[Min KSP: 1.12.2] Pathfinder - Space Camping & Geoscience

[Ooglak Kerman]

The Castillo buildings are presenting quite the puzzle.  The Castillo assembles - without the required resources -  and the engineer can enter and and configure.
The Factory and Depot assemble but you can't enter or do anything but admire it.  It's probably something simple I'm missing.

[Ooglak Kerman]

@Angel-125 Huh...  Frustration!  I've tried everything I can think of and my only conclusion is that other than the Castillo - the other Castillo parts just don't work.  I have the requisite resources (konkrete and equipment) available and shared and they assemble but will not become operational.  The Castillo appears fully functional.  A kerbal can enter the observatory, but nothing can be done with it.  For all the others, the crew hatches don't work.

Can you offer any hints/advice on getting these things operational?  Or were the Castillo things sort of an unfinished work?

[capi3101]

6 hours ago, Ooglak Kerman said:

Can you offer any hints/advice on getting these things operational?  Or were the Castillo things sort of an unfinished work?

My Castillos are working fine. Just a quick "is it plugged in" sort of question - have you actually set up the converters in your various Castillos to do things? And where have you positioned your engineers?

[Ooglak Kerman]

2 hours ago, capi3101 said:

My Castillos are working fine. Just a quick "is it plugged in" sort of question - have you actually set up the converters in your various Castillos to do things? And where have you positioned your engineers?

The Castillo works just fine.  The Castillo Factory and Castillo Depot inflate, but you cannot get any crew members into them to perform any setup/configuration.  Castillo Observatory inflates and I can get crew into it (eng and sci) but there are no options to do any configuration of any parts.  Vexing!

What version are you using?  I'm on 1.39.1

Edited January 20, 2023 by Ooglak Kerman

[Angelo Kerman]

9 hours ago, Ooglak Kerman said:

@Angel-125 Huh...  Frustration!  I've tried everything I can think of and my only conclusion is that other than the Castillo - the other Castillo parts just don't work.  I have the requisite resources (konkrete and equipment) available and shared and they assemble but will not become operational.  The Castillo appears fully functional.  A kerbal can enter the observatory, but nothing can be done with it.  For all the others, the crew hatches don't work.

Can you offer any hints/advice on getting these things operational?  Or were the Castillo things sort of an unfinished work?

They used to work. Are you using KIS to build them? My 3D program license expired so I can’t really go back in and fix them. I would need to learn Blender but I am on a modding break until February. Have you tried using extraplanetary launchpad to build a base?

[capi3101]

40 minutes ago, Ooglak Kerman said:

The Castillo works just fine.  The Castillo Factory and Castillo Depot inflate, but you cannot get any crew members into them to perform any setup/configuration.  Castillo Observatory inflates and I can get crew into it (eng and sci) but there are no options to do any configuration of any parts.  Vexing!

What version are you using?  I'm on 1.39.1

Same version here. Are you using the Castillo modules alongside any of the non-Castillo parts (Pondarosa/Hacienda/Chuckwagon/Casa/Doc), perchance?

[Ooglak Kerman]

Ok.  Progress!  It looks like the piece I was missing was that at least the Depot and Factory and likely the drilling rig need to be attached to a thing with command capability - like the Castillo.  I had been thinking that they could stand alone.

I had thought that many parts lacked attachment nodes but it turns out that the eng needs to be standing very close.  And getting them to attach.... huhhh... stock eva construction is.... challenging.

It's always the simple things!

Edited January 20, 2023 by Ooglak Kerman

[Angelo Kerman]

10 minutes ago, Ooglak Kerman said:

Ok.  Progress!  It looks like the piece I was missing was that at least the Depot and Factory and likely the drilling rig need to be attached to a thing with command capability - like the Castillo.  I had been thinking that they could stand alone.

It's always the simple things!

