Conflicted....losing/lost interest in playing...

[Lazy8]

Hi all,

I'm not new to KSP but new to the forums. Been a lurker for a long time. I apologize if this post/rant/thoughts are in the wrong thread but I honestly don't know where to post this and figured General was good enough.

First off, the good by my humble opinion.

KSP is amazing! The idea is so cool, the game play is fun and addicting. There is a steep learning curve and depending on how technical you want it to be it can be really steep, but that is a good thing because it just means there is so much to do and going on in the game. Everyone knows this already who is in this thread so I won't bore you with a game review. Just wanted to show how much I really like and want to like KSP. I love space stuff...grew up watching the original ST and SW and every other show space related and in awe of NASA and all they did/do. To date this is the only and first real simulator for space stuff that is fun that I know of....excluding all the fantasy game stuff out there. KSP for the most part can be played realistically.....with MODS....

Now the bad and what I feel like is pushing me away from playing KSP (no this isn't an anti mod rant so please bear with me)

The updates have been really cool and great! and had I never installed a MOD and been drawn into that whole realm, KSP would work for the most part flawlessly. The game by itself plays great..doesn't run out of memory and doesn't crash. But there in is the problem...it would just be another game and I would've grown tired and bored of it soon enough. I realized early on after getting the hang of the basics and making my space station and exploring the mun and minimus that I wanted something more real and true to life. Why am I bothering to learn the DV required to leave kerbal and all these other stats and figures and math for something that is......FAKE, made up...you get the point. While if I was learning the REAL DV required to leave earth's atmosphere and the stats and figures for all the other solar system planets, I would actually be learning something REAL, tangible and pertinent to real life. The idea of learning the actual flight characteristics for the Apollo 11 mission and trying to fly it is amazing! exciting!

Now that I know that is possible...I no longer want to play KSP at all because I don't want to fill my head with all this BS about kerbal stuff...the mun, minmus etc. I want to learn real information. I want a real simulator not a GAME with kerbals from some imaginary planet, solar system. Damn! I really want to learn what it takes to plan, build, fly and do a mission to mars! not minmus.

It's so frustrating to me, to think that KSP wasn't made this way in the first place. Why did they make a fake world??? did they think it would appeal to kids better? What about getting kids more interested in space and the real solar system. Big missed op here. My two cents.

But back to my problem I am ranting about this here to everyone because I just feel like I have to vent this in the hopes they make actually hear enough complaints from people and do something about it. Not holding my breath.

I can't play KSP right now because it just isn't fun to me playing the fake game now. I have to play RO or RSS but they aren't working for the moment with v1. I gotta hand it to all the people helping out trying to get it working. I wish I knew coding I'd pitch in because for me that is the only way to play KSP right now and I haven't played in weeks now. Withdrawls...

I suppose I could go back to .90 and play but I haven't bothered to download the old mods. That brings me to the other problem I have...MODS. I could never play the game again vanilla knowing now what cool mods there are, just wish the game didn't use so much memory. I"m almost resigned to just leaving KSP for about 5 years and when the next tech comes into play for computers maybe it won't be an issue to play KSP with all the mods you want. Can you imagine how beautiful and amazing and fun KSP would be if you could install all the mods you wanted??? lol

Ok I'm rambling, I do that...why I've been a lurker for so long. I apologize for the long post, I'm not going back over to edit it. I hope I didn't offend anyone, but I'm sure I did. I hope there are others, a lot of people, that feel the same way I do about having KSP reflect the real world and real science.

Thanks for reading.

TLDR I can't play KSP vanilla anymore and wish they would make KSP to reflect the real world and real science. Hope to be playing again someday..or I'll wait 5 years till technology catches up.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Lazy8

[Nansuchao]

You can still download most of 0.90 mods, and play RSS/RO in 0.90.

