cheech420now Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I have the newest version you gave me on 3 different installs including one with 60 mods and no crash or weirdness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G'th Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Well my main mod install is a huge kitbash of bits and bobs from almost every mod in existence at this rate lol. ModManager applies over 20,000 patches by the end of loading xD so its likely something somewhere gummed up the works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike-NZ Posted June 15, 2015 Author Share Posted June 15, 2015 Well my main mod install is a huge kitbash of bits and bobs from almost every mod in existence at this rate lol. ModManager applies over 20' date='000 patches by the end of loading xD so its likely something somewhere gummed up the works.[/quote']Oh my god! What sorta beast of a computer do you have!- - - Updated - - -I notice with my install I can make alot of aerodymamic changes and start ksp multiple times but unless I delete the part database file before I start the game I wont see changes at all. Anyone else get this? Ksp makes a new one if deleted. It stores drag qubes etc.Can anyone test this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyren Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Just have to find out which of my KSP installs was the clean one...tgere are so many Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyren Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Uhm, in that booster cfg is the atmosphere curve for the thrust missing...it was really handy - - - Updated - - -DIdnt test the normal 5 seg akt booster, but i noticed on booster 2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeast Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Aerodynamics are way off indeed... I don't know man. I have put in litteraly days to get them right for 1.6 and I thought they were spot on.I don't feel like putting in days again while this thing still is in developement just to see them get outdated in a week again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyren Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Yeah, aero control is messed up somewhat. I had no chance to get this thingy into a decent descend (sounds weird huh)...Result: i shot myself back into an suborbital flight....^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daedaelus Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) Aerodynamics are way off indeed... I don't know man. I have put in literally days to get them right for 1.6 and I thought they were spot on.I don't feel like putting in days again while this thing still is in development just to see them get outdated in a week again.I agree with Jeast, the areo model in the last version before the model updates actually worked quite well. It might just be worth using those again. The shuttle itself is a hard aircraft to fly even in real life it was a flying brick with no atmospheric engines for a 2nd try. Also the shuttle had many landing zones just in-case there where mistakes made. In KSP we have 2 divided by water so you only get one chance. The only areo (if this counts) i saw that needed some love was the SRB separation which looks to be improved in this version. As the old saying goes "If it aint broke don't fix it".Due to some google drive updates and dropbox keeping the version numbers in line is a bit rough im not sure what version i have (before today's) that had the good areo model but ill be glad to provide in a PM if needed. It might be worth setting up a github for this so we can better keep track of the version and changes. Edited June 15, 2015 by daedaelus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeast Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) Mike, please let me do some organization on the mod. I feel like giving up on this but I would hate to do so. It has a lot of potential. Cant we go a bit slower and add stuff step by step while continually testing the FM?I think we all agree release 1.6 is the most stable and a good default/fallback version. Since 1.6 Mike added a lot of great stuff but these also changed a lot on the 1.6 aero model. I think you really have to add new stuff gradually and testing yourself after every single change you make if it still flies as it should. If you test it yourself there is little change that when you release something/ send out links for other testers, they are having a lot of problems and this tackles a lot of potential stress. In a nutshell. Use 1.6 as a basis and add stuff gradually from there. Keeping track of versions using my mini-AVC implement so that we know everyone is on the same version. Edited June 15, 2015 by Jeast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daedaelus Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Mike, please let me do some organization on the mod. I feel like giving up on this but I would hate to do so. It has a lot of potential. Cant we go a bit slower and add stuff step by step while continually testing the FM?I think we all agree release 1.6 is the most stable and a good default/fallback version. Since 1.6 Mike added a lot of great stuff but these also changed a lot on the 1.6 aero model. I think you really have to add new stuff gradually and testing yourself after every single change you make if it still flies as it should. If you test it yourself there is little change that when you release something/ send out links for other testers, they are having a lot of problems and this tackles a lot of potential stress. In a nutshell. Use 1.6 as a basis and add stuff gradually from there. Keeping track of versions using my mini-AVC implement so that we know everyone is on the same version.For the record as a tester im glad to provide feedback. I keep backups of working versions and use a isolated install with only a few necessary mods. If it does not work then the feedback is posted and in no way would i even consider it pressure or an obligation. As a tester i understand exactly what im being given the mod for. To test and report issues. I cant speak for others but lets also not forget that sometimes mods can have unforeseen issues on other peoples setups or conflict with other mods that one single person (with a single set of hardware and game config). This cant be discovered without a defined testing team with diverse setups.I do not see anyone that needs to feel pressured. This is a development thread not a release thread. Nobody should have any expectations of this mod until it hits the "release" phase. The front page still has 1.6 so im not seeing anything being rushed to the public. AVC puts everyone on the next version when this is a dev release. I understand this for a public release but at this point either a github with changes could record progress or simply limit it to people wanting to test and report and know this could include possible broken versions. One of the biggest issues i have testing the mod is not knowing