[1.2.x] Aviator Arsenal - World War 2 aircraft weaponry (v1.3)

[BlueDragon1504]

19 minutes ago, EthanKerbman said:

For those waiting for 1.3 compatibility, just remove the plugin (it just adds code for the Jericho Trumpets) from v1.3 for 1.2.x and it will load without crashing, everything will work as intended except the Jericho Trumpet but it's not game or save breaking.

Awh, my stuka will have to wait then.... Thanks for the tip!

[EthanKerbman]

You can still put them on, they just won't make sound or rotate until the plugin is updated.

[Toonu]

Is the ammo etc updated to new BDA ammo and armor penetration? When you remove the dll? 

@tetryds Yes, BDA now has armor penetration stuff, so that's only thing that can be balanced, if it won't be that hard....

Edited July 1, 2017 by Toonu

[tetryds]

On 6/30/2017 at 1:29 PM, Toonu said:

if it won't be that hard....

If the penetration is based on actual physical properties of the bullet (that are already there) and properly implemented it shouldn't require any balancing at all.

That is not an easy thing to do, so I doubt it was implemented like that, in which case it's ridiculously hard to balance.

I have a personal project on focus right now, and cannot devote enough time to Aviator Arsenal to balance that.

But if someone balanced it perfectly I would happily add it to the mod, just like I did with the sounds and stuff.

[Toonu]

I can try it next week then.

Hope that will help you.  And other people wanting this mod.

Maybe tomorrow, I'll do it, who knows...who knows...

Edited July 1, 2017 by Toonu

[Toonu]

Figured out that only thing that is needed is switch from your own defined ammo types

(7mm, .50cal, 13mm, 20mm, 23mm, 30mm, 40mm, 75mm, 2.75in rockets) you should switch to intermod recognized ammo types which are:

(7.62x39Ammo, 50CalAmmo, 20x102Ammo, 23x152Ammo, 30x173Ammo or 30x173HEAmmo, 40x311Ammo, 75×714Ammo, ATRocket or Type4Rocket) Actually there are 3x more from each type like: 7.62x39Ammo, 7.7x56Ammo, 7.92×57mmMauser only from .30cal. 

This way, you can use universal ammo boxes, instead of your own boxes, thus planes won't need anymore .50cal box for your front guns and .50CalAmmo box for back turret from other mod. This way you can balance it. And because you are busy, I will pull request soon my proposed changes when I will convert all the guns to universal ammo(hear BDA ammo used by all weapons submods turrets).

After I do all the changes, I will test it on new armor made by guys from BDA to figure out balance.  

Have a nice day!

Ave! Toonu

EDIT: Ok, no pull requests because you have only jericho files on Git, I ll post changes there then.

Edited July 2, 2017 by Toonu

[alp3r]

@Toonu Great work so far man, keep it up! 

@tetryds I'm working on a sound revamp since the old sounds are really gravelly, aren't accurate and just not up to the standards. Everything except for the M2 and VYa-23 are done, if Audition CC didn't screw me over for 2 hours I'd have completed 'em but still; I think everybody will like these a lot more. 

[BlueDragon1504]

2 hours ago, Toonu said:

Figured out that only thing that is needed is switch from your own defined ammo types

(7mm, .50cal, 13mm, 20mm, 23mm, 30mm, 40mm, 75mm, 2.75in rockets) you should switch to intermod recognized ammo types which are:

(7.62x39Ammo, 50CalAmmo, 20x102Ammo, 23x152Ammo, 30x173Ammo or 30x173HEAmmo, 40x311Ammo, 75×714Ammo, ATRocket or Type4Rocket) Actually there are 3x more from each type like: 7.62x39Ammo, 7.7x56Ammo, 7.92×57mmMauser only from .30cal. 

This way, you can use universal ammo boxes, instead of your own boxes, thus planes won't need anymore .50cal box for your front guns and .50CalAmmo box for back turret from other mod. This way you can balance it. And because you are busy, I will pull request soon my proposed changes when I will convert all the guns to universal ammo(hear BDA ammo used by all weapons submods turrets).

After I do all the changes, I will test it on new armor made by guys from BDA to figure out balance.  

Have a nice day!

Ave! Toonu

EDIT: Ok, no pull requests because you have only jericho files on Git, I ll post changes there then.

Nice! But armour from the peeps at bda? I haven't heard of this before. I did recently find out that structural plates don't work anymore so tanks and stuff won't work anymore, unless you use spanner monkey's english, modern tank prebuilds. So what exactly is this armour?