I never considered having all the large buildings capable of stand-alone operations. You could probably make a MM patch to add that-

@PART[wbiCastilloFactory,wbiCastilloObservatory,wbiDrillingRig,wbiGroundStation]:NEEDS[Pathfinder]
{
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleCommand
		minimumCrew = 0
	}
}

 

[Ooglak Kerman]

1 hour ago, Angel-125 said:

I never considered having all the large buildings capable of stand-alone operations. You could probably make a MM patch to add that-

@PART[wbiCastilloFactory,wbiCastilloObservatory,wbiDrillingRig,wbiGroundStation]:NEEDS[Pathfinder]
{
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleCommand
		minimumCrew = 0
	}
}

 

I never connected the dots on that with the smaller inflatable (FlimzyTek) buildings.  I just hooked them up and took it for granted.

The GroundStation will operate on its own it seems though.

It might make sense to patch in ModuleCommand to some of the parts though.  Finding space on some worlds to hook them together might be a bit fiddly.  The resource distribution bit would make that doable though also more fiddly.  Thanks for tossing together that patch.

[Ooglak Kerman]

Is it in the cfg for the Depot that enables the crew ports to allow entry?  The ports have attach nodes, but you can't enter directly.  There is no associated IVA with the Depot.  Would this by why it's a 1 way in and no way out thing?

None of this is a particular biggie though the 1 way in, no way out might be problematic unless you are using it for a penal facility.

[Ooglak Kerman]

Well... it's all set up - and sliding on level ground.  Because the drill is moving ever so slowly, it's giving a "no ground contact" error.  Sometimes the game physics just make me a bit crazy.

It looks like the key is to keep the footprint of the base as small as possible.  If you spread it out, it'll start to wander.

Edited January 21, 2023 by Ooglak Kerman

[capi3101]

1 hour ago, Ooglak Kerman said:

Well... it's all set up - and sliding on level ground.  Because the drill is moving ever so slowly, it's giving a "no ground contact" error.  Sometimes the game physics just make me a bit crazy.

It looks like the key is to keep the footprint of the base as small as possible.  If you spread it out, it'll start to wander.

Set your airbrake and set it early. The Castillo can do that, but for my money, I put a Saddle on top of a Pondarosa once it's deployed and set it that way.

(You put a Saddle on the ground and it will inevitably explode on you...).

[Angelo Kerman]

8 hours ago, Ooglak Kerman said:

Is it in the cfg for the Depot that enables the crew ports to allow entry?  The ports have attach nodes, but you can't enter directly.  There is no associated IVA with the Depot.  Would this by why it's a 1 way in and no way out thing?

None of this is a particular biggie though the 1 way in, no way out might be problematic unless you are using it for a penal facility.

I don't recall if the Depot has crew capacity or not..

[Angelo Kerman]

Yeah, the Depot in that Castillio Depot doesn't have crew capacity.

[Ooglak Kerman]

11 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

I don't recall if the Depot has crew capacity or not..

Depot has a capacity of 32, but there is no IVA and once in the Depot, there is no way to get them out - even with ModuleCommand patched in.  It's no biggie though.  Just important to know.  It does make it vital to attach the Depot to something that has crew capacity and ModuleCommand though.  As currently built, it cannot stand alone.   Word is that Jeb will be using it to expand into the Jebs line of Correctional Facilities.

14 hours ago, capi3101 said:

Set your airbrake and set it early. The Castillo can do that, but for my money, I put a Saddle on top of a Pondarosa once it's deployed and set it that way.

(You put a Saddle on the ground and it will inevitably explode on you...).

I was curious about the airbrake and what it did.  I'll give that a try.  The drilling rig really seems to make stuff want to slide around.  I'd like to use it, but the hacienda works fine in that role also.

I've not had a Saddle explode yet.  If you put it on top, does the Pondarosa then think it's set up to the proper height for other stuff to connect?

