PS4 Announcement Discussion

[panfish5]

As far as I know the porting of KSP to PS4 will barely affect the development of the PC version of KSP so even if the console version is a disaster it wont matter because most of us already play on PC and will continue to play on PC. The point of porting to PS4 is to give more players access to the great game of KSP and the extra money squad makes from PS4 Will likely go into hiring more devs that will work on PC KSP.

[regex]

The point of porting to PS4 is to give more players access to the great game of KSP and the extra money squad makes from PS4 Will likely go into hiring more devs that will work on PC KSP.

That's an interesting hypothesis considering the money they've likely already made on the game hasn't inflated the team at all. At least 1 million Steam users have bought the game.

[basic.syntax]

Yeah, that's what I'm afraid of. It's going to be utterly terrible.

Don't forget the part about 'two versions' - just because PS4, doesn't mean that Squad has to dump or 'dumb down' PC UI. I think everyone knows by now how clunky the Skyrim UI was (thus the popular mod "Sky UI" which improved on it) and Squad will be at pains to make something less clunky.

[panfish5]

That's an interesting hypothesis considering the money they've likely already made on the game hasn't inflated the team at all. At least 1 million Steam users have bought the game.

Even if the money doesn't go into hiring new devs (Which some of it has to because they just lost 2 devs in the past month.) they will likely spend that money on better software that will help in the development of KSP.

[nismobg]

I am sorry but the ONLY reason KSP is still popular are the mods. Pushing on PS4 port and using the excuse for working on both versions at the same time will alienate your base of people contributing to the game, we all know how this goes and have seen it multiple times with many other game. Sadly people will realize this too late and SQUAD will be laughing their way to the bank if they have not already.

[Accelerando]

Even if the money doesn't go into hiring new devs (Which some of it has to because they just lost 2 devs in the past month.) they will likely spend that money on better software that will help in the development of KSP.

Even if they had 30 people on the team for their entire four years of development, they've sold anywhere between 500,000 and 3 million copies - which translates to in the neighborhood of 10-ish million to 50-ish million dollars - which would allow them to feed their employees $50,000 USD/year salaries for four years and then have hundreds of thousands to tens of millions of dollars to spare. Since their team roster has been more like 15 at any given time, they've undoubtedly been sitting on plenty of money. If they were going to spend it on better software, they've had loads of time to do it.

[Randazzo]

I am sorry but the ONLY reason KSP is still popular are the mods

You mean to say the only reason customers who purchased very early on still play are the mods. It's popularity (new customers) very likely has little to do with mods.

From a business stand-point, the new customers (and as many as you can get) are where the money is. I don't believe the Devs are necessarily looking at it this way, but they work for somebody, who works for somebody else, and at some point along this chain you're going to hit someone who is all about the money.

Of course there's always the new-fangled "DLC" scams to get money out of older players too, but let's not go there.

This seems to have rambled a bit from whatever point I was making, but I've typed it all now, so there you have it.

[worir4]

Of course it is for the money though! If it wasn't they would make KSP free! And there is nothing wrong with them selling it, if they where in it just for the money however, they could have just updated to 1.0 and said 'Thanks for the money, bye!'. But they haven't. We are still getting updates for the PC version and as long as the PS4 version doesn't effect the development for the PC version, i don't see why any one should be disappointed by the decision.

[NovaSilisko]

they will likely spend that money on better software that will help in the development of KSP.

Like... what, exactly? The new Game-Forge Timothy, The Artificially Intelligent Game Dev Program? You can't really just arbitrarily buy "better" software to increase productivity, it doesn't work like that. It works up to a point, assuming you're using total crap software to work with, but beyond that there's an upper limit in there.

[Javster]

This is questionable at best, a disaster at worst. "Let's develop our game on a less powerful platform with no customisation whatsoever" does not sound good

[tater]

Even if they had 30 people on the team for their entire four years of development, they've sold anywhere between 500,000 and 3 million copies - which translates to in the neighborhood of 10-ish million to 50-ish million dollars - which would allow them to feed their employees $50,000 USD/year salaries for four years and then have hundreds of thousands to tens of millions of dollars to spare. Since their team roster has been more like 15 at any given time, they've undoubtedly been sitting on plenty of money. If they were going to spend it on better software, they've had loads of time to do it.

