atmosphere of only 90 bar is.... interesting suicidal interesting, to say the least. If playing with FAR, your airframe has likely disintegrated as soon as you take off due to aero stresses, and if using stock aero, you'll burn up and die long before you notice your engine's thrust isn't quite as high as it should be at that atmospheric density.

Edited October 9, 2017 by SuicidalInsanity

[swjr-swis]

7 hours ago, SuicidalInsanity said:

I see no reason to to extend them for atmospheres beyond 90 bar (9000 kPa)

Remember that KSP allows us to use engines under water (or other liquids, outside Kerbin/Laythe/Earth). 90 bar (~900m) when deep-diving in a planet's ocean can be reached even before getting to the bottom of Kerbin's water masses.

As a wise person said not too long ago:

On 10/8/2017 at 7:52 AM, CaptainKorhonen said:

a true Kerbal uses parts even for things they weren't designed for! 

 

[SuicidalInsanity]

Built a sub and tested underwater use, and it looks like KSP doesn't model liquid fluid pressure; regardless of depth, it just uses whatever the atmospheric pressure is at sea-level for the engine atmCurve thrust scaling underwater.

Edited October 11, 2017 by SuicidalInsanity

[KerBlitz Kerman]

On 9/9/2017 at 10:11 PM, SuicidalInsanity said:

The M3X inline cockpit doesn't even have an IVA yet, but when it gets finished it will have both a standard and RPM IVA.

 

What about an ASET too?

[SuicidalInsanity]

Alright, M2X has been updated to KSP 1.3.1 - M2X Update 1.8.04. Grab it from SpaceDock or GitHub
Changelog:

Spoiler

KSP 1.3.1 update
-Extends atmCurves for all airbreathing engines; now correctly have higher thrust in denser atmospheres - Eve/Tellumo/etc.
-Model Rework: Afterburn
-Model Rework: Mule
-Model Rework: Vector
-Model Rework: Omni RCS/OMS blister
-Fixes Banshee Fan SFX

 

[flart]

Why did it duplicate IntakeAir to IntakeAtm, and how to merge all IntakeAtm to IntakeAir, or why I should not do that?

[SuicidalInsanity]

IntakeAir is whats used by standard jets, and is not present on Eve/Duna/Jool, which is why jets don't work there. IntakeAtm is present in any atmosphere, and thus allows non-standard atmospheric engines - air-augmented rockets/nuclear jets/lift fans/etc - to function on any atmospheric world. The duplication of resource intakes, so any intake collects both IntakeAir and IntakeAtm, was done so any engine could be used with any intake, as well as allowing a single intake to serve both IntakeAir and IntakeAtm engines at the same time.  Removing IntakeAtm can be done via the removal of GameData/Mk2Expansion/Patches/Mk2X_AtmIntake.cfg, but this WILL cause a bunch of M2X engines to no longer work, unless the InfinitePropellant cheat is used, or you have some other mod with dedicated IntakeAtm intakes.

[Grand Ship Builder]

1 hour ago, SuicidalInsanity said:

dedicated IntakeAtm intakes.

ideas, ideas!

[flart]

@SuicidalInsanity  Does IntakeAtm present on Kerbin?  Then maybe replace IntakeAir to IntakeAtm for all engine ?

[SuicidalInsanity]

The problem with dedicated intakes for IntakeAtm is it constrains vessel design; there's only so many places an intake can be mounted, and being forced to sacrifice some of that to mount intake(s) that only work off-world, and conversely, having standard air intakes that become so much drag inducing deadweight after leaving Kerbin is not optimal. It would also require a bunch of part duplication and further bloating of the part menus.

Relatedly, replacing IntakeAir with IntakeAtm would affect all standard airbreathing jets (e.g. the stock Goliath or Whiplash would now work on Eve or Jool), so that's not going to happen.