what was changed so i can try and replicate issues or push new changes to the limit and report back.If people need a 100% stable finished shuttle right now, there are plenty of stocklike versions, 1.6 works well and of course lets not forget KSO. They also should not be on the development forums looking for stable finished releases.KSP was in early access for along time and i think people had the same understanding that things may not work properly the first time. But most of the die hard KSP fans knew it was early access so we understood it, reported it to the devs and progress was made each version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeast Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) It is a dev thread but that doesnt mean to not be organized. If you go gradually and make sure everything that is done already keeps on working, so version control is a must, saves you a lot of time and frustration and keeps everything clear. Dont forget we are working on this with multiple people at the same time. There must be some kind of organization to get things managed right. The way it is going now only works on projects where only one person is working on. For example If I post something and someone else posts something other 5 minutes later not including the change I made or rendering my change invalid, thats counter productive. Even when you look at this as early acces, compare it to Steam early acces. You can only download one version so only test one version so the input you give is clearly based on that one version and all the devs are clearly working on that same one version. I cannot understand how one can argue against this.Mike, let me setup a Github. Are you okay with that? Edited June 15, 2015 by Jeast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G'th Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 While I agree with Jeast on the whole organization bit, I don't necessarily think its a bad thing to continually add on to the mod at the rate it is. I do however question the necessity of combining the wings and control surfaces into one solid model, as opposed to keeping them separate or perhaps going with something that made a bit more sense. (such as combining the wings with the cargo bay and leaving the CS's as separate parts) To me, it doesn't seem as if that sort of thing needed to be touched on to the degree it was. While aero still needed tweaking, throwing out the old system for a new one and then not taking the new system to a more complete state wasn't a good idea imo. Granted, some of us were pushing to test the new bits that were added along with it, so may be some of us testers are to blame, but even so.That being said though, the biggest issue I see with you guys on the developer side of things is just a lack of teamwork. Mike is spearheading forward like a bat out of hell with jeast and whoever else is helping (i'm not quite sure who else is working on it at this point) are just kind of being left in the dust there.What I would suggest (even though it may be difficult, as it seems some of you guys appear to be in different time zones) is to set up a Github like Jeast is suggesting, but to also communicate more on test releases. I believe all the contributing developers should do a huddle before pushing out a test release. This way, everyone can verify what changes are being pushed through, which will in turn help speed along development as bigger issues like broken aero are seen earlier and perhaps fixed before the next release, and will help keep everyone on track with whats coming and going from the mod, as well as give a clearer timeline for development. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeast Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 While I agree with Jeast on the whole organization bit' date=' I don't necessarily think its a bad thing to continually add on to the mod at the rate it is. I do however question the necessity of combining the wings and control surfaces into one solid model, as opposed to keeping them separate or perhaps going with something that made a bit more sense. (such as combining the wings with the cargo bay and leaving the CS's as separate parts) To me, it doesn't seem as if that sort of thing needed to be touched on to the degree it was. While aero still needed tweaking, throwing out the old system for a new one and then not taking the new system to a more complete state wasn't a good idea imo. Granted, some of us were pushing to test the new bits that were added along with it, so may be some of us testers are to blame, but even so.That being said though, the biggest issue I see with you guys on the developer side of things is just a lack of teamwork. Mike is spearheading forward like a bat out of hell with jeast and whoever else is helping (i'm not quite sure who else is working on it at this point) are just kind of being left in the dust there.What I would suggest (even though it may be difficult, as it seems some of you guys appear to be in different time zones) is to set up a Github like Jeast is suggesting, but to also communicate more on test releases. I believe all the contributing developers should do a huddle before pushing out a test release. This way, everyone can verify what changes are being pushed through, which will in turn help speed along development as bigger issues like broken aero are seen earlier and perhaps fixed before the next release, and will help keep everyone on track with whats coming and going from the mod, as well as give a clearer timeline for development.[/quote']Exactly my thoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daedaelus Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Github would definitely improve the confusion and lets face it this is what many other modders do. KSO for example still is officially at .90 but they are github developing and not putting a public release outside of github until they are finished.As for merging parts im not sure why we need to do this. Some people change the shuttle to their specs. For example on my "fun" 1.6 gaming version i have added jet engines (like the buran) so i can have a easier time landing. I also add scansat stuff and whatever else my mind creates. This game is like having unlimited access to a hobby shop model plane isle. People are going to mix and match and do what they want to do. As im not sure the control surface would be the best example of this but engines for example. Maybe someone decides to change them? The mod is not complicated to build so going back to my earlier post. If it aint broke don't fix it.To be fair Mike has not posted yet so i would imagine hes at work or not around at the moment. When he sees this thread im sure hes going to feel a bit blasted but i think this (test release) is getting a little blown out of proportion it was a test release through those who specifically asked for it. A few changes where made that dident work out. Im sure it will be corrected but hes yet to respond. He also should not need to defend himself as this is ultimately his project right now. Hes been given a suggestion now its up to him if he wants to roll with it. This mod has came along way in a very short time under his supervision so he deserves some credit. Im sure hes got a lot on his plate not including real life and work. If anyone is getting pressured at the moment it is him as this is the 2nd time this mod has been revived. