[WIP][1.8.x] SSTULabs - Low Part Count Solutions (Orbiters, Landers, Lifters) - Dev Thread [11-18-18]

[tater]

Would you really do a medium heat shield for Minmus? Seems like medium would be Kerbin orbit stuff.

A 20km periapsis with a heavy 1.25m heat shield uses the entire heat shield, but the m1 capsule with chute survives with no problem. 

[Jimbodiah]

There has been something up with the heatshield resource usage for a while (I think since 1.3), as I need heavy/extra heavy shields for moon trips. I just turn the settings downs to 60% as I've not found time to adjust the heatshield curves.

[tater]

I suppose what matters is where they are calibrated. The Apollo heat shield is nearly what we might use for a direct entry from a Mars mission. Should this be "medium," or "heavy?" Should LEO craft default to "light?"

[Jimbodiah]

LEO is about the gentlest situation you could have, so that would be a Light in my eyes, and maybe a Mars return as Heavy.

[Shadowmage]

Oh gawd, my eyes... (forum software updates can... kindly go blow themselves (up)).

My intended split out in functionality was supposed to be:

Light = LKO, as in, very low; <~350km.   Something like ~2500m/s max re-entry speed.
Medium = Kerbin SOI - ~3200m/s max re-entry speed.  So maybe you could sneak in from Eve/Duna, but further targets would be out of the question.
Heavy = Interplanetary;  ~3200 - 4000m/s.  Intended for anything outside Kerbin SOI.
Ex-Heavy = Interplanetary, multi-pass or multi-use.

But apparently something has gotten out of whack during the recent KSP updates (nothing has changed in the heat-shield code in quite some time, so something has changed in stock).

I'll add this onto the list of things that need cleanup/rebalance pass on them.

 

22 hours ago, ComatoseJedi said:

Anyone having a problem attaching the Lander Tank? It doesn't seem to want to attach to any attach node. When it does, it deletes the node until I delete the part and try again. I can try to provide logs, but since it takes like 10 minutes for me to exit KSP, I don't see how a log would provide any information while building in the VAB.

 

I can't say that I've seen that problem -- but I also haven't really used those fuel tanks in quite some time.

Probably time to just remove them entirely until the lander-core rework can be done.  I simply don't have time to investigate/fix problems on parts that are already scheduled to be replaced (and were a giant ugly hack to begin with).

Logs -- duplicate the problem in the VAB, and then hit alt+F4 -- it'll kill KSP immediately (if on windows anyway); the log will still be generated.

[Mike`]

20 hours ago, Shadowmage said:

For the 1.25m, that is probably an excellent test-case, and sounds like a good place to start working on the balance.  (Though for 2.5m I consider the stock mk1-2 pod to be grossly overweight, and not a good case for testing)

If you would really like to 'play' with the balance on them, there are a couple values in the config files that determine how the heat shield reacts to various heat loads.

In the SC-GEN-MHS.cfg file, if you find the MHS module, the following line determines how fast ablator is used:

ablationEfficiency = 8000

It is essentially how much 'flux' each unit of ablator can absorb before being consumed/blown off/whatever happens to ablator.  Higher values = more resilient heat shield that will last longer at any given heat load.

Secondly, there are the heat-response curves, found in GameData/SSTU/Data/HeatShieldTypes.cfg.  These are specified as standard KSP float curves (key = <input value>  <output value for given input>), which in this case is 'key = <part temp> <flux to remove per second>'.  It is the second values that you would want to adjust/play with (the flux-to-remove-per-second).  In theory these curves were supposed to allow for the part to heat up to a given point before the ablation kicked in, increase ablation as heat increased to a point, but still allow for the re-entry to 'overpower' the ablation rate (resulting in higher part temps, and eventual explosions/loss of the heat shield part).

Thanks for pointing this out, i might give this a try.

20 hours ago, Shadowmage said:

With the pods the difference between the CM and CMX is less than the heat shield mass, as the CMX versions should have more RCS fuel and higher dry mass to simulate the additional 'supplies' on board (with USI-LS, etc, that mass is actually in the supplies rather than simulated, and the parts dry mass should be adjusted accordingly).  At least that is the intention, how well that has made it into the part configs is open for debate...