Then, most of the mods requested for RO are actually updated for 1.02, so you just need to wait for RSS. This is under update in Kopernicus, and it promise to be better than ever, so... Just, be patient, or go back to 0.90 and be patient...

[RAINCRAFTER]

Hi all,

I'm not new to KSP but new to the forums. Been a lurker for a long time. I apologize if this post/rant/thoughts are in the wrong thread but I honestly don't know where to post this and figured General was good enough.

First off, the good by my humble opinion.

KSP is amazing! The idea is so cool, the gameplay is fun and addicting. There is a steep learning curve and depending on how technical you want it to be it can be really steep, but that is a good thing because it just means there is so much to do and going on in the game. Everyone knows this already who is in this thread so I won't bore you with a game review. Just wanted to show how much I really like and want to like KSP. I love space stuff...grew up watching the original ST and SW and every other show space related and in awe of NASA and all they did/do. To date this is the only and first real simulator for space stuff that is fun that I know of....excluding all the fantasy game stuff out there. KSP for the most part can be played realistically.....with MODS....

Now the bad and what I feel like is pushing me away from playing KSP (no this isn't an anti mod rant so please bear with me)

The updates have been really cool and great! and had I never installed a MOD and been drawn into that whole realm, KSP would work for the most part flawlessly. The game by itself plays great..doesn't run out of memory and doesn't crash. But there in is the problem...it would just be another game and I would've grown tired and bored of it soon enough. I realized early on after getting the hang of the basics and making my space station and exploring the mun and minimus that I wanted something more real and true to life. Why am I bothering to learn the DV required to leave kerbal and all these other stats and figures and math for something that is......FAKE, made up...you get the point. When if I was learning the REAL DV required to leave earth's atmosphere and the stats and figures for all the other solar system planets, I would actually be learning something REAL, tangible and pertinent to real life. The idea of learning the actual flight characteristics for the Apollo 11 mission and trying to fly it is amazing! exciting!

Now that I know that is possible...I no longer want to play KSP at all because I don't want to fill my head with all this BS about kerbal stuff...the mun, minmus etc. I want to learn reall information. I want a real simulator not a GAME with kerbals from some imaginary planet, solar system. Damn! I really want to learn what it takes to plan, build, fly and do a mission to mars! not minmus.

It's so frustrating to me, to think that KSP wasn't made this way in the first place. Why did they make a fake world??? did they think it would appeal to kids better? What about getting kids more interested in space and the real solar system. Big missed op here. My two cents.

But back to my problem I am ranting about here to everyone because I just feel like I have to vent this in the hopes they make actually here enough complaints from people and do something about it.Not holding my breath.

I can't play KSP right now because it just isn't fun to me playing the fake game now. I have to play RO or RSS but they aren't working for the moment with v1. I gotta hand it to all the people helping out trying to get it working. I wish I knew coding I'd pitch in because for me that is the only way to play KSP right now and I haven't played in weeks now. Withdrawls...

I suppose I could go back to .90 and play but I haven't bothered to download the old mods. That brings me to the other problem I have...MODS. I could never play the game again vanilla knowing now what cool mods there are, just wish the game didn't use so much memory. I"m almost resigned to just leaving KSP for about 5 years and when the next tech comes into play for computers maybe it won't be an issue to play KSP with all the mods you want. Can you imagine how beautiful and amazing and fun KSP would be if you could install all the mods you wanted??? lol

Ok I'm rambling, I do that...why I've been a lurker for so long. I apologize for the long post, I'm not going back over to edit it. I hope I didn't offend anyone, but I'm sure I did. I hope there are others, a lot of people, that feel the same way I do about having KSP reflect the real world and real science.

Thanks for reading.

TLDR I can't play KSP vanilla anymore and wish they would make KSP to reflect the real world and real science. Hope to be playing again someday..or I'll wait 5 years till technology catches up.

