The Ultimate Jool 5 Challenge - 1.0 to 1.3

[Right]

Greetings! Quick Q: For the low mass sub challenge, is BetterTimeWarp an acceptable mod? It adds no vessel functionality, just gives more precise control over time warping.

[sdj64]

[quote name='Kaboom!']Should I do this? After returning the biggest thing I have done was a Mun base.
Also, is refueling with STOCK parts in a normal category or a sub-category? IMO, it should count as a regular category.[/QUOTE]
Stock mining is in the ISRU category. You can also send a refueling ship once on the other levels. The reason for the separate category is while it does not remove the challenge, ISRU is a very different kind of challenge than doing it without refueling. It doesn't make those people any less of a winner since the only criteria for "winning" is mass on the low-mass challenge.

[quote name='CommanderSpock']Is tweakscale okay?[/QUOTE]
Tweakscale is not allowed. It can make better engines (a big engine tweaked down is better than a small engine that isn't scaled) and makes it hard to judge the size of craft in entries.

[quote name='Right']Greetings! Quick Q: For the low mass sub challenge, is BetterTimeWarp an acceptable mod? It adds no vessel functionality, just gives more precise control over time warping.[/QUOTE]
Yes, it's fine. "Any helpful mod is allowed which doesn't add parts and doesn't change the physics."

[SpaceplaneAddict]

Can I have mapsats in orbit around the Jool system moons prior to the mission?

EDIT: Also, what about Mk2 Stockalike Expansion?

EDIT EDIT: So, any word on using infrastructure put in place beforehand? Edited November 27, 2015 by SpaceplaneAddict

[parzr]

On 11/22/2015, 3:29:56, SpaceplaneAddict said:

Can I have mapsats in orbit around the Jool system moons prior to the mission?

EDIT: Also, what about Mk2 Stockalike Expansion?

EDIT EDIT: So, any word on using infrastructure put in place beforehand?

There is no restriction to infrastructure beforehand except fuel; and that only changes what level you would complete in.

[sdj64]

I have finally finished my grand tour!  After 42 years in space and 2 months real life time, the crew returns home to complete the first ever grand tour without refueling on KSP 1.0.

A detailed description can be found in the mission reports thread:  http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/121460-origin-grand-tour-stock-no-refueling-no-isru-finished/#comment-2301131

Here's a summary for the Jool 5:

- Started on KSP 1.0.4, updated to 1.0.5 before the Duna landing.

- Mods used: KER, Stock bug fixes, Better Timewarp, Precise Node

- Single launch, no refueling, no ISRU

- 5 crew lived in a cupola and a hitchhiker for the journey

- Mothership had about 8000 dV, KER didn't do too well with the many stages.

- Ion lander had 7600 dV fully fueled with a Kerbal in the seat.  It had the TWR and power generation to do every non-atmospheric planet closer than Dres.  It also landed on Pol with battery power.

- LF lander had 2300 dV fully fueled with a Kerbal in the seat.  It landed on the other moons and planets (excluding Eve), with dockable boosters for Tylo and Laythe.

- Eve lander had about 7000 dV.  It can make it to orbit if it lands at about 5500 meters or above, and has wings to glide down to a mountaintop.

 

Pictures!

 

 

 

 

 

On 11/22/2015, 3:29:56, SpaceplaneAddict said:

Can I have mapsats in orbit around the Jool system moons prior to the mission?

EDIT: Also, what about Mk2 Stockalike Expansion?

EDIT EDIT: So, any word on using infrastructure put in place beforehand?

Yes, you can have mapsats in place as long as you don't transfer fuel from them to your ship.  You can also use pre-placed ore scanning satellites on the ISRU level.  Can you provide a link to the Mk2 expansion mod?

[SpaceplaneAddict]

Mk2 Stockalike Expansion?

[parzr]

Thats some crazy stuff sdj64.

 

I like the Eve gliding most. It all looked like a logistics and planing nightmare.

[sdj64]

On 11/30/2015, 12:32:49, SpaceplaneAddict said:

Mk2 Stockalike Expansion?