50k is chump change, and you cannot be sure the next title will profit (assuming there is one). 6M$ divided by 15 people over 4 years is 100k a year. Obviously other costs would heavily reduce that, leaving little left. The people posting here already spent their $20, they need new sales. I hope they make a mint, they deserve it, it's a fun game. After we get bored and move on to the next cool game they still have to make a living.

[NovaSilisko]

6M$ divided by 15 people over 4 years is 100k a year.

If only.

[Accelerando]

50k is chump change, and you cannot be sure the next title will profit (assuming there is one). 6M$ divided by 15 people over 4 years is 100k a year. Obviously other costs would heavily reduce that, leaving little left. The people posting here already spent their $20, they need new sales. I hope they make a mint, they deserve it, it's a fun game. After we get bored and move on to the next cool game they still have to make a living.

SQUAD is a company based in Mexico; many of its employees are Mexican, and the cost of living in Mexico is often significantly less (frequently up to 2x less, at least according to these figures). Plus, it's not as though they are necessarily paying everyone United States-level middle class nuclear family salaries, even with their significant earnings - most companies earn far more than enough to pay their employees more than they do. You say 6 million dollars, but if we go by the cheapest Steam prices of around 20$ as you say, as our "average", then 500,000 sales equates to $10,000,000 USD, which leaves four million dollars in surplus even if every employee were paid 100K yearly.

The surplus goes up tremendously if the figure for sales increases. There is a thread which references a SteamSpy account of Steam ownership numbers (the data is now censored at the behest of SQUAD), and the amount corroborated there is in the range of 1 million sales, which likely doesn't include private profiles, and of course doesn't include the KSP store, so the number is probably even higher. And an interview with Calisker from last year gives a figure close to 3 million sales if you count their assertion that the forums represent 5% of the total playerbase, given our current 140-ish thousand strong member count. That's tens of millions of dollars. 50 million dollars would be enough to buy minor mansions for each permanent team member.

It's fine if people make mints, but SQUAD is a company that existed before KSP began. Most of these people are likely being paid salaries of some sort, not just getting a certain cut of the profits. Most entry level software engineers make significantly less than 100K/year, and positions other than software engineer - 3D artists, sound designers, IT people, etc - can make significantly less. And it's not as though companies can't pay some people short, while the majority goes to a few.

Edited June 17, 2015 by Accelerando

[basic.syntax]

Talking about dollar amounts is pointless and distracting. We should all want a great game for all platforms Squad cares to support. More players, more and better features - if Squad gets some more money out of this deal, it should help the game in the long run.

[Arsonik]

I can't help but feel like all the bitter veterans here are going to eat there words down the line. We've already been promised a UI overhaul. PS4 has native mouse/keyboard/3rd party controller support. A seperate company is doing to port. With a bigger "repertoire" of games then SQUAD had when they started KSP. But no one said "Screw this I'm not backing this game by devs who haven never 'devd' before".

Bunch of friggin cry babies here. I use to scoff at people who talk about the vocal majority, but this forum really does appear like it.

Enjoy raging about a bunch of speculation though. Hopefully no ones ego gets to burned when SQUAD comes out with another highly successful version of their unique game vision.

[Dooz]

KSP Is one of those games that is really only good on a PC.

Why?

Controls

I can't imagine using a PS controller to play KSP, I can't imagine how hard it would be to land on the mun, a PS controller doesn't offer the precision of a keyboard and mouse, also action groups would be nearly impossible.

Mods

PS4 can't download mods which personally enhance the gameplay.

If PS was to support mods, modders would have to probably make 2 versions of the mod to support both the PS and PC.

Well......

[regex]

Don't forget the part about 'two versions' - just because PS4, doesn't mean that Squad has to dump or 'dumb down' PC UI. I think everyone knows by now how clunky the Skyrim UI was (thus the popular mod "Sky UI" which improved on it) and Squad will be at pains to make something less clunky.