KSP would be 100 times harder to play if they made it a fancy version of Orbiter. And if that talk doesn't solve your problem, there is a mod called Real Solar System that will do what you want. But, if you don't want to instal mods then, well I guess you're alone. Sorry, Lazy8.

EDIT: Here's a link to Realism Overhaul, makes everything more realistic. Sadly, still 0.90. Link: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/99966-0-90-Realism-Overhaul-8-4-1-2015-115

EDIT2:

You can still download most of 0.90 mods, and play RSS/RO in 0.90.

Then, most of the mods requested for RO are actually updated for 1.02, so you just need to wait for RSS. This is under update in Kopernicus, and it promise to be better than ever, so... Just, be patient, or go back to 0.90 and be patient...

Dangit, ninjas.

EDIT3: Oh wait, and there's Orbiter too. It's a completely different game that you would really want, and it's free! It also has a vivid modding community in case the stock craft are too sparse for you. Google it and have a good time.

Edited June 13, 2015 by RAINCRAFTER

[Lazy8]

You can still download most of 0.90 mods, and play RSS/RO in 0.90.

Then, most of the mods requested for RO are actually updated for 1.02, so you just need to wait for RSS. This is under update in Kopernicus, and it promise to be better than ever, so... Just, be patient, or go back to 0.90 and be patient...

I was dumb and deleted my saves and all files related to .90 Just thought I'd start over fresh. Just haven't had the desire and go back to download, hunt find old mods for .90

KSP would be 100 times harder to play if they made it a fancy version of Orbiter. And if that talk doesn't solve your problem, there is a mod called Real Solar System that will do what you want. But, if you don't want to instal mods then, well I guess you're alone. Sorry, Lazy8.

What is orbiter? another space sim game?

You misunderstand me. I DO want to install MODS. I usually run with about 30 installed...really pushing the limits. I wish I could run with all the visual mods...that would be amazing. Don't care so much for the scifi fake mods but I could never play KSP now without DR, FAR, RP etc.

I just wish squad made KSP based on real science and the real solar system. instead we have to install a lot of mods to make it realistic and even then it's not complete...for instance even with RO (realism overhaul) or RSS (real solar system) the planets are still named according to KSP....why? I'm guessing that it's hard coded in the base and can't be changed...minor but annoying.

Edited June 13, 2015 by Lazy8

[bonyetty]

Orbiter. Download it, play it. Its what you think you want. By the time you have completed a successful orbit and landing your desired mods will be ready and most likely be running on unity 5. I guessing you will be back. KSP designed to be fun where as orbiter designed to be a simulation.

Edited June 13, 2015 by bonyetty

[regex]

KSP designed to be fun where as orbiter designed to be a simulation.

Those things aren't mutually exclusive.

Totally agree with the sentiment in OP, which is why I always have an RO/RSS install available (still have my 0.90 install here). KSP missed so much of its potential by "thinking small", and its a good thing mods are available to solve that because I would have lost interest a long time ago. Still, 1.0.x is the best update we've had in a long time and the added realistic systems makes it that much better.

[RAINCRAFTER]

What is orbiter? another space sim game?

You misunderstand me. I DO want to install MODS. I usually run with about 30 installed...really pushing the limits. I wish I could run with all the visual mods...that would be amazing. Don't care so much for the scifi fake mods but I could never play KSP now without DR, FAR, RP etc.

I just wish squad made KSP based on real science and the real solar system. instead we have to install a lot of mods to make it realistic and even then it's not complete...for instance even with RO (realism overhaul) or RSS (real solar system) the planets are still named according to KSP....why? I'm guessing that it's hard coded in the base and can't be changed...minor but annoying.

Then you are in the prime box! Also, yes Orbiter is another space sim game. It is completely realistic, and it's a free download, so just google it and give it a try. (and have a good time presumably; AGAIN.)

Edited June 13, 2015 by RAINCRAFTER

[Yellowburn10]

Those things aren't mutually exclusive.

