[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.14.0 "металл" 30/Sep/2024)

[dave1904]

1 hour ago, Pappystein said:

Mass is scaled in BDB by fuel capacity (it is a direct result of the fuel capacity.)   The mass you see listed is for the NON-TANK (structural rings between the tanks etc)  Those are a very SMALL part of the tank mass.

depends on what you are building.  LDC covers SOO MANY DIFFERENT ROCKETS!

My favorite is using the Herkales parts, I run XLR129s or RL20s in a 4x arrangement  and 2 or 4 UA-1207s depending on payload.   All engines ignite on the ground in my builds.    I have also used the RMM CH4 STME engine as seen:
 

That particular rocket built many of my International Space stations (since I don't like how robot arm works in KSP either via expansion or mods)

Second stage is big tank with LR87-LH2 VAC engines (2 or 4)

While this is not a "Historical" Build, most of the 1980s and 1970s and 1960s LDCs were all Aerozine 50 / NTO,  There was documentation (shop talk, not an actual design) for a proposed LCH4 variant right as Lockheed took over Martin Marietta.

 

Ive tryed building it like this Titan 3L2 and it doesnt have the trust once the srbs are gone. Even with ground lit version

 Im going to either use the E-1 and switch to RP-1 or use LH2 second Stage. Probably both.  All I know is that stage 1 and 2 being aerozine50 do not work haha. I want to stick to parts from that era. 

[Pappystein]

23 hours ago, dave1904 said:

Ive tryed building it like this Titan 3L2 and it doesnt have the trust once the srbs are gone. Even with ground lit version

 Im going to either use the E-1 and switch to RP-1 or use LH2 second Stage. Probably both.  All I know is that stage 1 and 2 being aerozine50 do not work haha. I want to stick to parts from that era. 

First, if we are going to use a websource best to use one that is somewhat accurate even if you have to use Wayback machine:
https://web.archive.org/web/20220321062228/https://www.spacelaunchreport.com/Titan-3L24.jpg

Sourced From:

https://web.archive.org/web/20180405050445/http://www.spacelaunchreport.com/library.html

Mark Wade (Astronautix) was a one man Wiki for most of Astronautix and has quite a few errors across much of the work.   Great place to find a name for something...  Not so much with actual history/operation of hypothetical units.

Conversely,

While Ed Kyle (owner of now defunct Space Launch Reports) is also a one man crew, he uses forms like NASASpaceFlight to verify data before publishing it, and more to the point, ACTUALLY posts(ed) corrections

you are using the TWIN BELL LR87s for AZ/50 then correct?  Not the Single Bell engines?

LR87-AJ-9/11 SHOULD lift a 3L2 with a moderate payload.  Also just like regular Titan, if you are flying with full tanks you are "fooling yourself"  reduce tank capacity to 90% all tanks for AZ50/NTO

from my notes, the LDC tanks should be at 87.5% full   All but one tank at 90% full and the larger of the upper stage tanks at 80% full should get you the valid numbers roughly

 

Edited Thursday at 09:41 PM by Pappystein

[dave1904]

18 hours ago, Pappystein said:

you are using the TWIN BELL LR87s for AZ/50 then correct?  Not the Single Bell engines?

I'm using 4 single engines. I do not use the bluedog hypergolic patch but skyhawks. Full tanks however. Ive not looked into it further since my post and will have to look into reducing the fuel loads. 

[Pappystein]

6 hours ago, dave1904 said:

I'm using 4 single engines. I do not use the bluedog hypergolic patch but skyhawks. Full tanks however. Ive not looked into it further since my post and will have to look into reducing the fuel loads. 

The Skyhawk patch is loosely based on the Patch that JSO and I developed for BDB, it should use the same math.   But yes all LDC Titans flew were to fly with standard LR87 twin bell affairs.   So you get the 4 port base, and you have to place then rotate the engines 45 degrees and they fit in the pie-shaped cutouts.   4 single LR87s don't have the power to lift just the lower LDC tank, full, with no payload as I recall.

 

[Zorg]

10 hours ago, Pappystein said:

The Skyhawk patch is loosely based on the Patch that JSO and I developed for BDB, it should use the same math.   But yes all LDC Titans flew were to fly with standard LR87 twin bell affairs.   So you get the 4 port base, and you have to place then rotate the engines 45 degrees and they fit in the pie-shaped cutouts.   4 single LR87s don't have the power to lift just the lower LDC tank, full, with no payload as I recall.

 

hwaaa? Somethings gone very wrong if thats the case. Im pretty sure the sea level singles are supposed to have the same stats as half of a regular twin version of each generation.

Edit: maybe I missed something you are talking about using 4 doubles on the core?

edit2: just reading up the thread, its worth considering that the BDB LDC is a rough representation of a number of different large diameter concepts with differing core diameters. Some of builds  may need to be defueled a bit as the in game core is likely too large. I never did test all the LDC builds for performance listed on Spacelaunchreport.

Edited 10 hours ago by Zorg