[Grand Ship Builder]

18 hours ago, SuicidalInsanity said:

The problem with dedicated intakes for IntakeAtm is it constrains vessel design; there's only so many places an intake can be mounted, and being forced to sacrifice some of that to mount intake(s) that only work off-world, and conversely, having standard air intakes that become so much drag inducing deadweight after leaving Kerbin is not optimal. It would also require a bunch of part duplication and further bloating of the part menus.

Relatedly, replacing IntakeAir with IntakeAtm would affect all standard airbreathing jets (e.g. the stock Goliath or Whiplash would now work on Eve or Jool), so that's not going to happen.

 The only problem with IntakeAtm is that it turns my Engineer report from "Nothing wrong" to "YOU'RE MISSING ALL THIS TOTALLY IMPORTANT STUFF AND YOU'RE NOT USING IT"

[JadeOfMaar]

On 10/25/2017 at 4:10 PM, Grand Ship Builder said:

 The only problem with IntakeAtm is that it turns my Engineer report from "Nothing wrong" to "YOU'RE MISSING ALL THIS TOTALLY IMPORTANT STUFF AND YOU'RE NOT USING IT"

Not a problem. Just learn to ignore it.  

The real problem is, from my experience, engines whose primary propellant is IntakeAtm don't register on KER so it's hard to account for thrust torque between those and other engines or the craft's CoM. (However, RCS Build Aid handles it.) .......Maybe I'm coding my engines poorly.

Edited October 29, 2017 by JadeOfMaar

[KerBlitz Kerman]

On 10/12/2017 at 9:26 PM, SuicidalInsanity said:

Alright, M2X has been updated to KSP 1.3.1 - M2X Update 1.8.04. Grab it from SpaceDock or GitHub
Changelog:

  Reveal hidden contents

KSP 1.3.1 update
-Extends atmCurves for all airbreathing engines; now correctly have higher thrust in denser atmospheres - Eve/Tellumo/etc.
-Model Rework: Afterburn
-Model Rework: Mule
-Model Rework: Vector
-Model Rework: Omni RCS/OMS blister
-Fixes Banshee Fan SFX

 

Can you please fix the misleading OP. Thanks!

[harrisjosh2711]

Whats up with the Thumb.db file that hides itself once installed. I cant even find it if I search for it. But I do know its there, hidden.

Is that file necessary? it wasn't in previous versions. If not how can I delete it if it wont show up? Will it affect anything if I decide to stop using this mod?

Edited November 1, 2017 by harrisjosh2711

[SuicidalInsanity]

I thought I deleted that. To the best of my knowledge the thumb.db is a harmless thumbnail image file that is autogenerated by the winzip utility. I'm not sure why it hides, but it shouldn't have any effect if you stop using the mod. To delete it, go to Folder Options, and under the View tab, uncheck the "Hide protected Operation System files (recommended)" option. Hit Apply, the thumb .db should now be visible and can be deleted. You can then recheck the hide OS files option.

[Grand Ship Builder]

Problem:

 Multiple variant parts don't actually have multiple variants.

Mods: All required

Logs: 

[SuicidalInsanity]

Without logs there is very little I can suggest beyond making sure IFS is up to date.

[harrisjosh2711]

6 hours ago, SuicidalInsanity said:

I thought I deleted that. To the best of my knowledge the thumb.db is a harmless thumbnail image file that is autogenerated by the winzip utility. I'm not sure why it hides, but it shouldn't have any effect if you stop using the mod. To delete it, go to Folder Options, and under the View tab, uncheck the "Hide protected Operation System files (recommended)" option. Hit Apply, the thumb .db should now be visible and can be deleted. You can then recheck the hide OS files option.

cool, thanks. Love the mod by the way- usually one of my must haves.

[Grand Ship Builder]

20 hours ago, SuicidalInsanity said:

Without logs there is very little I can suggest beyond making sure IFS is up to date.

Everything is up to date, except for my KSP at 1.3.0. But I can excuse that because if I update to 1.3.1 my KSP crashes. Updated using CKAN, however.

 

Also, where is the log in? I'm not crashing.