Top Gun AI - The Official Tournament Thread

[Alphasus]

3 hours ago, Triop said:

@ BlueCanary, smart, it's like the "Gladius 1-A". Good fighter, don't remember who made it...

I like your design, at least it looks like a plane, maybe later will see if I can "Flutter" it.

If these "X-wings" like ASP keep entering tournaments I will be forced to do the same, but I would not like that...

@ MostExcellent  "IMHO the Flutter is by a wide margin the best non-wingstack design presented so far in the tournament."

You have no idea how many hours where put in to achieving that....

Ok. The Gladius was the plane of Slam_Jones.

[Triop]

33 minutes ago, BlueCanary said:

Ooh I'd love a guns only battle, it would make things very interesting. 

Also thanks for running the simulations with my plane, I'm having some really annoying stability issues (can't even load a single craft half the time) at the moment so it's really helpful.

I need planes to fight myself, so thank you for providing some.

Working on this now, it looks fun:

MICROFIGHTERS

"Wanna fight ?"

(sorry its a bit picture heavy, I will use "spoilers" option next time...

 

Edited December 30, 2015 by Triop

[drtricky]

2 hours ago, Triop said:

Wanna see how it went ?

Spoiler

 

 

Anyway, bluecanary, you wanted advice on your aircraft, and I tested it against my aircraft (to contest standards; this involved changing stuff like minimum altitude), and the first serious problem is its lack of guns. Your plane has excellent maneuverability and is relatively stable in turns, giving it correspondingly excellent missile dodging capability (my craft was unable to hit it with missiles in the tests). Unfortunately, in the tests, my fat Taurus was also able to dodge 90% of the missiles your plane threw at it (It was only hit once), and your plane's lack of guns resulted in this happening:

Spoiler

That there is my plane shooting down your more maneuverable fighter in a gun battle. Both times my Taurus hit your plane, it was with guns.

 

The second (potential) problem is its climb rate. My plane's eleven afterburning engines allowed it to reach the minimum altitude of 600 m several seconds faster, and start firing on it sooner. Now, your airplane's excellent maneuverability mitigated this, but keep that in mind. For reference, mostexcellent's fighter, "top kek" (which I recommend you use as a practice aircraft) only has a slightly slower climb rate than my Taurus.

 

The third potential problem is that your craft has more fuel than is necessary. Throughout the longest dogfights (when my Taurus was chasing your plane using its vulcan) your fighter did not use more than 250 units of fuel, when you have 600 units. You could cut down on fuel, and save some weight, and increase maneuverability and stability in turns.

 

Except for its lack of guns, your fighter is very competent in every other area. Nice engineering!

 

EDIT: I left the afterburners off on your airplane when testing it. So this advice may be skewed

Edited December 30, 2015 by drtricky

[Redshift OTF]

BTW, if anyone is having trouble with their plane turning too quickly by the AI and losing speed I think this can be altered by increasing the Steer Dampening setting. It makes turning smoother, retaining speed, especially twitchy planes.

[BlueCanary]

42 minutes ago, drtricky said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Anyway, bluecanary, you wanted advice on your aircraft, and I tested it against my aircraft (to contest standards; this involved changing stuff like minimum altitude), and the first serious problem is its lack of guns. Your plane has excellent maneuverability and is relatively stable in turns, giving it correspondingly excellent missile dodging capability (my craft was unable to hit it with missiles in the tests). Unfortunately, in the tests, my fat Taurus was also able to dodge 90% of the missiles your plane threw at it (It was only hit once), and your plane's lack of guns resulted in this happening:

  Reveal hidden contents

That there is my plane shooting down your more maneuverable fighter in a gun battle. Both times my Taurus hit your plane, it was with guns.

 

The second (potential) problem is its climb rate. My plane's eleven afterburning engines allowed it to reach the minimum altitude of 600 m several seconds faster, and start firing on it sooner. Now, your airplane's excellent maneuverability mitigated this, but keep that in mind. For reference, mostexcellent's fighter, "top kek" (which I recommend you use as a practice aircraft) only has a slightly slower climb rate than my Taurus.

 

The third potential problem is that your craft has more fuel than is necessary. Throughout the longest dogfights (when my Taurus was chasing your plane using its vulcan) your fighter did not use more than 250 units of fuel, when you have 600 units. You could cut down on fuel, and save some weight, and increase maneuverability and stability in turns.

 

Except for its lack of guns, your fighter is very competent in every other area. Nice engineering!