I certainly hope you're right but there is very little compelling about two codebases for a single project; I've worked on those sorts of projects and they're a nightmare. All I can hope for is a stable Unity 5 build for PC before the PS4 UI ruins the game.

[Arsonik]

KSP Is one of those games that is really only good on a PC.

Why?

Controls

I can't imagine using a PS controller to play KSP, I can't imagine how hard it would be to land on the mun, a PS controller doesn't offer the precision of a keyboard and mouse, also action groups would be nearly impossible.

Mods

PS4 can't download mods which personally enhance the gameplay.

If PS was to support mods, modders would have to probably make 2 versions of the mod to support both the PS and PC.

Well......

Speculation is one of those things that are really only good... wait

It's not good.

Why?

I've already pointed out twice that PS comes with native mouse/keyboard/3rd party controller support.

[luizopiloto]

I still have my 0.24.2 backup... We have to select the best version... and save it for the dark times ahead of us...

[Shpaget]

Let's not talk about money SQUAD is making. It's none of our business. Each of us decided that the price SQUAD asked for the game at the moment of our purchase was fine and each of us decided to exchange our money for their game.

I would pay that price again for a fixed and polished 2.0.

[sal_vager]

Guys, calm, speculation is only that, speculation, the proof will come in time, but I can guarantee that no matter how good it is someone will find cause to complain

[Accelerando]

Talking about dollar amounts is pointless and distracting. We should all want a great game for all platforms Squad cares to support. More players, more and better features - if Squad gets some more money out of this deal, it should help the game in the long run.

The point of "talking about dollar amounts" is to raise the issue that, while people are quick to congratulate SQUAD for undertaking any move that might increase their profit channels in hopes that this will somehow lead to better game development, SQUAD is already sitting on fat stacks of money; yet the "more money, better development" logic seemingly has yet to pan out.

It took over two years for SQUAD to implement a resource model that is basically a stripped-down Kethane in not as many words, when the old resources model was supposedly scrapped in part for being "grindy" like Kethane. Career Mode has languished for a year while waiting for, among other things perhaps, an aerodynamics overhaul, which in turn was waiting for new spaceplane parts. They could have had new spaceplane parts while they had B9 on the team, but he mysteriously disappeared from the roster with not a word (although I'm absolutely not implying that we should pressure B9 to spill the beans). It's been over two years since the first release of FAR. And multiple modded career balances have sprung up in the year that Career has been out.

SQUAD has had the money, the resources, the time, and the people - both on their team and available, even bursting from the seams of the community with enthusiasm to develop for KSP. That they have not used their fairly staggering quantities of cash to hand over some of the so-terrible responsibilities of development to some of the lovely, proven skills among the mod crew, and have let go of most of the hires they have made without taking on much in the way of significant gameplay contribution, makes this whole business about contracting a port of KSP to an entirely new platform to a shady, unproven company seem very dubious to me at best.

And, hey, what can I say. I'm still waiting for that space program tycoon game.

[regex]

And, hey, what can I say. I'm still waiting for that space program tycoon game.

Yeah, where did that go?

[Woopert]

Horrible, horrible, horrible news. I'm losing faith in Squad. This always happens with early access indie games.

1. Seems like a cool game!
   
2. This game is amazing! My favourite game of all time!
   
3. Oh, they're changing some stuff. It's okay but I'll deal with it.
   
4. Why! Why? Why change things that are already perfectly fine?
   
5. It's all lost! The game isn't good anymore.
   

It happened to Minecraft. I thought it would never happen to KSP because it seemed so perfect. This is a joke.

#PCmasterrace

Edited June 17, 2015 by Woopert

[MaverickSawyer]

As a long time member of the KSP community...

WHY?

Seriously, what ca be gained from a port to PS4? Are they just trying to follow in the footsteps of Minecraft? Because Minecraft was an obvious choice for a port. KSP? Not so much. It's gonna be hard to condense an entire keyboard's worth of input to a few buttons and a pair of sticks.