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike-NZ Posted June 15, 2015 Author Share Posted June 15, 2015 Oh my god I come back and everything has exploded. I release a couple of new features with a 5 min aero job to make the parts work, undercover to a few testers and now its the end of the world. Relax guys . Parts test. I still have the working aero files. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daedaelus Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Oh my god I come back and everything has exploded. I release a couple of new features with a 5 min aero job to make the parts work, undercover to a few testers and now its the end of the world. Relax guys . Parts test. I still have the working aero files.It is getting blown out of proportion as i said in my earlier post Mike your doing a great job but it seems a few of your dev team had some concerns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike-NZ Posted June 15, 2015 Author Share Posted June 15, 2015 the stable 1.6 version is on the first page for those who are worried.I understand how you feel about the hard work you put in Jeast, its gotta be the best thing done so far. I hope I can atleast match it with the new setup (I believed more advanced aero model could make it more realistic).if not I will revert. but let me give it a go...anyway time for me to get to work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jovzin Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Mike if you can send me those landing gears I would be verfy thankful. I can create them but well the time now is even more limited. I am just going to the hospital to get my wife and 3 weeks old daughter and take them home. So now my free time will be mainly from 2100 gmt+1 to 2400 gmt+1 . will try to use it well to finish the textures for the new shuttle. BTW I was thinking if you guys Mike and Dragoon can somehow get together and join forces. Or not possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeast Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 (edited) the stable 1.6 version is on the first page for those who are worried.I understand how you feel about the hard work you put in Jeast, its gotta be the best thing done so far. I hope I can atleast match it with the new setup (I believed more advanced aero model could make it more realistic).if not I will revert. but let me give it a go...anyway time for me to get to workOkay. You did not comment on the Github idea? What do you think about that? It will make it very easy to keep track of changes and versioning. It wil also make it a lot!! easier to work together with more devs on the same project.I have made an example page so you can see how it works. Let me know what you think of it.https://github.com/Jeast85/CSS-unofficialBTW we are not acting like its the end of the world, but why not get a bit more organized? You have given a reaction to what was said on organization. If you just say: I don't want it,than thats okay and Ill shut up about it. Edited June 15, 2015 by Jeast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike-NZ Posted June 15, 2015 Author Share Posted June 15, 2015 yes sorry my focus is too much on other things.to be honest I use github a lot so to say no would be silly. its a good idea.im working on more FS tweaks and moving/orientating lift codes and doing correct measurements. let me try and if no good I will revert.as for personal life comments, its crazy. long job hours to pay bills and mortgage alone, days with no sleep and days of sleep. but I guess I can do it im still in my 20's lolI like a challenge and this is a good one sometimesI need to reread these comments properly...anyway yeah let me go at it for a few hours and report again- - - Updated - - -Mike if you can send me those landing gears I would be verfy thankful. I can create them but well the time now is even more limited. I am just going to the hospital to get my wife and 3 weeks old daughter and take them home. So now my free time will be mainly from 2100 gmt+1 to 2400 gmt+1 . will try to use it well to finish the textures for the new shuttle. BTW I was thinking if you guys Mike and Dragoon can somehow get together and join forces. Or not possible?good luck with everything over there! you sound busy...yes I will organize the wheels and upload when I canlast I heard from dragon he didn't need help but I can pm him again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike-NZ Posted June 15, 2015 Author Share Posted June 15, 2015 ok FS adjustments do seem to be working, BUT I think I found a solution with some coding to get Jeasts aero work AND have the parts as one piece, which is important for me to make my one piece orbiter functional. I will focus on that now and have a test release in a few hours.also will work on the boosters. looking for a way to eliminate dependencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeast Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Sounds good!How about this: you just go on doing how you are doing things now, and I organize things on Github paralel? I know essentially these are 2 different projects but I wil continually try to merge your updates. Maybe the best of both worlds. You dont have to pay any atention and just keep on doing things at the rate youre doing now, and I keep the people who desire a little bit more structure happy. Is that an idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike-NZ Posted June 15, 2015 Author Share Posted June 15, 2015 2 projects?...hmmm I reset your aero work with the one piece wings and tail and have been flying it. its much the same as before.also boosters are back to normal for now. I will do private testing and just ask who wants to test changes separately Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheech420now Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I say go back to the old aero settings. It flew perfect. If you want to make a one piece shuttle then make the Crew Cabin, Cargo Bay, and Engine Mount one piece but leave the wings and tail like they were. That would eliminate the problems. This is just my 2 cents BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike-NZ Posted June 15, 2015 Author Share Posted June 15, 2015 its working it just has a combined cfg (and model obviously)but here is the latest update with the OLD wings and aero but contains the working one piece tail (and old)maybe put this on github?https://www.dropbox.com/s/w04beeqai2ltz0m/CSS%20full%20update%207_PRE_2.zip?dl=0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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