[Toonu]

1 minute ago, BlueDragon1504 said:

Nice! But armour from the peeps at bda? I haven't heard of this before. I did recently find out that structural plates don't work anymore so tanks and stuff won't work anymore, unless you use spanner monkey's english, modern tank prebuilds. So what exactly is this armour?

Yes, in BDA 0.2.1.2 are new armor parts used with the new bullet and penetration system. That's why I want to update this mod to this system. Old guns simply doesn't penetrate new armor, which I guess will be used everywhere now.

 

[BlueDragon1504]

34 minutes ago, Toonu said:

Yes, in BDA 0.2.1.2 are new armor parts used with the new bullet and penetration system. That's why I want to update this mod to this system. Old guns simply doesn't penetrate new armor, which I guess will be used everywhere now.

 

Oh, I'll have to check that out then. Thanks!

[Toonu]

18 minutes ago, BlueDragon1504 said:

Oh, I'll have to check that out then. Thanks!

Of course I am searching for all the bullet sizes on the internet, trying to match them with BDA ammo. Alp3r also agreed to incorporate his new sounds into my release.

Edited July 2, 2017 by Toonu

[Toonu]

Ok, I also fixed jericho from Stuka. All guns working, using all ammo from BDA universal ammo list. Added just one ammo (13mm for MG 131 with similar stats as 12.7mm). Now waiting only for sound files from alp3r. Expect release in next few hours.

Unfortunately, because of compatibility with all other BDA submods I changed ammo in all guns. That means you don't have to have 2-3 different ammo boxes for .50cal, on the other side, all old ammo boxes were moved to legacy and will be without ammo once loaded in KSP. I could remove them, but that would mean all planes/crafts with that ammo boxes broken, unable to load. So with legacy, they will be there, but won't serve any purpose. You can of course replace them with BDA universal ammo box instead. That is the main purpose of the legacy mark. It simply means - replace it! In next release, they will be removed. When you won't remove them from crafts, they will simply broke in next release. I also make pull request to implement 13mm ammo into BDA universal ammo box, thus even 13mm box will be removed in next release. @alp3r @BlueDragon1504

Thank you for listening!

Ave! Toonu

 

Edited July 2, 2017 by Toonu

[tetryds]

12 hours ago, Toonu said:

Figured out that only thing that is needed is switch from your own defined ammo types

No, this is not going to happen.

There are custom ammo types and ammo boxes for a reason, and that is because stock ammo crates are ridiculously badly balanced.

The custom ammo also has it's own mass which is not the same as the default ones, and the boxes carry a realistic amount of bullets.

I'm glad that you guys are so interested on maintaining it and I fully support that. Just remember that this mod is All Rights Reserved so changes will require my approval to be shared publicly, thus I will check it out before releasing to make sure everything is ok.

About the ammo, instead of changing the weapons simply make a module manager config to make them compatible. It doesn't require any approval and I can link to it on this thread then.

Edited July 2, 2017 by tetryds

[Toonu]

5 minutes ago, tetryds said:

No, this is not going to happen.

There are custom ammo types and ammo boxes for a reason, and that is because stock ammo crates are ridiculously badly balanced.

The custom ammo also has it's own mass which is not the same as the default ones, and the boxes carry a realistic amount of bullets.

I'm glad that you guys are so interested on maintaining it and I fully support that. Just remember that this mod is All Rights Reserved so changes will require my approval to be shared publicly, thus I will check it out before releasing to make sure everything is ok.

About the ammo, instead of changing the weapons simply make a module manager config to make them compatible. It doesn't require any approval and I can link to it on this thread then.

Ok, balance it yourself, because you know the real stats of each bullet on each hundred of meters. Other way is just use BDA penetration ammo...

Like...its...I will send u the pack later

Edited July 2, 2017 by Toonu

[tetryds]

By the way, unless something changed drastically the ammo resource doesn't have anything to do with the bullet properties, it's just a random resource that gets consumed, the weapon dictates how the shot behaves.

You can make weapons fire using liquid fuel, lol.

[Toonu]

And what about the recompiled dll, is it too problem? I...why not use BDA ammo, when every mod use it? Boxes are scalable so where is the problem? I always scaled your boxes, because they had too low/much ammo anyway.

1 minute ago, tetryds said:

By the way, unless something changed drastically the ammo resource doesn't have anything to do with the bullet properties, it's just a random resource that gets consumed, the weapon dictates how the shot behaves.