Not entirely. People like you and lazy8 have more fun when things are very realistic. Other people, however, have more fun if things are partially or have very little realism.

It's really all about preference. Fortunately, KSP is flexible like that.

Also, Lazy8, if you haven't heard, since KSP is being upgraded to Unity 5, it will have a 64-bit editor. So in the not so distant future, 64-bit KSP will be supported. Great for all your modding needs!

Edited June 14, 2015 by Yellowburn10

[bonyetty]

Those things aren't mutually exclusive.

Very pedantic regex. Suppose I should have said primarily designed to be a sim or fun. Tis a trait suited to more of a simulation(ish) game I guess.

[regex]

Very pedantic regex.

It's not pedantic at all, it's the truth. People seem to parrot that same crap myth around here all the time, that realistic or sim game mechanics are not fun or that unrealistic mechanics automatically equal fun. It's a line straight out of the "MechJeb is cheating" book.

[Plume & Akakak]

This makes no sense. You will need back-up to defend your idea of what is "real" and "pertinent to real life".

[11of10]

*peeks out of a dark alley* "Hey, psst, you there... I have just what you're looking for, right here:"

RSS prerelease: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/55145-0-90-Real-Solar-System-v8-6-1-Mar-30?p=1999650&viewfull=1#post1999650 It's mostly usable. Try it.

Unofficial x64 version, works almost as good as x32: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/117224-Windows-64-bit-community-workaround

Have a good time there.

P.S. You don't need x64 for RSS. Works without it, even with 8192 textures.

[Canopus]

To date this is the only and first real simulator for space stuff that is fun that I know of....excluding all the fantasy game stuff out there. KSP for the most part can be played realistically.....with MODS....

So you never googled Space Simulator. Orbiter is basically the only Spaceflight Simulator so you should try that.

[Robotengineer]

So you never googled Space Simulator. Orbiter is basically the only Spaceflight Simulator so you should try that.

Orbiter is severely lacking in the creativity department, KSP is the only game AFAIK that lets you build and fly your own rockets with pseudo-realistic physics.

[Canopus]

Orbiter is severely lacking in the creativity department, KSP is the only game AFAIK that lets you build and fly your own rockets with pseudo-realistic physics.

He has to decide. I'm sure KSP was never meant as a replacement for Orbiter. If he wants the real solar system he should try out Orbiter. Edited June 14, 2015 by Canopus

[match]

If indeed you decide to withdraw in search of different pastures, I hope you think fondly of the kerbals when you can apply what was learnt with Jeb and friends.

They will be patiently waiting for your return with maniacal grins on their faces.

[Random Hooded Stranger]

I gotta say, I understand the need/desire for realism out of *specifically* KSP. It's a fantastic game with just the right amount of humor and proper science. I know it's aggravating to learn the math and number for made up things, however you must keep in mind that the principal is not too far off. I mean, many of the people who play this game have learned complex mathematical algorithms that without, may never have even crossed their path of interest. These maths aren't exactly way off base. These are the same calculations that physicists and engineers have to do to figure these things out in real life. That being said, as many others have already said there of course are the RSS/RO mods that make this game immensely realistic, right down to the build time of your rockets chemicals needed for different types of fuel tanks.

I guess the point I'm trying to get at is I feel ya, but don't let the non-realism get you down. At the root of all the silly stuff lie truths in physics that can *somewhat* easily be translated to real life. I love this game so freaking much, it has actually reverted my "give up on college" mindset, and inspired me to start the long grueling RL work it's going to take to get a degree in physics. I have such an immense interest in space, astrophysics, rocket science....I truly believe that life off of earth is the true answer for humanity, and I couldn't be happier that a game like KSP exists and can inspire people to learn about this stuff.

[Lazy8]

It's not pedantic at all, it's the truth. People seem to parrot that same crap myth around here all the time, that realistic or sim game mechanics are not fun or that unrealistic mechanics automatically equal fun. It's a line straight out of the "MechJeb is cheating" book.

