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Space Shuttle Pack for ksp 1.0.4 dev thread

Mike-NZ

By Mike-NZ
in KSP1 Mod Development

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Mike-NZ

Mike-NZ

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IT IS!!!! I couldn't wait to have this back so I decided to fix it up myself. took many hours of studying the files and lots of trial and error.

I'm not sure about FAR, its scary enough as it is in stock, but if anyone's willing to test it for me and let me know of the problems ill try to fix it up.

I think deadly re-entry should work out ok. (Is that even a thing in 1.0.2? as its standard now?)

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liquidhype

liquidhype

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Hey Mike, appreciate you doing this. I started refurbishing the CSS a while back to make it flyable in FAR and more stable with RO(back in 0.90), but eventually had to give up due to other commitments. I'll definitely download your fix and put the shuttle through its paces with FAR in 1.0.2 and report back here on how it handles.

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Mike-NZ

Mike-NZ

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Sounds great, thanks for testing it out for me. if you manage to modify the cfg's let me know of the changes. it seems there is quite a few things not compatible with 1.0.2 yet

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liquidhype

liquidhype

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FEEDBACK UPDATE:

So I've spent about 3 hours testing the shuttle in FAR, and these are my findings.

- TWR too high

- Lack of roll and pitch control on ascent (up to 10km, then it has minor control)

- Lack of pitch control on descent (CoM too far forward)

I find that the CoM is too far forward. I went into the cfg files and moved the CoM back (basically put it on top of CoL) @ 100% LF/OX & mono. What this does is it lets the CoM move forward to where it should be when all tanks are empty of fuel. The way it was before, the CoM was already in front of CoL @ 100% fuel, so when all the fuel was gone, the CoM was so far forward that it basically had no pitch control during re-entry and approach to runway.

The picture shows where the CoM and CoL lift are before I edited the cfg files. As you can see, when fuel = 0% the CoM is so far forward that the shuttle is pretty much a lawn dart at that point.

http://i.imgur.com/BHLRaSU.png"]BHLRaSU.png

It also seems that FAR is not calculating drag properly. After re-entry the vehicle is diving at 40 degrees nose down at close to 300m/s. There is no controlling it at that point and it is not possible to bleed of the speed due to lack of roll, pitch and yaw control. I will have a crack at this issue and post when I find a solution.

Edited by liquidhype
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MrMeeb

MrMeeb

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So far, it looks great! However, with the aim of assisting in fixing bugs until the official release, I'm having some problems:

- The OMS engines don't appear to have any gimbal control, resulting in uncontrollable spin when using them. The left and right engines have trim options but tweaking those has no effect

- (This may have been bought on by tweakscale...I haven't tested without because I'm a bad bug reporter :sticktongue: ) There is a smaller version of the engine mount hidden inside the normal sized one, with tail flap and RCS thrusters sticking out

NjdKBRt.png

Here you can see it on the inside

sXun1Rj.png

-The shuttle flies perfectly up, rolling on its back as it should, but it will start wanting to roll belly down as you continue to ascend higher, until SRB sep then it appears to be happy on its back again. This could be my ascent profile but I'm not sure.

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hieywiey

hieywiey

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-snip-

Could you give those .cfg files as MM cfgs?

Also, I think that the nose, front rcs, and crew cabin parts should all be made into a single part, mainly due to the crew cabin's hatch being blocked by the nose.

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Mike-NZ

Mike-NZ

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@ liguidhype Thanks for your excellent analysis on the shuttle. Could you please copy and paste the modified values here so I can change the cfg's and release a quick patch and inclinclude it in the next full release. I know what you mean about the nose diving

- - - Updated - - -

Thank you MrMeeb, I am aware of the engine mount issue, it shouldnt be doing that but it does. I may have to edit the actual model file. Its something to do with the rescaling. Also I think I did the gimball on the oms engines. If you right click on them it will show. I will check the cfg file to make sure I got it right. I have been flying with sas which helps it. Also with the rolling on ascent it seems the wings want to lift above the heavy fuel tank. I could put the centre of mass of the tank inline with the wings but the main engines will have to point in a new direction which wont look right. I can make the tank a lifting surface and test it out

- - - Updated - - -

@montyben That would be great. But has anyone heard from dragon? It seems people on the origional forum cant get hold of him or he hasnt posted in a while

- - - Updated - - -

@hieyweiw I can do a quick part weld with part welder to see how it works out. It may loose a function or two? Not sure. Will post back. I noticed you can eva out of the cabin but cant get back in. Has anyone tried to get into the airlock in the cargo bay?

Edited by Mike-NZ
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hieywiey

hieywiey

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@hieywiey I can do a quick part weld with part welder to see how it works out. It may loose a function or two? Not sure. Will post back. I noticed you can eva out of the cabin but cant get back in. Has anyone tried to get into the airlock in the cargo bay?