 

EDIT: I left the afterburners off on your airplane when testing it. So this advice may be skewed

 

42 minutes ago, drtricky said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Anyway, bluecanary, you wanted advice on your aircraft, and I tested it against my aircraft (to contest standards; this involved changing stuff like minimum altitude), and the first serious problem is its lack of guns. Your plane has excellent maneuverability and is relatively stable in turns, giving it correspondingly excellent missile dodging capability (my craft was unable to hit it with missiles in the tests). Unfortunately, in the tests, my fat Taurus was also able to dodge 90% of the missiles your plane threw at it (It was only hit once), and your plane's lack of guns resulted in this happening:

  Reveal hidden contents

That there is my plane shooting down your more maneuverable fighter in a gun battle. Both times my Taurus hit your plane, it was with guns.

 

The second (potential) problem is its climb rate. My plane's eleven engines allowed it to reach the minimum altitude of 600 m several seconds faster, and start firing on it sooner. Now, your airplane's excellent maneuverability mitigated this, but keep that in mind. For reference, mostexcellent's fighter, "top kek" (which I recommend you use as a practice aircraft) only has a slightly slower climb rate than my Taurus.

 

The third potential problem is that your craft has more fuel than is necessary. Throughout the longest dogfights (when my Taurus was chasing your plane using its vulcan) your fighter did not use more than 250 units of fuel, when you have 600 units. You could cut down on fuel, and save some weight, and increase maneuverability and stability in turns.

 

Except for its lack of guns, your fighter is very competent in every other area. Nice engineering!

Thanks for the advice, the lack of afterburners probably explains the low climb rate, and that fuel will probably get used up much faster with them on. I will try and add a gun somewhere, I wonder what is the general opinion, M230 or Vulcan?

Edited December 30, 2015 by BlueCanary

[drtricky]

9 minutes ago, BlueCanary said:

Thanks for the advice, the lack of afterburners probably explains the low climb rate, and that fuel will probably get used up much faster with them on. I will try and add a gun somewhere, I wonder what is the general opinion, M230 or Vulcan?

I recommend the vulcan. Much higher RoF than the m230, and 20mm bullets generally take out parts in one hit anyway

[Triop]

54 minutes ago, drtricky said:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Except for its lack of guns, your fighter is very competent in every other area. Nice engineering!

I agree:

"Wanna fight"

See how it went down:

Spoiler

 

This little guy is actualy shooting ...

Can't get a missle lock...little guy to slow (this is where a gun would be handy)

This took 10 minutes,then I just stopped, he has too much fuel...Almost embarrassing

 

Edited December 30, 2015 by Triop

[Triop]

Tip: If you use multiple mods and your computer is slow, install a second KSP game using only the BDArmor mod.

[drtricky]

My plane has been updated! Point count is the same.

[Triop]

2 hours ago, drtricky said:

My plane has been updated! Point count is the same.

Your plane has been shot down! 

MiG-15

Vulcan hidden + 2 ammo boxes, 15 points used...

Try and Die...

MiG 15 File : yeah right 

Nah just kidding, here you go :

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qxg06lhi889tzak/MiG-15.craft?dl=0

No shame here, my MiG is no joke, if anyone can beat it let me know....And yes, I am Tom Cruise.

I have seen Migs closer before

"Who needs missiles anyway, b.t.w. the flares and shaff is for show, even without them you can't hit me" Vladimir.

 

Edited December 31, 2015 by Triop

[GDJ]

^^ Kinda resembles my CF-86 I had here earlier. It's still a formidable plane, and more so since Squad updated all the engines.

Nice MIG BTW...

[ihtoit]

I need to tune the x-wing. Does great in a straight line, fantastically, in fact. Has the turning circle of a small moon, though.

[drtricky]

2 hours ago, Triop said:

Your plane has been shot down! 

MiG-15

You lying red commie scum. (Translated from capitalism: When I run the fight, this is what happens)

Spoiler

(Translated from capitalism: Your MiG gets overwhelmed by the seven AIM-120's fired at it)

Edited December 31, 2015 by drtricky

[Triop]

49 minutes ago, drtricky said:

You lying red commie scum. (Translated from capitalism: When I run the fight, this is what happens)

  Hide contents

(Translated from capitalism: Your MiG gets overwhelmed by the seven AIM-120's fired at it)

Hmmm....Is that so...I sence a challenge.

What are your fighting altitude settings ?

did we have the same ?

We need a judge.

 

 

Edited December 31, 2015 by Triop

[drtricky]

7 minutes ago, Triop said:

Hmmm....Is that so...I sence a challenge.

What are your fighting altitude settings ?

did we have the same ?

Mine was minimum 600, default 1000, just like yours

slithery red snake (Translation from capitalism: Yeah, they are the same)

1 hour ago, ihtoit said:

I need to tune the x-wing. Does great in a straight line, fantastically, in fact. Has the turning circle of a small moon, though.

That's no moon...

