Top Gun AI - The Official Tournament Thread

[SasquatchM]

There was a great deal of discussion about box planes, but no ban came about.  The majority, if I remember correctly, was "it should look plane-like", but no actual hard and fast definitions.

 

If you would rather limit the wing styles, be my guest.  I enjoy working out new solutions.

Edited December 27, 2015 by SasquatchM

[drtricky]

I'll ask again, does this contest require the usage of FAR? I have a morbidly obese very heavy (40+ tonnes empty), rocket-like fighter-bomber that I'd like to enter. (Note: does not use rocket engines)

Edited December 27, 2015 by drtricky

[SasquatchM]

No FAR in this challenge

[BlueCanary]

11 hours ago, SasquatchM said:

There was a great deal of discussion about box planes, but no ban came about.  The majority, if I remember correctly, was "it should look plane-like", but no actual hard and fast definitions.

 

If you would rather limit the wing styles, be my guest.  I enjoy working out new solutions.

If you do end up having to work out a new wing design, I recommend trying the Fat-455/Big-S parts, they seem to have a much higher relative wing area for the same sized wing as the normal parts (a Big-S delta has a relative wing area of 5 but isn't much bigger than a normal delta with an area of 2), helping you get the wing loading nice and low without having to have massive wings or multi-wing designs.

[drtricky]

Great! Because I'm having AI problems. Despite my plane weighing 40 tons, it has a surprising amount of maneuverability, but the AI never utilizes its full turning power, resulting in a high turning radius. Can anyone explain to me what Steering factor, damping and limiter are?

Edited December 27, 2015 by drtricky

[Redshift OTF]

Wow, this thread is awesome! I would like to submit my plane for consideration...the FF 102.

It is good enough to take out SasquatchM's Asp about 50% of the time. Depends on if it can survive the Amram joust at the beggining.

Aim-120 x4 = 16

Flares x4 = 12

Chaff x4 = 8

50 cal Turret x4 = 16

Ammo box x2 = 8

Total = 60

http://www./download/73zu8mjqi9p3815/FF_102_1g.craft

Let me know if it is worthy!

[Redshift OTF]

Also the guy who made BD armoury made a mod called Vessel Mover. It allows you to pick up crafts with Alt+P, move them with WASD controls and turn them with J & L. You can then setup your fights before pressing space, turn on all the autopilots and then press space and next craft really quickly till all the planes are activated.

[drtricky]

I've encountered several instances of my fighter being able to fly and maintain altitude despite having both wings blown off, but being next to impossible to land. Would that count as a win or a loss? (assuming the opponent was completely knocked out)

Edited December 27, 2015 by drtricky

[SasquatchM]

1 hour ago, Redshift OTF said:

Wow, this thread is awesome! I would like to submit my plane for consideration...the FF 102.

It is good enough to take out SasquatchM's Asp about 50% of the time. Depends on if it can survive the Amram joust at the beggining.

Aim-120 x4 = 16

Flares x4 = 12

Chaff x4 = 8

50 cal Turret x4 = 16

Ammo box x2 = 8

Total = 60

http://www./download/73zu8mjqi9p3815/FF_102_1g.craft

Let me know if it is worthy!

I like the design, but i think the pop-up turrets are a no go.  The planes just shoot each other on the ground, depending on the setup, or dodging is almost impossible.  I could be wrong though, in which case I have some more tweaking to do.

 

That is really cool though! I have been trying a 3 engine design, but keep having stability issues.

 

edit; Apparently I need to learn to read. I was looking at the last tournament rules, not the first page rules.

Edited December 27, 2015 by SasquatchM

[Redshift OTF]

Yeah I was going by the first page rules. The turrets have had all gimbaling turned off, they can only fire forward, otherwise it would be a bit unfair. XD I wanted to use them for a change as I like the shotgun effect of having 4 of them. I don't know if they are more effective than vulcan cannons though.

Try it out. See if it compares to yours!

[Triop]

2 hours ago, Redshift OTF said:

Also the guy who made BD armoury made a mod called Vessel Mover. It allows you to pick up crafts with Alt+P, move them with WASD controls and turn them with J & L. You can then setup your fights before pressing space, turn on all the autopilots and then press space and next craft really quickly till all the planes are activated.

I've been looking for something like that, thanks !

This is great and easy to use, I love it !

Edited December 27, 2015 by Triop

[Redshift OTF]

Glad it works! You can also press tab to cycle through the movement speed. I think you can move stuff to the pole really quickly.

[Triop]

37 minutes ago, Redshift OTF said:

Glad it works! You can also press tab to cycle through the movement speed. I think you can move stuff to the pole really quickly.

Thanks, I have a submission you guys can play with : https://www.dropbox.com/s/dhbecqa42p6r5bq/Ariel%20II.craft?dl=0

I don't think it will win, but it will sure give you a hard time !

B.t.w, why do you use so much wings ?

 

 

[Triop]

CLASH OF THE TITANS !

With in the left corner: Redshift OTF :  FF 102

And in the right corner we have: SasquatchM :  Asp Mk4 A

Want to know who won ?

(I did not mess with settings, planes are straight the downloaded files)

Spoiler

Lift off !

FF 102 fires first !

Asp Mk4 A avoids all missiles !

Asp Mk4 is looking for a attack position...

...No use, FF 102 is getting on his tail !

Asp Mk4 A is taking damage...