[Angelo Kerman]

11 minutes ago, Ooglak Kerman said:

Depot has a capacity of 32, but there is no IVA and once in the Depot, there is no way to get them out - even with ModuleCommand patched in.  It's no biggie though.  Just important to know.  It does make it vital to attach the Depot to something that has crew capacity and ModuleCommand though.  As currently built, it cannot stand alone.   Word is that Jeb will be using it to expand into the Jebs line of Correctional Facilities.

I was curious about the airbrake and what it did.  I'll give that a try.  The drilling rig really seems to make stuff want to slide around.  I'd like to use it, but the hacienda works fine in that role also.

I've not had a Saddle explode yet.  If you put it on top, does the Pondarosa then think it's set up to the proper height for other stuff to connect?

Ok, that's an error. It looks like I copied the Castillio's WBIPackingBox over to the storage depot. You should change inflatedCrewCapacity to 0 instead of 32.

[Ooglak Kerman]

1 minute ago, Angel-125 said:

Ok, that's an error. It looks like I copied the Castillio's WBIPackingBox over to the storage depot. You should change inflatedCrewCapacity to 0 instead of 32.

Ah.  That makes sense now.  Thanks for having a look.
Gotta say - I LOVE the Observatory and the Ground Station.  A lot of work surely went into those.  Having them move around sure lends a sense of something actually happening.
Just did a little testing.  The drilling rig appears to be central to the sliding problem.  When I scene switch over to the facility with the drilling rig, it is always shut down and the whole facility is sitting still.  When I fire up the drill - it starts it's wandering thing.  KSP physics and likely related to the part count in physics range.

What is the Airpark setting on the Saddle?  I'm loathe to use it if it bolts the saddle to the ground since even with WorldStabilizer and Parking Brake, everything still gives the physics hop when you switch to it.

[Angelo Kerman]

44 minutes ago, Ooglak Kerman said:

Ah.  That makes sense now.  Thanks for having a look.
Gotta say - I LOVE the Observatory and the Ground Station.  A lot of work surely went into those.  Having them move around sure lends a sense of something actually happening.
Just did a little testing.  The drilling rig appears to be central to the sliding problem.  When I scene switch over to the facility with the drilling rig, it is always shut down and the whole facility is sitting still.  When I fire up the drill - it starts it's wandering thing.  KSP physics and likely related to the part count in physics range.

What is the Airpark setting on the Saddle?  I'm loathe to use it if it bolts the saddle to the ground since even with WorldStabilizer and Parking Brake, everything still gives the physics hop when you switch to it.

That was a version of a mod called Airpark that was discontinued. If you have the Parking Brake mod, use that instead. In the meantime I'm working up a quick bug fix for the Castillo Depot, and creating a patch that replaces Pathfinder's resource distributor with Wild Blue Core's fuel pump (which is newer and easier to use).

[capi3101]

1 hour ago, Ooglak Kerman said:

I've not had a Saddle explode yet.  If you put it on top, does the Pondarosa then think it's set up to the proper height for other stuff to connect?

That's been my experience - here's the early stages of a base I built back in October. The Saddle is on top of a MicroISRU, itself connected to a Hacienda attached to the main Pondarosa:


The same base three days later -
 

(Yes, this base is on Kerbin. I pull shenanigans with the Pipeline settings so I can refuel orbital space stations without requiring launches to do so.) 

Edited January 21, 2023 by capi3101

[Angelo Kerman]

41 minutes ago, capi3101 said:

Yes, this base is on Kerbin. I pull shenanigans with the Pipeline settings so I can refuel orbital space stations without requiring launches to do so.) 

Coming soon: I have an experimental part in Wild Blue Core to handle this very situation. It's currently in testing.

[Ooglak Kerman]

The pathfinder resource distribution seems to be aware of the FLP-1 pump that is already out there - though getting it to work is a bit fiddly.

I assume the Pathfinder parts will continue to have resource distribution just built in?  And the FLP-1 will be just for sticking onto non-Pathfinder stuff?  Looking forward to seeing how the orbital refueling bit works.  That's seriously gonna simplify a lot of things.

