The Ultimate Jool 5 Challenge - 1.0 to 1.3

[Calvingamr]

On 22.8.2016 at 7:22 PM, sdj64 said:

I looked at Taurus HCV and it is now allowed.  I didn't think it was updated to the most recent version of KSP but it is fairly balanced to modern stock parts.

In 0.25 my mission took a little over 6 Kerbin years.  YMMV, especially if you use gravity assists.

So here's what I got so far. Its a Mothership with a crap ton of dV. Just in case, as a backup. And I decided to deactivate TAC Life Support because it costs me around 4k dV for 17 years of food (i need that much, belive me). And there's still no Lathe or Tylo Lander. Also the return crafts will be sent up and docked after the mothership reaches Kerbin Parking Orbit. And yes there is a Hitchhiker Crew Module for every single Kerbal and his own lander docked next to it

Edited November 17, 2016 by Calvingamr
edited because I'm stupid and missspell misspel

[septemberWaves]

Is Mk3 expansion permitted? There is one part that I would like to use from that mod, entirely for aesthetic purposes. It's the observation window on the left of this screenshot:

http://imgur.com/oncfeVA

All of those tanks are structural due to Interstellar Fuel Switch; there's no fuel in that module so it doesn't violate clipping rules. Mk3 expansion seems to be pretty well stock-balanced, but in any case I only want that part and only for aesthetics.

Actually, I'd also like to know if Mk2 expansion is allowed. The reason is because the Mk2 docking ports are useful for forcing propulsion modules to connect in the correct direction with zero error.

---

Here is the vessel that I am planning to use, assuming those two parts are acceptable.

http://imgur.com/1KTErpc

Without cargo, it's 700 tonnes and 239 parts. Most of those parts are structural, and several of the utilitarian aspects (such as several of the docking ports) will not actually be used for the Jool 5 mission (the transport modules are designed for versatility, and will be able to be used in future missions).

Edited August 24, 2016 by eloquentJane

[JacobJHC]

Guess who now has a functional Eve lander? (Me) It will still be a while before my unrefueled grand tour though, I still have an Eeloo mission in progress, A Trojan moon to send to Gilly and a Dres SSTO waiting for it's maiden launch but the mission is now in it's final stages of planning. Wish me Luck..

Edited August 25, 2016 by JacobJHC

[Calvingamr]

@sdj64 hey ist the cryo engines mod allowed? I would like to use it to replicate the ARES 1 to lauch the crew into orbit.

[DaMachinator]

On 8/24/2016 at 8:34 AM, eloquentJane said:

Actually, I'd also like to know if Mk2 expansion is allowed. The reason is because the Mk2 docking ports are useful for forcing propulsion modules to connect in the correct direction with zero error.

Or you can use Modular Rocket Systems docking lights (which have a single red light to indicate direction) and DPAI to do it by hand.

[septemberWaves]

18 minutes ago, DaMachinator said:

Or you can use Modular Rocket Systems docking lights (which have a single red light to indicate direction) and DPAI to do it by hand.

The problem is there's still the potential for a slight error in direction, which can lead to massive losses on long burns. If the standard circular ports were good enough for this purpose, I'd rely on MechJeb for a perfect alignment (MechJeb's docking autopilot is usually good but it still doesn't have the zero error that I need).

[Calvingamr]

9 hours ago, eloquentJane said:

The problem is there's still the potential for a slight error in direction, which can lead to massive losses on long burns. If the standard circular ports were good enough for this purpose, I'd rely on MechJeb for a perfect alignment (MechJeb's docking autopilot is usually good but it still doesn't have the zero error that I need).

Why don't use two docking ports?

[septemberWaves]

15 minutes ago, Calvingamr said:

Why don't use two docking ports?

I could, and I will do that if Mk2 expansion remains banned. But the number of extra parts (I have several propulsion modules and the current docking mounts would have to be altered quite drastically) is somewhat significant considering it's already over 200 parts without any of the cargo (landers and spare fuel) and my computer can only just run the game with all the mods I'm using. Also, I'd have to spend a while altering the Phasma-class propulsion modules so that they still look good.