 

Thanks for the link.  There are a few Mk2 expansions that have more or less parts and I didn't know at first which one you were talking about.  I'm worried about the thermal turbojet and the nuclear reactor being overpowered.  Everything else looks within reasonable range of stock performance.  Though it's probably best to avoid banning specific parts, I know that spaceplanes are your thing so I'll let you use it as long as you don't use the thermal turbojet or nuclear reactor.

 

New forum software is unneccessarily hard to use and broke some things.  I cleaned up the main post by copy-pasting from Notepad and clarifying a few rules, but the links to previous submissions are still broken.  I'll go back and re-link everything soon.

[problemecium]

Okay so I have a new question, but I can't guarantee it's not anything that's been asked before, in which case I apologize in advance. Anyway.

Based on my understanding of the rules, as long as the "main" ship is a single ship at the time it leaves Kerbin's SOI, it's valid. So hypothetically one could put a great misshapen Katamari of ships at the edge of Kerbin's SOI, nudge it out, and then break it up and fly all the pieces there as a flotilla. No, I don't plan to do this.

But while preparing my departure, I realized, hey, I can save delta-V if I take another ship and push Kidonia to an escape trajectory. So is this okay, or does the main ship have to start its voyage from a stable orbit? And if so, how eccentric an orbit is permissible (i.e. can it be 70x50000000km)?
EDIT: Okay so this is really a staging question. Can I ditch stages while still in Kerbin's SOI? I presume so but I don't want to find myself cheating.

Edited December 6, 2015 by parameciumkid
clarifications. Incidentally, I hate the new editor, but that's another story.

[iLikeRovers]

Quote

4. Any number of launches are allowed to assemble the ship in Kerbin orbit. All launches must be flown, no HyperEdit!
5. There's funding for one main ship only so all the crew, lander(s) and other stuff has to go to Jool as one big ship.

I read this as: you can assemble all your pieces into one mother ship in Kerbin SOI, go in one piece to Jool SOI, then split up or do what you need to achieve the mission inside Jool's SOI.

As for dumping stages in Kerbin SOI, I'm pretty sure you can do that. I did.  If it was otherwise I think you would be talking about a SSTJ ship.

[sdj64]

On 12/6/2015, 4:21:49, parameciumkid said:

Okay so I have a new question, but I can't guarantee it's not anything that's been asked before, in which case I apologize in advance. Anyway.

Based on my understanding of the rules, as long as the "main" ship is a single ship at the time it leaves Kerbin's SOI, it's valid. So hypothetically one could put a great misshapen Katamari of ships at the edge of Kerbin's SOI, nudge it out, and then break it up and fly all the pieces there as a flotilla. No, I don't plan to do this.

But while preparing my departure, I realized, hey, I can save delta-V if I take another ship and push Kidonia to an escape trajectory. So is this okay, or does the main ship have to start its voyage from a stable orbit? And if so, how eccentric an orbit is permissible (i.e. can it be 70x50000000km)?
EDIT: Okay so this is really a staging question. Can I ditch stages while still in Kerbin's SOI? I presume so but I don't want to find myself cheating.

I was having problems posting here, does this work?

Edit: okay it works.  As ILikeRovers said, you can drop stages after you leave Kerbin and before you get to Jool but if you do, the dropped stages can't go back and interact again with the mission.  You can do pretty much whatever you want with staging or pushing before you leave Kerbin SOI.

The main ship has to be one ship both when it leaves Kerbin SOI and when it enters Jool SOI.  It does not have to be the same exact ship (as in, you can drop parts on the way or move stuff around).

Edited December 7, 2015 by sdj64

[problemecium]

^ That second part is actually news to me. I hadn't planned on splitting up the ship ahead of time, but I had briefly considered it due to severe part count lag. I guess I can still split it up high in Jool's SOI if I want. I'll figure it out when I get there :\

[cephalo]

I have actually made a couple of attempts at this that are too embarrassing to talk about, but someone suggested I use hyperedit to test some of my craft before the real attempt. Obviously hyperedit is not allowed on the real mission, but is it enough to simply not use it then or should I uninstall it first?