Maybe this was the thinking by squad when they originally decided to make a fake world for the kerbals rather than based on our solar system. I don't get it. Why with a game as complicated as KSP where you will escape Kerbin all the time and have the DV memorized to heart would you not want to have learned and memorized the real values for earth. I get that the basics are there and you sub in out the real values and basically have an understanding of the principals but it's not the same.

This makes no sense. You will need back-up to defend your idea of what is "real" and "pertinent to real life".

I am not a rocket scientist..lol. but I did have the privilege of working in the aerospace industry for some time. /brag on I worked on real Sat's. From design, manufacturing, testing to launch. I got to touch and be behind the scenes for launches from the Ariane V and Sea Launch. I've sent my family's pics up to space. I learned real attitude, direction and control mechanics, tested real prop systems, and established first comms after launch with our spacecraft. For real. /brag off

So for me to play this game and see the potential to really learn so much true REAL knowledge from it..is cool! I don't want to fill my head with kerbal physics and info that is "fake" I'd like to be learning real info.

I get it's just a game to and it will never be completely accurate...that would be too monotonous anyway. But if squad had used the real solar system..the real (or as close to) physics and the real DV and so on...would it have changed the game that much??? You could still have kerbals and all the fun cutesy stuff but really would it have changed the game?? I don't think so..if anything it would have made it more interesting to geeks like myself and still been appealing to kids and novices...but I think like stated above..applys

realistic or sim game mechanics are not fun or that unrealistic mechanics automatically equal fun

He has to decide. I'm sure KSP was never meant as a replacement for Orbiter. If he wants the real solar system he should try out Orbiter.

So you never googled Space Simulator. Orbiter is basically the only Spaceflight Simulator so you should try that.

I am embarrassed to admit that until today, I had never googled or heard of Orbiter. Seriously...lol...but I haven't played as many games as I did when I was younger...too many other things get in the way. I am downloading orbiter and will give it a go. Hard to believe it's been around a long time and I'm only learning about it now.

*peeks out of a dark alley* "Hey, psst, you there... I have just what you're looking for, right here:"

RSS prerelease: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/55145-0-90-Real-Solar-System-v8-6-1-Mar-30?p=1999650&viewfull=1#post1999650 It's mostly usable. Try it.

Unofficial x64 version, works almost as good as x32: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/117224-Windows-64-bit-community-workaround

Have a good time there.

P.S. You don't need x64 for RSS. Works without it, even with 8192 textures.

I wasn't aware of unity 5 upcoming to KSP or what that means....I will have to google that as well, but my gut tells me it won't be earth shattering for KSP...so many let down's with KSP and x64 to date. But that would solve a lot of problems if KSP were to work as flawless on x64 and x86. fingers crossed I don't have to wait 5 years for that to come true.

RSS is a part of Realism Overhaul...I'll check out the link you gave, thanks

Edited June 14, 2015 by Lazy8

[AbacusWizard]

In my opinion as a physics teacher: it doesn't bother me at all that the numbers for Kerbin don't match the numbers for Earth. The important thing is that the equations and techniques I'm learning (Tsiolkovsky rocket equation, speed and altitude for synchronous orbit, orbital rendezvous, transfer orbits, etc) are real equations and techniques. If I ever need to apply what I've learned to a real-world scenario, it's a very simple matter to substitute Earth's stats into the exact same equations. (In fact I do this at least once or twice a quarter in the physics classes I teach.)

[bonyetty]

It's not pedantic at all, it's the truth. People seem to parrot that same crap myth around here all the time, that realistic or sim game mechanics are not fun or that unrealistic mechanics automatically equal fun. It's a line straight out of the "MechJeb is cheating" book.

Wrong side of the bed this morning maybe? I am agreeing with you. Sheesh how many qualifiers do you expect in a forum post. I did not say one can't be had without the other, fun and sim. Pedantic in this case IMHO.