Ah, true, i missed that. I still think the current weights of the heatshields are a bit heavy even comparing with the old apollo, too bad if the weight helps the thermal simulation. Might play around with that aswell.

1 hour ago, Shadowmage said:

My intended split out in functionality was supposed to be:

Light = LKO, as in, very low; <~350km.   Something like ~2500m/s max re-entry speed.
Medium = Kerbin SOI - ~3200m/s max re-entry speed.  So maybe you could sneak in from Eve/Duna, but further targets would be out of the question.
Heavy = Interplanetary;  ~3200 - 4000m/s.  Intended for anything outside Kerbin SOI.
Ex-Heavy = Interplanetary, multi-pass or multi-use.

I like that balance, sounds good.

Quote

Probably time to just remove them entirely until the lander-core rework can be done.  I simply don't have time to investigate/fix problems on parts that are already scheduled to be replaced (and were a giant ugly hack to begin with).

Ah, but the lander tank looks cool. I fiddled with it in the VAB a bit, it worked and i liked it.

Edited August 31, 2017 by Mike`

[Jimbodiah]

2 hours ago, Shadowmage said:

Anyone having a problem attaching the Lander Tank? It doesn't seem to want to attach to any attach node. When it does, it deletes the node until I delete the part and try again. I can try to provide logs, but since it takes like 10 minutes for me to exit KSP, I don't see how a log would provide any information while building in the VAB.

When I've seen this behavior before on the MUS while testing it is caused by an error in resource definitions for the tank. The alt=f12 log should also should a bunch of errors in this case.

[ComatoseJedi]

2 hours ago, Shadowmage said:

Logs -- duplicate the problem in the VAB, and then hit alt+F4 -- it'll kill KSP immediately (if on windows anyway); the log will still be generated.

Done. I put the issue on the GitHub #552 with pictures and log. 

[Rodger]

I just made a little patch for people who use the interstage decoupler mostly as a top node decoupler and retrorocket, to just switch the default decoupling nodes and rocket orientation:

@PART[SSTU-SC-GEN-ISDC]:NEEDS[SSTU]:AFTER[SSTU]
{
    @MODULE[ModuleDecouple]
    {
        @stagingEnabled = true
    }
    @MODULE[SSTUInterstageDecoupler]
    {
        @stagingEnabled = false
        %invertEngines = true
    }
}

[Jimbodiah]

Ha, I kow what you mean, that is what I have done as well   I only use them as retrorockets.

[StickyScissors]

Finally got around to actually playing KSP for the first time in forever.

[Rodger]

Who likes SSTU and Ven's Stock Revamp??

So far Poodles, Skippers, and mounts have been SSTU-ed
https://github.com/Rodg88/SSTUVens

[Shadowmage]

Updated release is available:

https://github.com/shadowmage45/SSTULabs/releases/tag/0.6.36.139

Contains several fixes and updates, and adds a new feature to tracking solar panels.  As usual, see the link for full change-log and downloads.  Using a new build setup, so the structure of the .zip has changed a bit; also includes installation instructions (very basic).

[pp3d]

When I move Kerbals into the inflated SSTU-ST-CFG-50 they disappear from the roster. I can still see them in the tracking station as passengers in that module but I can not interact with them (like move them elsewhere) on the active vessel. Any thoughts?

[pp3d]

I saw from a post a year ago that this is due to no IVA. Therefore, solution was to right click to transfer crew. Problem is, there is no option to transfer the crew. 

[tater]

The new version is supposed to be easier to install?

I used to just unzip the thing (double click zip file), and drag the 3 folders to GameData. One double click, one (grouped) drag. This is with the default archive utility. 

Now I have to explicitly chose to open the zip with a different zip app, then tell it where to expand it---then I still need to drag the 3 folders.

If it is double-clicked in MacOS, it expands it where it is (as my prefs are set)---but now all the files are together, with names that include the paths, but no directory structure created at all. I can still install it, but at least on the Mac the old way was easier, and I never had any issues with it.

I suppose there might be a better zip app available somewhere, but I've never bothered with looking. 

Edited September 5, 2017 by tater

[Rodger]

45 minutes ago, tater said:

The new version is supposed to be easier to install?

I used to just unzip the thing (double click zip file), and drag the 3 folders to GameData. One double click, one (grouped) drag. This is with the default archive utility. 

