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[Min KSP: 1.12.2] Pathfinder - Space Camping & Geoscience


Angelo Kerman

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10 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

@ZeroA4: Found the issue, thanks for the bug report. I'll have a hotfix shortly. :)

Wow! Thanks for the fast update! I was afraid of having been too confusing with my broken english!

I have already tested and it is working perfectly! Thanks again!

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2 hours ago, ZeroA4 said:

Wow! Thanks for the fast update! I was afraid of having been too confusing with my broken english!

I have already tested and it is working perfectly! Thanks again!

Great, glad you like it. :)

 

4 hours ago, max1982 said:

Angel-125

Thank you so much for the mod Pathfinder,and I want to ask you to add mounting points on the bottom of the inflatable modules ???

Nodes on the bottom of the modules? Which ones? The Ponderosa (habitat in a box) has one already. What do you need mounting points on the bottom for?

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 The Ponderosa (habitat in a box) has one already. (Everything is wonderful here ).

the point I would like the modules are without boxes,whatever they were off and didn't do boom,now you can pin only for the entrance 

Spoiler

Nqs1IIt.jpg?1

 

maybe I something doing wrong ???

Edited by max1982
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Howdy @Angel-125-

I'm giving this a try and really like it.  I have, however, found a few problems with the 9.9 build.  There are lots of other mods installed so I'm not sure if there are conflicts, but I figured I'd report what I'm seeing (couldn't find a list of known issues).

1.  Deflated Chuckwagons Fly Away:  When manipulating a deflated Chuckwagon with KIS/KAS and you drop it on the ground, it immediately goes flying off about 15-20m to the NNW, tumbling a bit, as if blown away by the wind.  It will also sometimes explode while moving like this.  This is the only inflatable module I've had this problem with.

2.  Gaslights Explode:  The Gaslights very frequently (but not quite always) explode in the following circumstances:

  • I switch via [ and ] to the base after installing Gaslights with a Kerbal on EVA (happens nearly always)
  • The Gaslights somehow survive that so then I warp until dark to turn them on.  As soon as I return to 1x time, the Gaslights explode
  • NOTE:  Sometimes the initial Saddle under the 1st Ponderosa, to which the Gaslights are attached, explodes as well
  • NOTE:  I suspect this is due to some sort of pent-up phantom force.  When I link the Gaslights to Saddles and each other, they usually twist and translate slightly.

3.  Turning Module LIghts On and Off Causes Kraken-Dance:  This only seems to happen after the initial Saddle has blown up as in #2, so the whole base is just sitting loose on the ground.  But it's still rather odd.  Using the light toggle switch by the altimeter to turn the base module lights on or off makes each module start squirming and wriggling.  This goes on for a couple seconds, then everything is still until I hit the light switch again.

--------------------------

But otherwise, this is a lot of fun.  As with most KIS/KAS-related construction, I have to learn its limits.  Any of the various ground-attached mounting points can only have so many other parts (themselves sitting on but not attached to the the ground) connected to it before the forces of terrain clipping break things.  I have learned you definitely shouldn't expect to build an entire base of each type of module off a single Saddle :)  So now I'm trying to figure out what the upper survivable limit is.

Anyway, great mod and keep up the good work.

 

.

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11 minutes ago, Geschosskopf said:

1.  Deflated Chuckwagons Fly Away:  When manipulating a deflated Chuckwagon with KIS/KAS and you drop it on the ground, it immediately goes flying off about 15-20m to the NNW, tumbling a bit, as if blown away by the wind.  It will also sometimes explode while moving like this.  This is the only inflatable module I've had this problem with.

I'm sure you are aware, you basically should never drop anything on EVA utilizing KIS/KAS.  Physics interactions in this scenario that have led to bouncing, flying, and exploding have always existed in KSP and is a fundamental game issue.

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Exploding gaslights (see what I did there?) is likely a result of terrain issues, not much I can do about that. One thing I do is mount them on top of the Ponderosa. Turning ob the light causing the willies... I have not encountered that one, I'd need logs to help.

@max1982: the non-boxed modules are designed to be attached to the circular ports on modules like the Ponderosa, not set on the ground. For instance you can attach them to a Switchback.

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2 hours ago, goldenpsp said:

I'm sure you are aware, you basically should never drop anything on EVA utilizing KIS/KAS.  Physics interactions in this scenario that have led to bouncing, flying, and exploding have always existed in KSP and is a fundamental game issue.