2 hours ago, capi3101 said:

That's been my experience - here's the early stages of a base I built back in October. The Saddle is on top of a MicroISRU, itself connected to a Hacienda attached to the main Pondarosa:
 

It looks like you are using uninflated Haciendas stuck onto the Ponderosas to "jack them up" so they're level with the other parts.  So.. what then is the need for the Saddle?
That big ol base doesn't up and wander off?  I wonder what would happen if you put a drilling rig onto it.  Starting the drilling rig seems to get anything I've built to begin moving.

[Ooglak Kerman]

Whelllp...  Now I have Kerbals Relocated Among Planets.  I need a K.R.A.P. flag but my abilities of artistie is..... unworthy.

[capi3101]

57 minutes ago, Ooglak Kerman said:

It looks like you are using uninflated Haciendas stuck onto the Ponderosas to "jack them up" so they're level with the other parts.  So.. what then is the need for the Saddle?
That big ol base doesn't up and wander off?  I wonder what would happen if you put a drilling rig onto it.  Starting the drilling rig seems to get anything I've built to begin moving.

I have the Haciendas there in that original picture because I wanted to add them to the base but didn't have enough Equipment on hand to inflate them at time of screenie (the thing about 'living off the land' - sometimes it takes days both IRL and in-game before you get to the final result). You can't really tell from a stillshot, but the Saddle is keeping the whole thing from moving around too much.

I have a mostly identical base on Mün that has about a dozen drill rigs attached to it (I've been using this tent-and-dome design since 1.4), and the Saddle works there too although I think I also have the parking brake set on the Castillo for good measure as well.

45 minutes ago, Ooglak Kerman said:

Whelllp...  Now I have Kerbals Relocated Among Planets.  I need a K.R.A.P. flag but my abilities of artistie is..... unworthy.

Blew up on you, eh? That sucks; it's happened to me often enough, so I can sympathize. How far along was your base (and where was it located)?

Edited January 21, 2023 by capi3101

[Ooglak Kerman]

2 hours ago, capi3101 said:

I have the Haciendas there in that original picture because I wanted to add them to the base but didn't have enough Equipment on hand to inflate them at time of screenie (the thing about 'living off the land' - sometimes it takes days both IRL and in-game before you get to the final result). You can't really tell from a stillshot, but the Saddle is keeping the whole thing from moving around too much.

I have a mostly identical base on Mün that has about a dozen drill rigs attached to it (I've been using this tent-and-dome design since 1.4), and the Saddle works there too although I think I also have the parking brake set on the Castillo for good measure as well.

Blew up on you, eh? That sucks; it's happened to me often enough, so I can sympathize. How far along was your base (and where was it located)?

No.  It didn't blow up on me and even if it did, it would be easy to revert.  I'm using Shadow Copy to keep things backed up. I was mentioning the story line that I've got going.

Would you be good enough to get me a close-up of how you have the saddle set up?  The wandering bases effect is just being a super bummer for me.

@Angel-125 Are the contracts compiled into the dll?  Or can I access it otherwise?  There are 3 completed contracts (2 Wild Blue Industries  and 1 <Classified> that are lacking info in the "agent" field and really raising heck in the log with exceptions.  I've tried editing the persistent.sfs but it just reverts back.

[Angelo Kerman]

3 hours ago, Ooglak Kerman said:

No.  It didn't blow up on me and even if it did, it would be easy to revert.  I'm using Shadow Copy to keep things backed up. I was mentioning the story line that I've got going.

Would you be good enough to get me a close-up of how you have the saddle set up?  The wandering bases effect is just being a super bummer for me.

@Angel-125 Are the contracts compiled into the dll?  Or can I access it otherwise?  There are 3 completed contracts (2 Wild Blue Industries  and 1 <Classified> that are lacking info in the "agent" field and really raising heck in the log with exceptions.  I've tried editing the persistent.sfs but it just reverts back.

Yeah they are compiled into the dll. You can try dismissing them via the debug menu (F12).