Edited December 31, 2015 by drtricky

[Triop]

4 minutes ago, drtricky said:

Mine was minimum 600, default 1000, just like yours

slithery red snake (Translation from capitalism: Yeah, they are the same)

I need to go to sleep now, but this snake has a tail...

I like this

[BlueCanary]

6 hours ago, Triop said:

Your plane has been shot down! 

MiG-15

Vulcan hidden + 2 ammo boxes, 15 points used...

Try and Die...

MiG 15 File : yeah right 

Nah just kidding, here you go :

https://www.dropbox.com/s/qxg06lhi889tzak/MiG-15.craft?dl=0

No shame here, my MiG is no joke, if anyone can beat it let me know....And yes, I am Tom Cruise.

 

Let's see how your mig does against my mig (very quickly thrown together MiG-21, not the most maneuverable or fastest plane but it does have missiles):

2 AIM-120, 2 Sidewinder, M230, Chaff, Flares.

Download

This is my first attempt to set up a fight, so I know it's going to go bad.

Quote

(Ok, so my computer is a jerk and didn't save any of the hundreds of screenshots I took, but what happened is your MiG-15 dodged every missile and then got on the tail of mine and after about 2 minutes of vulcan bursts and tense yanking and banking managed to shoot it down. When I tried it again, it looks like there might be a glitch in the autopilot, because whenever there's a head on merge my plane turns exactly where it shouldn't, with your plane ending up right behind it without even turning, and promptly flies into the ground. Then KSP crashed.)

Time to try the MiG-15 against some of my more maneuverable designs.

Edited December 31, 2015 by BlueCanary

[BlueCanary]

I finally managed to shoot something down with the El Quicko!

It turns out in a guns only battle, where it doesn't need energy to avoid missiles, it's actually pretty formiddable. After missing with all seven missiles - that MiG is really incredible at avoiding them, none even got close - it was able to get on the MiG-15's tail easily with it's very good slow speed maneuverability, and eventually managed to shoot it's wings off with a lucky long-ish ranged deflection shot. If there was a guns only tournament I think there's a good chance it would do quite well.

 

 

 

[BlueCanary]

Watching these fights from IVA is so much fun!

 

 

[Alphasus]

I have an idea: 3 classes of planes. So, you work your way up the classes of planes by winning matches. If you win a tournament, you're in first class. Win 3 matches, and you get 2nd class. Just starting out: 3rd class. So, if I beat every plane in 3rd class and am in 3rd class, I'll challenge a 2nd classer of my choice. If I win, anyone below and including him goes down to 3rd class. All past tournament winners are in 1st class already, regardless of rules changes. So, for example, my FA-33 is in 1st class, as the leader, along with other tournament winners like the XMF-1. 2nd class would be anyone in this tournament who takes 3 matches, and 3rd class is all new entries.

1st Class

XMF-1

FA-33 GoldenHawk

2nd Class

Flutter

Top Kek

Asp(Beat the flutter)

K-17 Canard C(beat flutter in my tests)

3rd Class

Everyone else

[BlueCanary]

What about a guns only contest at some point since it's very exciting to watch and it removes the element of luck that's there with missile kills, as to get a guns kill you pretty much have to have managed to get solidly on the six of your enemy, whilst a missile can be fired in the first two seconds of the contest and end it straight away?

Edited December 31, 2015 by BlueCanary

[Alphasus]

Just now, BlueCanary said:

What about a guns only contest at some point since it's very exciting to watch and it removes the element of luck that's there with missile kills, as to get a guns kill you pretty much have to have managed to get solidly on the six of your enemy, whilst a missile can be fired in the first two seconds of the contest and end it straight away?

I think part of combat is having a plane designed to not lose its energy while avoiding fire.

[Triop]

Wow, Blue, I like your MiG-21...Untill it shot me down

"Damn, this kid is good"

 

[Alphasus]

I have a plane that comfortably bests the Canard C...

[Triop]

31 minutes ago, Alphasus said:

I have an idea: 3 classes of planes. So, you work your way up the classes of planes by winning matches. If you win a tournament, you're in first class. Win 3 matches, and you get 2nd class. Just starting out: 3rd class. So, if I beat every plane in 3rd class and am in 3rd class, I'll challenge a 2nd classer of my choice. If I win, anyone below and including him goes down to 3rd class. All past tournament winners are in 1st class already, regardless of rules changes. So, for example, my FA-33 is in 1st class, as the leader, along with other tournament winners like the XMF-1. 2nd class would be anyone in this tournament who takes 3 matches, and 3rd class is all new entries.

1st Class

XMF-1

FA-33 GoldenHawk

2nd Class

Flutter

Top Kek

Asp(Beat the flutter)

K-17 Canard C(beat flutter in my tests)

3rd Class

Everyone else

Didn't XMF-1 hacked the cfg file to set his firing interval to 0.1 ?