Yeah, but sometimes it just happens.  Assume for a moment that you forgot to hit R before attaching the Chuckwagon to something.  You have to totally remove it because as long as it's still there, it'll be in its own way of putting it back on.  So you go to drag it back into your inventory and miss due to FPS suddenly dropping while KAC autosaves or something, or your mouse buttons are about worn out and won't maintain your hold on the button, or whatever, and it ends up on the ground.  With other Pathfinder parts, no problem.  But the Chuckwagon blows away on the Texas wind, even in vacuum :D

6 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

Exploding gaslights (see what I did there?) is likely a result of terrain issues, not much I can do about that. One thing I do is mount them on top of the Ponderosa. Turning ob the light causing the willies... I have not encountered that one, I'd need logs to help.

Well, I determined that the exploding lights must have been related to building too big a base off a single saddle.  I redid everything with a max of 4 modules per saddle and the lights stayed intact.

So, for the nonce, my base architecture is based on either a Ponderosa on a saddle and a max of 3 radially attached modules, or a Switchback on a saddle with 4 radially attached modules.  Then I link these "neighborhoods" together with pipes or Mineshafts.

While I've got your attention, is there anything inherently wrong with attaching antennae and solar panels to the inflatables?  I haven't run into any problems doing that (my Kerbals demand satellite TV dishes on their habs) and I don't plan on deflating anything (the Ponderosa looks WAY more comfortable inside than competing hardshell modules), but I thought I'd ask.

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1 hour ago, Geschosskopf said:

Yeah, but sometimes it just happens.  Assume for a moment that you forgot to hit R before attaching the Chuckwagon to something.  You have to totally remove it because as long as it's still there, it'll be in its own way of putting it back on.  So you go to drag it back into your inventory and miss due to FPS suddenly dropping while KAC autosaves or something, or your mouse buttons are about worn out and won't maintain your hold on the button, or whatever, and it ends up on the ground.  With other Pathfinder parts, no problem.  But the Chuckwagon blows away on the Texas wind, even in vacuum :D

Well, I determined that the exploding lights must have been related to building too big a base off a single saddle.  I redid everything with a max of 4 modules per saddle and the lights stayed intact.

So, for the nonce, my base architecture is based on either a Ponderosa on a saddle and a max of 3 radially attached modules, or a Switchback on a saddle with 4 radially attached modules.  Then I link these "neighborhoods" together with pipes or Mineshafts.

While I've got your attention, is there anything inherently wrong with attaching antennae and solar panels to the inflatables?  I haven't run into any problems doing that (my Kerbals demand satellite TV dishes on their habs) and I don't plan on deflating anything (the Ponderosa looks WAY more comfortable inside than competing hardshell modules), but I thought I'd ask.

Yeah, I'm finding that large bases eventually get hit by the Kraken, but it depends upon where you place them. I'm considering some kind of distributed system so you can make smaller bases in places where the terrain is questionable.

I have not seen the lights issue you had though. Below is an example of the lights working fine.

Z2iHOYV.jpg

Nothing wrong with attaching stuff to the inflatables. :)

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18 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

Yeah, I'm finding that large bases eventually get hit by the Kraken, but it depends upon where you place them. I'm considering some kind of distributed system so you can make smaller bases in places where the terrain is questionable....

You mean like the "rover logistics" in MKS?  That would be nice, provided you let it work autonomously in the background instead of it requiring manual direction.  What I enjoy doing in KSP is flying and driving stuff around other planets.  Sometimes this requires a base to support the vehicles I'm using, but the base is just that:  supporting infrastructure, not the actual mission.  So I don't like having to take time away from what I consider the fun stuff to micromanage complex base systems that have so many variables in their operations that you can't definitely say why it does what it does, and you spend all your time fiddling with the base instead of flying rockets.  I like my bases as cut-and-dry as building rockets:  X payload + Y fuel + Z engine = exactly so much dV at all  points in the mission :D

Anyway, as to building bases, I so far am having success with my 4-module bases.  If you put a Switchback on the Saddle and 4 radial modules, you can put the Gaslight on top of the Switchback.  Then you can make another such installation a bit away at a 45^ angle.  If you rotate the Gaslights 45^ on top of their Switchbacks, the pipe connection between them is straight and high enough off the ground to walk under and not to trip over (not that it stops you anyway, it just looks better).  And it's you can rovers (at least low-clearance ones) through the middle of the base instead of having to go all the way around.