Now I have to explicitly chose to open the zip with a different zip app, then tell it where to expand it---then I still need to drag the 3 folders.

If it is double-clicked in MacOS, it expands it where it is (as my prefs are set)---but now all the files are together, with names that include the paths, but no directory structure created at all. I can still install it, but at least on the Mac the old way was easier, and I never had any issues with it.

I suppose there might be a better zip app available somewhere, but I've never bothered with looking. 

Try downloading the 'Source code (zip)' instead, and open that zip file, and all the files in that GameData should have the right directory structure.

[blowfish]

36 minutes ago, Rodger said:

Try downloading the 'Source code (zip)' instead, and open that zip file, and all the files in that GameData should have the right directory structure.

You should really download from releases rather than downloading the whole repo unless you have a specific reason not to.

[Rodger]

37 minutes ago, blowfish said:

You should really download from releases rather than downloading the whole repo unless you have a specific reason not to.

This is the reason not to atm:

[blowfish]

8 minutes ago, Rodger said:

This is the reason not to atm:

*snip*

Should have actually read @tater's original post

@Shadowmage There seems to be something weird about the way the latest release is packaged.  The paths all seem to have backslashes rather than forward slashes, and this seems to mess up unzipping in OSX.  The previous release does not seem to have this issue.  Was the most recent one packaged differently?

Edited September 5, 2017 by blowfish

[tater]

I'm so used to unix slashes that I entirely forget that DOS uses the wrong ones.

Interestingly, Stuffit can extract the directory structure just fine, but the default archive utility cannot.

[blowfish]

1 hour ago, tater said:

I'm so used to unix slashes that I entirely forget that DOS uses the wrong ones.

Interestingly, Stuffit can extract the directory structure just fine, but the default archive utility cannot.

Yeah, the command line unzip utility seems to be fine too, I guess it's something they just overlooked when writing the archive utility.

[Sudragon]

Was there a fix for the SSTU solr panels opening during selection in the VAB?

[Shadowmage]

11 hours ago, tater said:

The new version is supposed to be easier to install?

I used to just unzip the thing (double click zip file), and drag the 3 folders to GameData. One double click, one (grouped) drag. This is with the default archive utility. 

Now I have to explicitly chose to open the zip with a different zip app, then tell it where to expand it---then I still need to drag the 3 folders.

If it is double-clicked in MacOS, it expands it where it is (as my prefs are set)---but now all the files are together, with names that include the paths, but no directory structure created at all. I can still install it, but at least on the Mac the old way was easier, and I never had any issues with it.

I suppose there might be a better zip app available somewhere, but I've never bothered with looking. 

Well, it is easier... on Windows.  Apparently the util I used to zip things up (Windows PowerShell), makes crappy .zip files that OsX can't open properly.  Of course, it all looks/works fine on Windows when I tested it =\

Aside from the change in zip utility, there really isn't any change to the installtion process (unzip the .zip/GameData/* into your exisitng KSP/GameData/ folder).

Looking into a better packing utility now.  I previously used 7-zip, but it has licensing problems that prevent me from keeping it in the release repo.  So I was looking for something a bit more built-in, which lead me to the PowerShell commands.  Apparently these use a different .zip algorithm/encoding that OSX struggles with.

 

Anyone aware of any 'free' (as in non-license encumbered) command-line zip utilities for Windows?

(Edit:  Looking into using the exising C# .zip libraries... was already going to make a short thing that incremented build #'s... might as well include the .zip functionality in it as well)

1 hour ago, Sudragon said:

Was there a fix for the SSTU solr panels opening during selection in the VAB?

Cannot fix that which was not reported.

I don't think I've seen any issue ticket on that problem, and don't recall ever hitting it during personal testing (which I did quite a bit of over the weekend).

Edited September 5, 2017 by Shadowmage

[tater]

OK, I assumed I was just doing something wrong, or that the Windows install paradigm was different than what I have been doing forever. I'll admit that instead of installing over existing mods and letting the unzip overwrite stuff, my personal style is to manually trash the old mod folders, then drop in the new ones just to make sure the installation is as clean as possible.

I do this on PC games as well, honestly (or use the JSGME mod switcher in the case of SH4 and a few other games).