You can make weapons fire using liquid fuel, lol.

 

[Toonu]

Actually sorry for my reaction, I was bit annoyed that I was doing it some hours and then I can't even use it. But on the other side I was searching for each gun to match size of bullets with BDA. I was doing it most realistic as possible. I will make then MM patch to share ammo with all other BDA mods then.

Want the edited mod to see what is changed? I only see no reason in making each type of ammo different from all others...sorry, didn't want to be rude.

Edited July 2, 2017 by Toonu

[gomker]

On 7/2/2017 at 1:48 PM, tetryds said:

By the way, unless something changed drastically the ammo resource doesn't have anything to do with the bullet properties, it's just a random resource that gets consumed, the weapon dictates how the shot behaves.

You can make weapons fire using liquid fuel, lol.

@tetryds 

There have been some significant updates to the ammo/bullet configurations - here are some docs we started, they are a bit thin right now and we are working to get them improved

https://github.com/PapaJoesSoup/BDArmory/wiki/Bullet-Configuration

https://github.com/PapaJoesSoup/BDArmory/wiki/Armor

https://github.com/PapaJoesSoup/BDArmory/blob/master/BahaTurret/Distribution/GameData/BDArmory/BulletDefs/BD_Bullets.cfg  -- bulletType configurations with penetration curves

 

They will only need to be configured if you would like them to work with the new armor system, if not configured the bullets will revert back to the old damage model and not interact with any Armor panels.

Here are some of the new properties

		ammoName = 50CalAmmo
		bulletType = 12.7mmBullet 
		bulletMass = 5.40133e-5
		bulletVelocity = 860		
		bulletDmgMult = 1.1 // new property for small caliber, damage multiplier if needed
		

Getting the message out to mod makers was a bit messy. Let me know if you have any questions about the new features if you choose to use them.

Regards,

 

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

As an aside to all the above.  BDA welcomes further Ammunition and bullet sweep  details, the more it has the better it will be.  ( worth stating that they'll all be tested and confirmed as not fantasy before being included)

ALL current AA ammunition will work within the new system and requires no changes ,  and from what i can see in Toonu''s postings there is already a bullet size suitable for most  AA weapons, converting them over is a simple matter of patching in the bulletType = xx to the cfg.  That is all that's needed, yes you can go the whole way but there is really no need.  

I fully appreciate tetryds view on it all, having spent a ludicrous amount of time making sure his products behaved as he wanted. Not an easy task.  For my part it was much easier to fully adopt (and create part of ) the system  as up until 1.2 my mods paid little attention to such things so I had nothing to lose and a lot to gain.

[Edlu Kerman]

I'm crashing while loading 7mm ammo boxes, I deleted the "plugins" folder. Any help?

[Toonu]

On 5. 7. 2017 at 3:12 PM, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

As an aside to all the above.  BDA welcomes further Ammunition and bullet sweep  details, the more it has the better it will be.  ( worth stating that they'll all be tested and confirmed as not fantasy before being included)

ALL current AA ammunition will work within the new system and requires no changes ,  and from what i can see in Toonu''s postings there is already a bullet size suitable for most  AA weapons, converting them over is a simple matter of patching in the bulletType = xx to the cfg.  That is all that's needed, yes you can go the whole way but there is really no need.  

I fully appreciate tetryds view on it all, having spent a ludicrous amount of time making sure his products behaved as he wanted. Not an easy task.  For my part it was much easier to fully adopt (and create part of ) the system  as up until 1.2 my mods paid little attention to such things so I had nothing to lose and a lot to gain.

Yes, I did it all, changed stats and added penetration models. But I m still waiting for aproval of tetryds, cause I sent him my changes, and from that time nothing new...

[Guest]

On 7/12/2017 at 11:13 AM, Edlu Kerman said:

I'm crashing while loading 7mm ammo boxes, I deleted the "plugins" folder. Any help?

Well we could help you but first you got to cut the .log from the file trees in Fileland

Edited July 15, 2017 by Murican_Jeb
mee not no howw tu spel

[JediRangerkendor]

-Waits for the official update-

[V7 Aerospace]

1 hour ago, JediRangerkendor said:

-Waits for the official update-

Did you know, instead of waiting, it actually works with the current version?

[JediRangerkendor]

9 hours ago, V7 Aerospace said:

Did you know, instead of waiting, it actually works with the current version?

Yes, but its always nice to have an official one.