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Sounds cool, thanks for sharing your building tips. :) If you have pictures I'll be happy to credit your work and showcase them. :)

I'm aiming for the KISS principle for Pathfinder, so that means making things only as complex as necessary to get the job done. Think semi-casual player instead of hardcore gamer. That will turn off some folks but oh well, I'm not a hardcore gamer...

For logistics I see the Ponderosa hab template or perhaps the Switchback being used as the coordinator for sharing resources. Hit a switch to opt in and you're done, everything is handled automagically. Any base within physics range that has opted in will evenly distribute their resources, unless you lock the resource (so you can keep your required resource). Even better would be for the resource distributor to automagically ignore resources in a part that are required for a converter. That way your greenhouse won't lose its Dirt and shut down. It will be an interesting design challenge to figure out. :)

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2 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

... I don't like having to take time away from what I consider the fun stuff to micromanage complex base systems that have so many variables in their operations that you can't definitely say why it does what it does, and you spend all your time fiddling with the base instead of flying rockets...

 

3 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

...I'm aiming for the KISS principle for Pathfinder, so that means making things only as complex as necessary to get the job done. Think semi-casual player instead of hardcore gamer. That will turn off some folks but oh well, I'm not a hardcore gamer...

 

I really like the direction you are heading with this. I really like bases because they can be a complex, multipart payload for a big mission and it is fun to put thought into realish challenges of space exploration. But I agree that it can become too fussy to actually manage.

<Big Idea>

Turn base management into a Farmville style iphone game, then KSP players can outsource base management to other folks who like to play OCD upkeep games!

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5 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

Sounds cool, thanks for sharing your building tips. :) If you have pictures I'll be happy to credit your work and showcase them. :)

I'm flattered, but surely somebody's thought of that before?  Anyway, I'll try to put some pics together this weekend.

5 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

I'm aiming for the KISS principle for Pathfinder, so that means making things only as complex as necessary to get the job done. Think semi-casual player instead of hardcore gamer. That will turn off some folks but oh well, I'm not a hardcore gamer...

Yay!  And I like how you've got the major potentially irksome things like malfunctions as toggles.

But speaking of that, is there a way to remap the Alt-P for the settings menu to something else?  Vessel Mover uses the same combo (so can cause problems when building a base :D ) and I had it installed first so it's got dibs   Or maybe I can figure a way to remap Vessel Mover

5 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

For logistics I see the Ponderosa hab template or perhaps the Switchback being used as the coordinator for sharing resources. Hit a switch to opt in and you're done, everything is handled automagically. Any base within physics range that has opted in will evenly distribute their resources, unless you lock the resource (so you can keep your required resource). Even better would be for the resource distributor to automagically ignore resources in a part that are required for a converter. That way your greenhouse won't lose its Dirt and shut down. It will be an interesting design challenge to figure out. :)

I ;like that.  But what about for like 3-5km?  That way you could reduce part-count issues and still be within reasonable rover distance.  But OTOH,going 64-bit might remove the part-count problem anyway so I'd wait and see on that.

***************

And now I have a question.....  I seem to not understand the Claim Jumper because it always says "no processes"---IOW, it doesn't do anything.  So, does it have built-in drills or do I need to attach regular drills?  Do I have to do the whole core sample thing with the Geo Lab before the Claim Jumper will work?  Or what?

Also, I had a bug with the Gold Digger.  I saw on right-click menu for it the option "modify drill".  When I clicked on this, a box popped up that said "Drill Modifications" at the top but was otherwise blank, and this box would not go away  it had no button to close it and ESC just brought up the regular KSP menu, which didn't show up well because of the "Modify Drill" Box.  And as long as that box was up, the "Manage Operations" menu was invisible unless I dragged it through the "Modify Drills" box, when part of it would show in that box.  The only way I could get rid of this was to change scene to the space center.  Is that a known issue?

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Just an FYI in case anybody looks here: my overheating/exploding base problem with FlightIntegrator was actually caused by FAR, and has been fixed in the latest version (0.15.5.5 as of this moment). Any vessel with a ModuleCoreHeat was loading with temperatures of thousands of degrees and usually immolating itself. Not any more. :)

Also, I had a bug with the Gold Digger.  I saw on right-click menu for it the option "modify drill".  When I clicked on this, a box popped up that said "Drill Modifications" at the top but was otherwise blank, and this box would not go away  it had no button to close it and ESC just brought up the regular KSP menu, which didn't show up well because of the "Modify Drill" Box.  And as long as that box was up, the "Manage Operations" menu was invisible unless I dragged it through the "Modify Drills" box, when part of it would show in that box.  The only way I could get rid of this was to change scene to the space center.  Is that a known issue?