[Aegolius13]

I am partway through a Jool 5, but I've clipped one RTG each into two pods for aesthetic reasons. I also did not have the resources window open for all screenshots.

Is this permitted, or do I need to start over?

[Calvingamr]

11 hours ago, eloquentJane said:

I could, and I will do that if Mk2 expansion remains banned. But the number of extra parts (I have several propulsion modules and the current docking mounts would have to be altered quite drastically) is somewhat significant considering it's already over 200 parts without any of the cargo (landers and spare fuel) and my computer can only just run the game with all the mods I'm using. Also, I'd have to spend a while altering the Phasma-class propulsion modules so that they still look good.

Well why don' just send

it all up single launch (partially by the ships main propulsion and a few boosters) and then refuel it. I managed to pull that off with my Atlas too ( wery first post on this page)

Edited August 27, 2016 by Calvingamr

[septemberWaves]

@Calvingamr I really do not have the patience for a launch at 1fps. Which is what it would be if I were to attempt to launch the entire completed vessel even without fuel, because there's still quite a large mass of structural parts and the part count is just too much for a single launch. Also, figuring out a launch system that can lift the transport nicely would probably take me longer than the actual Jool 5 mission.

[Calvingamr]

49 minutes ago, eloquentJane said:

@Calvingamr I really do not have the patience for a launch at 1fps. Which is what it would be if I were to attempt to launch the entire completed vessel even without fuel, because there's still quite a large mass of structural parts and the part count is just too much for a single launch. Also, figuring out a launch system that can lift the transport nicely would probably take me longer than the actual Jool 5 mission.

Hmmmm. maybe send up the drive/propulsion section all-in-one or would that still be to much?

Edited August 27, 2016 by Calvingamr

[septemberWaves]

26 minutes ago, Calvingamr said:

Hmmmm. maybe send up the drive/propulsion section all-in-one or would that still be to much?

That's doable. Not ideal, but doable. I'm still going to await a response about mk2 and mk3 expansion though.

[Calvingamr]

2 minutes ago, eloquentJane said:

That's doable. Not ideal, but doable. I'm still going to await a response about mk2 and mk3 expansion though.

That's probably the best way to do it.

And I'm gonna wait to see if the cryogenic engines are allowed before launching the crew up with one.

[sdj64]

On 8/24/2016 at 8:34 AM, eloquentJane said:

Is Mk3 expansion permitted? There is one part that I would like to use from that mod, entirely for aesthetic purposes. It's the observation window on the left of this screenshot:

http://imgur.com/oncfeVA

All of those tanks are structural due to Interstellar Fuel Switch; there's no fuel in that module so it doesn't violate clipping rules. Mk3 expansion seems to be pretty well stock-balanced, but in any case I only want that part and only for aesthetics.

Actually, I'd also like to know if Mk2 expansion is allowed. The reason is because the Mk2 docking ports are useful for forcing propulsion modules to connect in the correct direction with zero error.

---

Here is the vessel that I am planning to use, assuming those two parts are acceptable.

http://imgur.com/1KTErpc

Without cargo, it's 700 tonnes and 239 parts. Most of those parts are structural, and several of the utilitarian aspects (such as several of the docking ports) will not actually be used for the Jool 5 mission (the transport modules are designed for versatility, and will be able to be used in future missions).

Both mods contain questionable parts and should probably not be permitted.  I don't like to ban things on a part-for-part basis, but the parts you used are perfectly fine.  If you already have the vessel built/designed you can continue with the mission and it will be allowed.

On 8/26/2016 at 5:33 AM, Calvingamr said:

@sdj64 hey ist the cryo engines mod allowed? I would like to use it to replicate the ARES 1 to lauch the crew into orbit.

Cryo engines is not allowed, for the much greater than stock ISPs.

21 hours ago, Aegolius13 said:

I am partway through a Jool 5, but I've clipped one RTG each into two pods for aesthetic reasons. I also did not have the resources window open for all screenshots.

Is this permitted, or do I need to start over?

That is fine, all very minor things.  Most people don't have the resource window open but it's usually not hard to verify there was no cheating.  I would be suspicious if, for example, an active engine jumps from low fuel to high (by unlocking a tank or pumping fuel around) from one shot to the next.  Without the resource window showing total fuel, or another window such as KER showing craft mass, it appears as if the fuel was cheated in.