[Lazy8]

In my opinion as a physics teacher: it doesn't bother me at all that the numbers for Kerbin don't match the numbers for Earth. The important thing is that the equations and techniques I'm learning (Tsiolkovsky rocket equation, speed and altitude for synchronous orbit, orbital rendezvous, transfer orbits, etc) are real equations and techniques. If I ever need to apply what I've learned to a real-world scenario, it's a very simple matter to substitute Earth's stats into the exact same equations. (In fact I do this at least once or twice a quarter in the physics classes I teach.)

I think that is very cool! This would have made my time in physics way more fun..lol. I get that there is realism in the game as far as real math being learned and computed...but for me it just isn't the same. I want to try and fly the Apollo 11 mission or another historical space event (aren't they all??) but pretending that mun is the moon and that the distance, gravity, DV needed is the same as the real moon....takes away most of the fun, sense of accomplishment and game play for me. I'm speaking for me only (sound like I'm whining now too) The potential is there to use and learn the real values, math, astronomy, physics and really better understand and appreciate all that went into the Apollo 11 mission to make it successful, it's frustrating that with the potential there I can't do it. Does that make sense? or still sound like I'm whining? It really has sucked a lot of the fun and excite out of it for me.

[Jart]

Just a suggestion, if you want to learn the real stuff crack the books....

Newtonian physics is Newtonian physics, not sure what you would learn with realism there, the difference in the digits produced mean nothing, so lets talk about flipping a hell of a lot of switches and revolving through check lists. Fun game play for some, maybe even evolve into a game. Check Manley's youtube site, he just reviewed a realistic project he has been interested in for a couple of years. I am sure that project could use a few bucks. Even a bit of a flight model and guns going.

It would also depend on how realistic you want your game to be. Yes I would love to have a model that allowed LaGrange Points and etc but I think KSP is already pushing quite a few numbers for most peoples computers. I am just guessing that that kind of model would be an exponential jump in computer processing or a lot of game instances that could simulate those points.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Jart

[Lazy8]

Just a suggestion, if you want to learn the real stuff crack the books....

Newtonian physics is Newtonian physics, not sure what you would learn with realism there, the difference in the digits produced mean nothing, so lets talk about flipping a hell of a lot of switches and revolving through check lists. Fun game play for some, maybe even evolve into a game. Check Manley's youtube site, he just reviewed a realistic project he has been interested in for a couple of years. I am sure that project could use a few bucks. Even a bit of a flight model and guns going.

It would also depend on how realistic you want your game to be. Yes I would love to have a model that allowed LaGrange Points and etc but I think KSP is already pushing quite a few numbers for most peoples computers.

No, that is not what I am trying to point out. I'm sounding like I want a completely realistic sim with all the monotony that goes with it but I really don't. I want KSP just with using the solar system and correct physics etc with it. Not trying to imply I want a new game that is infinitely more complicated and obscene with checklist and missions that take real actual days to accomplish.

And as far as cracking the books.....I have cracked many books on the subjects of astronomy, rocketry, and space related. That is part of the reason I'd like to see KSP use that info from those books instead of made up stuff.

Edited June 14, 2015 by Lazy8

[Jart]

I really think my last paragraph is the game-breaker here.. There is a limit to the numbers we can push quickly on PCs and the number of relative points that would have to be pitched against each other would be astronomical in a game we would both love. Please someone prove me wrong.

[Phoenix1583]

Orbiter is a fun sim... if you're good at it. My issue with Orbited is simple: It's hugely outdated and lacks the kind of easily accessible modding that KSP has. Sure, KSP is unrealistic but that can actually be fixed somewhat easily if you know how to (or are willing to learn) how to mod orbits and planetary bodies. I'm working passively, in my spare time, on a realistic mod that'll hopefully give the game a little more realism but the game will hit Unity 5 before I'm done I think so I'm leaving it as a little pet project.