@Geschosskopf: I've had that with the drills. For me it happens with any drill, not just the Gold Digger. Clicking the "modify drill" button again sometimes brings the dialog box up properly.

Edited by Bluebottle
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12 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

I'm flattered, but surely somebody's thought of that before?  Anyway, I'll try to put some pics together this weekend.

Yay!  And I like how you've got the major potentially irksome things like malfunctions as toggles.

But speaking of that, is there a way to remap the Alt-P for the settings menu to something else?  Vessel Mover uses the same combo (so can cause problems when building a base :D ) and I had it installed first so it's got dibs   Or maybe I can figure a way to remap Vessel Mover

I ;like that.  But what about for like 3-5km?  That way you could reduce part-count issues and still be within reasonable rover distance.  But OTOH,going 64-bit might remove the part-count problem anyway so I'd wait and see on that.

***************

And now I have a question.....  I seem to not understand the Claim Jumper because it always says "no processes"---IOW, it doesn't do anything.  So, does it have built-in drills or do I need to attach regular drills?  Do I have to do the whole core sample thing with the Geo Lab before the Claim Jumper will work?  Or what?

Also, I had a bug with the Gold Digger.  I saw on right-click menu for it the option "modify drill".  When I clicked on this, a box popped up that said "Drill Modifications" at the top but was otherwise blank, and this box would not go away  it had no button to close it and ESC just brought up the regular KSP menu, which didn't show up well because of the "Modify Drill" Box.  And as long as that box was up, the "Manage Operations" menu was invisible unless I dragged it through the "Modify Drills" box, when part of it would show in that box.  The only way I could get rid of this was to change scene to the space center.  Is that a known issue?

For the Alt P menu, I'm looking into adding a toolbar button to the stock toolbar. That should take care of it. Right now the key is hard-coded but that's easily changeable in a future release.

3-5km is out of physics range, and vessels won't receive update pings so they can run their converters, animations, etc. If the vessel is loaded, and it has opted in, then it will benefit from the resource distribution system. Much simpler to make a distribution system that way. :)

The Claim Jumper needs a bit of work, but it has a built-in drill. If you don't see "Start Strip Mining" on the context menu, then save and reload your game. That should bring it back.

And I'm not sure why you don't have a close button on the modify drill screen, sounds like there is a bug. Next time it happens, if you post your logs I might be able to take a look. :)

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OK, first some pics of how I'm building bases:....  I haven't perfected this yet but the general idea is pretty obvious.

01 Loadouts

I'm trying to fit full sets of stuff in the largest Buckboards but as you can see, not all combinations of stuff that needs to go together has room for the essential Gaslights that link the Sets together.  But the stuff in the upper central box is all optional so paring it down to make room for extra Gaslights isn't a problem.

02 Starter Set Emplaced

So here's what's in the lower center box shown above.   The small solar panel on the central Switchback is about equal to an RTG at Kerbin (and about nothing beyond Duna) so this needs power.

03 Solar Set Emplaced

The Solar Set all fits in 1 box and is insufficient to run everything you might have within Kerbin's SOI, but works better closer to the sun.  Still you'll need more batteries to last out the night so a set of them is pretty much necessary.  I didn't bother building such a thing.

04 ISRU Set

An ISRU set, but it lacks the Gaslight needed to connect it to the rest of the base.  That's why you need a box of spare parts.

05 Tankfarm Set

Tankfarm sets are easy---1 big box holds all 7 parts.  Configure the Chuckwagons to suit your needs.

06 Base In General

So here's a base with all these Sets hooked together via their Gaslights.  Each Set is on its own Saddle and this makes the whole thing pretty Kraken-proof.  And because it's all hooked together, you can transfer Kerbals between the Sets no problem although actually they'd have to walk between the airlocks.  Also, you walk and drive low-clearance rovers between the sets without intersecting a pipe, and can drive tall rovers through the gaps because the pipes don't collide with it.

All kinds of Sets are possible although you can't have more than 3 Old Faithfuls in the same box with a Saddle and a Switchback (with or without a Gaslight).  You can have a Solar Flare and a Sunburn Lab but no Gaslight.  However, by then you probably don't need the Geo Lab so can make it the Sunburn and put a Gaslight in the box with the Solar Flare.