I have, but the hitbox (I know that's not the right technical term for it, but whatever) is very hard to get since the ladder doesn't work. I almost have to lock the kerbal in the cargo bay in order to get him/her back in. About the part welding thing, I only think the nose, crew cabin, and front rcs parts should be put together, as having three separate parts that really don't need to be 3 parts. But don't add ablator to any of the parts as the Shuttle did not use an ablative heatshield, it used a thermal soak shield. The most logical way to implement this in KSP would be to simply make all the parts have a high heat tolerance.

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iDisOrder

iDisOrder

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V1.1.2

Realism changes, yes! Values from the real shuttle

adjusted TWR to a realistic ~1.5 at surface and 3.0 near space

realistic ISP and thrust on main engines and OMS engines. close to realistic burn time of SRB's

fixed engine mount model issue

adjusted COM on the orbitor

fixed gimballs on oms engines (for stability)

adjusted fuel amounts

updated CSS.crft file

I felt like a kid on Christmas morning again when I opened my email to find this updated.

I didn't clean the crust out of my eyes before rushing to DL this

You're making this old guy very happy Mike-NZ!!!

:D

edit: +1 rep you beautiful man!

Edited by iDisOrder
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Mike-NZ

Mike-NZ

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I had a look at the models in a 3d editor and compared them to a stock game one. Its seems the ladder is a solid collision mesh as with the hatch so therefore blocking the actual hatch. I just started learning about these editors last night and will have a go at it this evening

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Mike-NZ

Mike-NZ

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@ cheech420now are you using FAR at all? I havent teated re entry since the update. I assume i havent made sufficient changes to COM. I will now make the fuselage a lifting body to see if it helps and do some actual flight testing.

Thanks for the info.

- - - Updated - - -

Hiw are people finding the update? Remember to overwrite the craft file with the new one.

Also I had to make up some fuel figures which are not realistic because kerban is so small.

In the meantime I am working on the models

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cheech420now

cheech420now

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No FAR just stock aero. I changed the mass of the engine mounts and it helped hut try the lifting body thing. The CoM Needs to be right in front of the CoL.

Edit: Ok i changed the mass of the engine mount from 2 to 8 and it flies much better on launch and reentry

Edited by cheech420now
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FlyMeToTheMinmus

FlyMeToTheMinmus

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I have also experienced problems during reentry, where the shuttle starts torquing out of control around 10 000m; not sure about what lawn darts do but I assume that's what cheech is on about. In my case the shuttle was able to correct itself at about 2000m and flew perfectly to landing from there.

Other issues I've ran into are that first, the OMS seem to be firing quite far off the COM, requiring strong RCS and SAS to handle most manouvering.

Second, the airlock/docking adapter (and anything else for that matter) attaches at about a 30 degree angle to that node in the cargo bay, but this can be fixed with the rotate tool.

Third, I think the SRB staging mechanism seems a little weak now compared to earlier versions, making separation a gamble as to whether or not you lose your wing flaps.

But other than that really good work, I flew the Columbia to 120 km in the SKY mod (which rescales kerbin about 3.4x the original size/ and needed some infinite fuel to complete orbit but that's nothing to do with this), and was able to deploy a satellite and return to the surface with little problem.

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Mike-NZ

Mike-NZ

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@cheech420now thanks for working out the more improved COM. I will add it in tonight.

@ FlyMeToTheMinimus great username btw. Yes the OMS engines point above the COM. I lowered the COM to see if it would help stability and added gimballs to make up for it. I will raise the COM again but I just hope it doesnt cause the top heavy cargobay to spin the orbiter upside down.

That specific node us strange. In the cfg it has 0 rotation but will investigate tonight.

I will add more seperation power to the SRB's but it may just cause them to spin round real fast? I can add an invisible half power seperator to the bottom to help maintain controll of seperation. Will test.

good work with that columbia mission. Wish I had time to have a play. Its so fun

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Mike-NZ

Mike-NZ

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todays update is up. Please excuse my post and update times. Im down in new zealand so our time zones are way off. Which in terms of date and time puts us in the future compared to the US etc

Edited by Mike-NZ
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Jovzin

Jovzin

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I have also experienced problems during reentry, where the shuttle starts torquing out of control around 10 000m; not sure about what lawn darts do but I assume that's what cheech is on about. In my case the shuttle was able to correct itself at about 2000m and flew perfectly to landing from there.

.

Well this problem is somehow long lasting one :(

Even with teh version 0.90 CSS and 0.90 KSP the reentry is a mess.

Hope that with the new version of the shuttle Dragoon will be aable to fix it.

@Mike-NZ : Great thing that you are working on the shuttle for 1.02 KSP.

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