[Benji13]

Are you allowed to use the mechjeb auto pilot for ascent?

[Aegolius13]

On 8/27/2016 at 2:38 PM, sdj64 said:

That is fine, all very minor things.  Most people don't have the resource window open but it's usually not hard to verify there was no cheating.  I would be suspicious if, for example, an active engine jumps from low fuel to high (by unlocking a tank or pumping fuel around) from one shot to the next.  Without the resource window showing total fuel, or another window such as KER showing craft mass, it appears as if the fuel was cheated in.

Awesome!  Then, without further ado, I present my mission report at:

Or skip to the album at:

http://imgur.com/a/OyaGo

 

Hopefully everything else fits the requirements!  

[sdj64]

@Aegolius13 Congratulations, you have completed the Jool 5 Challenge on Level 1!  Your landers were very capable, and you did a great job reducing the part count of your mission.  I also liked the additional constraints you held yourself to, sort of like a level 1.5.

 

@Benji13 yes you can use Mechjeb including any autopilots.  Don't know why the callout isn't working since it just worked earlier in the post?

[Aegolius13]

45 minutes ago, sdj64 said:

Congratulations, you have completed the Jool 5 Challenge on Level 1!  Your landers were very capable, and you did a great job reducing the part count of your mission.  I also liked the additional constraints you held yourself to, sort of like a level 1.5.

Sweet!  Thanks much for running this whole show.

Kinda forgot about levels... (wheels turning)... bet I could hit Level 3 by bringing back the ion lander.  Though it might be more fun to design something from scratch...

[Kertech]

Finally started doing Jool 5 related stuff, though probably a long time until the mission is actually done.

Will post again when I start preparing the voyage.

[Nefrums]

Have anyone tried doing this mission with a scaled up Kerbol system?  

Like KScale2 or the even bigger versions.

 

[Ripper2900]

Here's my Jool-5 entry:

S.M.A.C.K.E.R  -  Stacked, Modular, All Chemically-powered Kerbal Exploration Rocket

It goes in the 2nd level with ISRU category

The mission consists of a Basic Lander, built around a Mk-2 Lander can and a small ISRU.
Boosters, aerodynamics and fueltank modules attaches via top- and bottom-mounted large dockingports, so the lander can be configured for the different moons of Jool. This also meant that all engines needs to be built in pods, surrounding the main stack, so they can fire past the module below. They aren't very aerodynamic, so a conical nose is included.
I also brought four deployable orbital ore-scanner probes, so i wouldn't have to bring the entire ship into a polar orbit and back to locate ore.

Everything worked out - not everything as i had planned though (the Tylo landing in particular) but the modular build of the ship saved me more than once, and Bob and Bill are happily back on Kerbin.

Here's the full album with descriptions:
http://imgur.com/a/9M99T

Additional info:
- Which game versions did you use?
   v1.1.3.1289
- What mods did you use, if any?
   MechJeb,
   KJR,
   Docking port alignment indicator
   Kerbal Alarm Clock
   RCS build aid
   Waypoint manage
   (and chatterer)
- How many Kerbals are on the mission?
   Two, Bill and Bob Kerman
- How many launches were needed to start your mission from Kerbin?
   Two, one main ship, and one fin-orbit-refuelling
- How much did your mission cost?
   Main ship launch: 1,043,520 Kerbucks
   Fuel: 577,770 Kerbucks
   Total:  1,621,290 Kerbucks
- Did you needed a refueling mission?
   Not apart from my ISRU
- Did you bring additional stuff like satellites, rovers, etc?
   4 Scanner-probes to find ore, one to put in polar orbits of each of the 4 outer planets.
- Share the delta-V information too, if you tracked it!
   Well, somewhat difficult because of the modular nature of the ship. Some individual figures:
   The basic lander has 2877m/s dv
   The lander in Tylo-config has 4778m/s dv
   The lander in Laythe-config has 4620m/s vacuum dv, 2912m/s surface dv
   The fully fuelled ship when starting from low kerbal orbit was to have 2771m/s dv for the transfer, but i used the final stage of the launcher to boost it, saving a refuelling stop in the Joolian system.
   The ascent-from-Kerbin assembly has about 3900m/s dv