FF 102 starts firing bullets like a mad man !

Asp Mk4 A couldn't bite more bullets...

Game over, FF 102 wins !

.

 

 

 

Edited December 28, 2015 by Triop

[Redshift OTF]

Haha, nice one! Nicely presented battle. I suspect not all the battles will end up like that one though. I will try yours tomorrow.

The philosophy I use at the moment is 1) add loads of control surfaces to make turning easier. This however makes the plane flip out so... 2) add more static wing. That way it forces you plane to go in the direction you turn. But that leads to loss of speed so... 3) add more thrust! It's working at the moment anyway.

Another method I am trying is all the control surfaces on the back and just add static wing to the front. But it needs more testing.

[SasquatchM]

I am working on a few tweaks now, several in the AI settings and possibly a couple design changes.

[Triop]

8 minutes ago, Redshift OTF said:

Haha, nice one! Nicely presented battle. I suspect not all the battles will end up like that one though. I will try yours tomorrow.

The philosophy I use at the moment is 1) add loads of control surfaces to make turning easier. This however makes the plane flip out so... 2) add more static wing. That way it forces you plane to go in the direction you turn. But that leads to loss of speed so... 3) add more thrust! It's working at the moment anyway.

Another method I am trying is all the control surfaces on the back and just add static wing to the front. But it needs more testing.

Thanks for the information. I must say I don't like stacking wings, it makes planes look silly

I like it small, fast and supermaneuvrable.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Triop

[colmo]

I have been meaning to build custom dogfighting arenas for months, but work and Kerbal Konstructs breaking got in the way. KK is now patched, so...

How To:

Instead of back-to-back launches, use KK to build two bases (one runway per plane) about 10km apart. Setup radar installations (on launchpads) at each and link planes to them. From a launch pad halfway between both, launch two rockets with weapon managers, one for each team. The radars pick them up and scrambles their planes. By the time they get anywhere near the rockets, the rockets will be out of power, destroyed or staged into a dead state - they were the starting pistol only. However, as the planes of each team will now be on each other's radar, they'll fight each other.

VesselMover will be immeasurably useful in placing dummy craft at prime base locations to begin konstruction.

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/topic/116352-discussion-thread-bd-armory-ai-tournaments/&do=findComment&comment=2122170

Edited December 28, 2015 by colmo
Additional idea

[SasquatchM]

1 hour ago, Triop said:

Thanks for the information. I must say I don't like stacking wings, it makes planes look silly

I like it small, fast and supermaneuvrable.

Get with the times! It's the return of Bi- and Tri- planes!

[SasquatchM]

Adder Mk3 A

 

Should be 60 pts on the head, no pics yet , but try it out.

[Triop]

10 minutes ago, SasquatchM said:

Adder Mk3 A

 

Should be 60 pts on the head, no pics yet , but try it out.

Let me host the pics of your "spaceship"

I'm not even going to try to fight it...Unless I build a craft with 6 engines

Edited December 28, 2015 by Triop

[drtricky]

18 minutes ago, Triop said:

I'm not even going to try to fight it...Unless I build a craft with 6 engines

My fighter-bomber has six panther engines and one whiplash. I think that'd be quite the worthy challenger 

Edited December 28, 2015 by drtricky

[Triop]

2 hours ago, SasquatchM said:

I am working on a few tweaks now, several in the AI settings and possibly a couple design changes.

Maybe we should make rules about these settings so we all have the same settings in battle (e.g. 1500 - 600 settings for altitude)

Rules are vage here b.t.w. but for now we all depend on the intelligence of the IA pilots

Edited December 28, 2015 by Triop

[Triop]

19 minutes ago, drtricky said:

My fighter-bomber has six panther engines and one whiplash. I think that'd be quite the worthy challenger 

Ok, bring it i'd say... I'd like to run some fightsimulations.

This is a challenge tread, not ?

[drtricky]

There is an issue with the rules related to which fighter has the fastest climb rate. I was testing my heavy fighter-bomber against a much smaller, lighter, more nimble fighter I designed (which I'm not entering because I designed it in 15 minutes. It wouldn't feel like a challenge to me if I entered it), and my fighter-bomber won 70% of the battles mainly because its faster climb rate (thanks to it having seven engines compared to the other's single engine) allowed it to reach the minimum altitude faster and engage sooner with its AIM-120's (Both planes had a minimum altitude of 900).

The fighter-bomber shouldn't have won because due to the dumb AI, it bled a ton of speed when trying to point itself towards the enemy or dodging missiles, and thus bled maneuverability. On the rare occasions the fighters got caught in a turning battle, the smaller fighter held the clear advantage. What this means is that in the beginning, climb rate is a significant factor in the battle. Too significant.

Perhaps instead of having the fighters take off relatively close to each other with the AI turned on, they should be flown a significant distance away (enough so that the AI won't engage each other when turned on), and then turned towards each other and then have the AI turned on.

40 minutes ago, Triop said:

Ok, bring it i'd say... I'd like to run some fightsimulations.

This is a challenge tread, not ?

Well, actually...my fighter-bomber is currently poorly fit for combat because I need to investigate why exactly the plane, when driven by AI, is being an idiot when it comes to turning. If I were to send it in as it were, it would lose 99% of the time. It's only redeeming quality at the moment is its sports car-like acceleration.

It is a worthy challenger in terms of engine count 

Edited December 28, 2015 by drtricky