Here's what it looks like at night:

07 Night View

---------------------------------

Now, I did have some problems while doing this....

08 Problems

Upper Left:  Double Pipes between Starter Set and Solar Set.  The 2nd pipe appeared every time I switched focus between any 2 things in the area (the base, the rover with the parts on it, or the Engineer building the base).  It also appeared every time I quit and restarted the game, or went tot he Space Center and back.  Unlinking the extra pipe with a Kerbal was only a temporary fix.  Any time I did one of the above things, the 2nd pipe came back.  I suspect this is a KAS/KIS problem and is due to the specific alignment of the parts concerned.

Upper Right:  No Processes in Claim Jumper:  This never changed.  No matter switching focus, going back to the Space Center, or quitting and restarted the game, the Claim Jumper never had an option to do anything.

Bottom:  Stock Toolbar Disappeared:  This happened when I linked the Solar Set to the Starter Set, and remained the case no matter what I did while playing the game.  However, quitting and restarting the game fixed this problem.

Logs:  Here's a log after I quit and restarted the game, so only has the double pipes and the lack of Claim Jumper functionality.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/p0rl51si64njoms/Pathfinder%2099%20Glitches.zip?dl=0

 

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OK, I've been playing with this a bit more.  Having lots of fun :)

I tried solving the double pipe issue noted above by detaching, slightly rotating via SHF-A, and reattaching the Gaslights.  This didn't solve the problem.  While the pipe remained single while I was looking at it, going to the Space Center and back made it go back to being double.  Same thing with another pipe I installed on an expansion to the base.  So far, I'm only getting double pipes if the pipes are running SW-NE.  Pipes running NW-SE are behaving themselves.  It doesn't seem to matter which ports on the Gaslight I connect, either.

Also, I went back and RTFM'd on the Claim Jumper and turns out it's not supposed to have any processes, just a start/stop button on the right-click menu.  D'oh!  HOWEVER, then I ran into another problem.  My base currently has 2 Claim Jumpers.  One of them is behaving itself but the other one sometimes has and sometimes doesn't have the start/stop button in its right-click menu.  See pic:

09 Claim Jumper Differences

The only way I can make the one of the right have a start/stop button is to reconfigure it to something else, then back to being a stripminer.  This sometimes happens while it's running, too.  For instance, I start it with the button but then can't turn it off again because the button is gone later.  Strange.

Also, I notice that the Whatney Rainmaker's recipe on the wiki says it only needs Monopropellant.  However, in the game, it uses both mono and oxidizer.  Which one is correct?  Seems to me, it might be nice to have a recipe that burns LFO to make water, and another recipe that makes it out of mono alone.

And I'm having a bit of trouble repairing the Pathfinder rover wheels.  I tried reparing a Grizzly and while a new tire appeared on it, the wheel hub and the tire remained quite egg-shaped so the vehicle did not roll very well :D

 

 

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I've found a minor issue with building bases off of Switchbacks.  All the radially attached pods have their hatches right up next to their attach point, so that when you have several pods attached to a Switchback, their hatches are immediately adjacent to each other.  It seems that this proximity makes the actual "Crew Hatch" areas of adjacent pods overlap, resulting in some confusion on which pod the Kerbal will end up in or come out of.

Here's an example:

10 Hatch Confusion

In #1, the Kerbal is hanging on the hatch to the left, intending to enter the left pod.  However, hitting B to board puts the Kerbal in the pod to the right, as shown #2.  So in #3, you transfer the Kerbal into the left pod as intended.  But then, if you hit the EVA button on his portrait, he comes back out the right pod's hatch.

It might be worth considering moving the hatches back along the tubes closer to the main body of the pod.  I don't really know how "Crew Hatch" things work, but they apparently occupy volumes of space around the actual door graphic, that the Kerbal interacts with.  The Pathfinder hatches seem to have fairly large volumes (compared to the "crew hatches of other parts) so that Kerbals can board directly from the ground without having to grab the ladder first.  This is quite handy and I'd prefer not to do without that if possible.  But I think this size increases the odds of the "crew hatch" volumes overlapping, leading to the confusion shown here.

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I used Pathfinder to make a base at the UFO crash site near Kerbin's north pole:

I had a few difficulties with the Grizzly wheels going egg-shaped.  This happened if a flat tire was being repaired while the Buffalo cab ladders were extended, and when the wheels were intact but I undocked 2 trucks that had previously been connected with Trailer Hitches.

Here's the mission report

Here;s the KSP.log file

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