 

Cheers
Ripper

[Nefrums]

On 9/1/2016 at 11:25 PM, Ripper2900 said:

Here's my Jool-5 entry:

S.M.A.C.K.E.R  -  Stacked, Modular, All Chemically-powered Kerbal Exploration Rocket

It goes in the 2nd level with ISRU category

The mission consists of a Basic Lander, built around a Mk-2 Lander can and a small ISRU.
Boosters, aerodynamics and fueltank modules attaches via top- and bottom-mounted large dockingports, so the lander can be configured for the different moons of Jool. This also meant that all engines needs to be built in pods, surrounding the main stack, so they can fire past the module below. They aren't very aerodynamic, so a conical nose is included.
I also brought four deployable orbital ore-scanner probes, so i wouldn't have to bring the entire ship into a polar orbit and back to locate ore.

Everything worked out - not everything as i had planned though (the Tylo landing in particular) but the modular build of the ship saved me more than once, and Bob and Bill are happily back on Kerbin.

Here's the full album with descriptions:
http://imgur.com/a/9M99T

Additional info:
- Which game versions did you use?
   v1.1.3.1289
- What mods did you use, if any?
   MechJeb,
   KJR,
   Docking port alignment indicator
   Kerbal Alarm Clock
   RCS build aid
   Waypoint manage
   (and chatterer)
- How many Kerbals are on the mission?
   Two, Bill and Bob Kerman
- How many launches were needed to start your mission from Kerbin?
   Two, one main ship, and one fin-orbit-refuelling
- How much did your mission cost?
   Main ship launch: 1,043,520 Kerbucks
   Fuel: 577,770 Kerbucks
   Total:  1,621,290 Kerbucks
- Did you needed a refueling mission?
   Not apart from my ISRU
- Did you bring additional stuff like satellites, rovers, etc?
   4 Scanner-probes to find ore, one to put in polar orbits of each of the 4 outer planets.
- Share the delta-V information too, if you tracked it!
   Well, somewhat difficult because of the modular nature of the ship. Some individual figures:
   The basic lander has 2877m/s dv
   The lander in Tylo-config has 4778m/s dv
   The lander in Laythe-config has 4620m/s vacuum dv, 2912m/s surface dv
   The fully fuelled ship when starting from low kerbal orbit was to have 2771m/s dv for the transfer, but i used the final stage of the launcher to boost it, saving a refuelling stop in the Joolian system.
   The ascent-from-Kerbin assembly has about 3900m/s dv

 

Cheers
Ripper

Well done!

I like the modular design. Lots of flexibility in that. It is also nice to see a mission with chemical engins only.

You should keep the resource window open in your screen shots of the landings, it makes validating the mission easier. But all your landers look feasible. 

[Nefrums]

As I have run out of fun things to do in KSP I have started design on another Jool 5 mission.

I will be using KScale64      Planets have 6.4 times bigger radius and ~41 times the mass => surface gravity is the same.

This makes things "a bit" harder... 

dV requirements will be through the roof.  (about 2.5 times more than normal)

I have successfully tested a ~13km/s dV Tylo lander but Laythe is troublesome,  Just surviving reentry is provning very difficult and then I need around 10km/s dV to get from Laythe surface to a mothership in high elliptical orbit.

 

[Foxxonius Augustus]

@sdj64 I have some questions about restricted mods and mod use. Having gone back and read the thread I found that your concern with Tantares was the low mass of crew pods. I was wondering if that meant that I could use it in my attempt if I didn't use Tantares crew pods? Alternately could I use Tantares crew pods if I added inert mass to make up the difference? If so could that inert mass (I was thinking of structural plates) be legally clipped into the pod they were making up the mass for? I also wanted to bring up the use of Bluedog Design Bureau. Although a great mod all by itself, I ask because the BDB Saturn V is almost ready and I was hoping to use it as part of the Jool-5 crossover challenge portion of the Apollo Applications Program.