[SpaceplaneAddict]

Better uninstall it before the real mission, don't want any doubt here

[Claw]

Well, I'm not sure if I'm really ready to post or not...but I figure I might as well let people know what kind of insanity I'm planning.

For those of you familiar with my Elcano missions, I'm planning a combined Jool-5 and Elcano mission set. I'm setting out to circumnavigate all five Joolian moons in one big mission. Though I've already completed an Elcano of Laythe, I figure I'm forced to do it again if I want to claim the title of JoolCano-5.

Here's the start of the Jool-5 relevant posts. If you want to step back a little more to the philosophy, that's here in the mission announcement. The first full mission post isn't up yet, but I did do a shakedown run inside Kerbin's SOI and have posted a few pictures. Next post will be the launch and transit to Jool.  

 

[SpaceplaneAddict]

Isn't this classified as "your completey eligible for the insanity ward?"

[Claw]

@SpaceplaneAddict Quite possibly.  (Hopefully I can get these mission reports posted faster!)

[Claw]

Update for my JoolCano-5 mission. The mission start post is finally up, and the crew has arrived safely in Laythe orbit. It covers from Launch, through Taylo and Laythe gravity assists, a powered Laythe capture, and some gentle aerobraking. No landings posted yet (though I have several done). Hopefully more updates soon^tm!

Turns out the ship was simply too big to do real aerobraking. For some reason the LV-N at the core of the ship (not active) would get hot and explode, causing the rest of the ship to separate. The Mk3 crew cabin would also get very hot, but the engine would explode first, despite being at the core of the ship and behind several heat shields.

Anyway, turns out I had extra fuel left over from launch, so I was able to complete a powered capture at Laythe to a highly elliptical orbit, then some gentle aerobraking to bring the orbit down.

[Mikki]

On 7.12.2015, 22:57:05, sdj64 said:

  ...As ILikeRovers said, you can drop stages after you leave Kerbin and before you get to Jool but if you do, the dropped stages can't go back and interact again with the mission.  You can do pretty much whatever you want with staging or pushing before you leave Kerbin SOI. ...

Okay, i am in again!

These words gave me just the final idea, after my first failed attempt  i start working on a new.
Great challenge!

[Claw]

First Joolian moon is complete. I've posted the mission report for my trip to Pol. It includes pictures for the Elcano challenge, but I'm posting the Jool-5 albums below (including the trip to Jool).

 

Launch through arrival at Jool, in orbit around Laythe.

 

 

The crew departs for Pol.

 

 

And returning from Pol back to the mothership around Laythe.

 

[SpaceplaneAddict]

Oh wise ones of the Jool-5, inspire me with your majestic mother ships and lander designs...

[Crazy-Engineer]

If im using Remote tech mod then can i set up the sats before doing the challenge? 

[SpaceplaneAddict]

6 hours ago, Crazy-Engineer said:

If im using Remote tech mod then can i set up the sats before doing the challenge? 

 

On 11/30/2015 at 8:53 AM, sdj64 said:

Yes, you can have mapsats in place as long as you don't transfer fuel from them to your ship.  You can also use pre-placed ore scanning satellites on the ISRU level.

So yeah

[Crazy-Engineer]

Also can i re-purpose the mothership's engine for a lander?
and can 3 different kerbals land on each planet/moon?
-sorry if im askin 2 many qns (im often told so)

[sdj64]

3 hours ago, Crazy-Engineer said:

Also can i re-purpose the mothership's engine for a lander?
and can 3 different kerbals land on each planet/moon?
-sorry if im askin 2 many qns (im often told so)

Yes you can.  The engine reuse is a creative solution!  I think some low-mass entries used that design to save on engine weight.  3 Kerbals on each moon will still count for Level 2, there's no penalty for going above and beyond.  (Also if you have 5 kerbals on the mission and each lands on at least one moon it will count for Level 3 also).