Astronomers may have found giant alien 'megastructures' orbiting a star in the Milky Way

[FungusForge]

I hear megastructures and I immediately think of the Homeworld backgrounds that depict the insanely enormous remnants of Progenitor structures...

Whatever it is, it's a shame that none of us will see it up close. Because whether it be an incomplete/collapsed Dyson, or some huge planet or something, its gotta be interesting.

[Aethon]

The white star is apparent mag 11.... This means that anyone with a computerized telescope could look at this thing and measure the proper motion difference, etc. to see if it's a companion or not.

Magnitude +11.7. Visible through a 6" telescope.

[_Augustus_]

http://i1.wp.com/www.universetoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/Kepler-star-locator-wide.jpg?zoom=1.5&resize=565%2C360

http://i1.wp.com/www.universetoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/10/KIC-8462852-locator-SkyMap_edited-2.jpg

Magnitude +11.7. Visible through a 6" telescope.

Yeah, that means that the red dwarf (assuming it's not like Proxima-sized) should be visible with an 8" telescope...

Right??

[Aethon]

I'm not a gynecologist, but I'll take a look at it.

[PB666]

Hmm. I'm not sure.

The first evidence they haven't keep expanding is that they aren't installed on solar system. Nor in any other milky way star, or another galaxy.

A second evidence of that is the "Great Silence" and total absence of probes, or other alive, past or present signs of that civ' in our immediate surroundings.

Thay have started that Dyson swarm, and stopped it. It's not anodyne.

This is a "what if" discusion about what it implies for humanity if this is a partial Dyson. I don't think it's that irresponsible. It's intended to help the humanity to make the best next move by undestanding his surroundings.

If you want to build a dyson the best place to start is at the equator and the extend from the equator outward.

[baggers]

You can't really conclude they have stopped. All we know is that they were constructing something, x lightyear distance time ago. What they've been doing in the meantime we don't know. Whether it's their first or last space megastructure, we wouldn't know.

Giving the galactic timeline compared to civ' or species timeline, it's very unlikely the first and only artificial megastructure spotted is actually in construction.

[Nibb31]

You can't really conclude they have stopped. All we know is that they were constructing something, x lightyear distance time ago.

You can't really conclude anything. All we know is that some scientists have detected a bizarre phenomenon around a star and that this entire thread is jumping the shark of some idiot click-bait journalist.

[KerikBalm]

As far as I know space megastructures ARE technically possible, much more so than FTL, so I don't think we should let FTL enter the explanations.

Who said anything about FTL?

Interstellar != Faster Than Light

The galaxy is 100,000 light years across.

Our star is over 4,000,000,000 years old, the galaxy is of course even older than that.

4,000,000,000

/

100,000

Our star is 40,000 times older than the time it would take to traverse the galaxy at the speed of light.

This thing is less than 1,500 ly away.

Our star is ~2,500,000 times older than the time it would take something from there to reach here at the speed of light.

If they can construct such gigantic things, we should also assume they can send stuff out at at least 0.1C

If they are that close... they should have spread all around us a long long long time ago

[Steel]

If they can construct such gigantic things, we should also assume they can send stuff out at at least 0.1C

There is literally no reason we should assume this. They could just as easily be life that exists on such enormously vast timescales that the huge distances are of no consequence to them. Let's just take a step back here, everyone is just making assumptions based on assumptions, and that on top of the fact that everyone seems to have jumped to the conclusions that an unusual pattern in light fluctuations means that there are aliens building giant structures in space.

[78stonewobble]

Giving the galactic timeline compared to civ' or species timeline, it's very unlikely the first and only artificial megastructure spotted is actually in construction.

True enough, the ... under construction would be as much as a leap. What I meant is .... a potential structure at x years ago, that we are seing now and then us being alive.

We don't understand enough of the factors to gauge, how to construct a galactic timeline, that can be used to make a meaningfull predictions or estimations of galactic civilisation and spread of life and/or intelligent life. Eg. conditions might not have been conducive to life before now.

- - - Updated - - -

You can't really conclude anything. All we know is that some scientists have detected a bizarre phenomenon around a star and that this entire thread is jumping the shark of some idiot click-bait journalist.

We can theorize... Like people do on everything from colonies on venus, over solar roadways and to skylon ever flying.

- - - Updated - - -

Who said anything about FTL?

Interstellar != Faster Than Light

The galaxy is 100,000 light years across.

Our star is over 4,000,000,000 years old, the galaxy is of course even older than that.

4,000,000,000

/

100,000

Our star is 40,000 times older than the time it would take to traverse the galaxy at the speed of light.

This thing is less than 1,500 ly away.

Our star is ~2,500,000 times older than the time it would take something from there to reach here at the speed of light.

If they can construct such gigantic things, we should also assume they can send stuff out at at least 0.1C

If they are that close... they should have spread all around us a long long long time ago

Yes, but that is making the jump from potential other life existing in one place circa 16xx years ago, to life existing over a large portion of the galaxy over a much longer timespan and that this life will spread to as far as they can, with no consideration to ressource cost and time spent. Which ... is a jump...

[Wjolcz]

You can't really conclude anything. All we know is that some scientists have detected a bizarre phenomenon around a star and that this entire thread is jumping the shark of some idiot click-bait journalist.

This.

I want to know more about it though.

[Aethon]

This.

I want to know more about it though.

Well here's a highly relevant paper on what methods can be/are used to detect alien mega structures, and things to look for.

THE G SEARCH FOR EXTRATERRESTRIAL CIVILIZATIONS WITH LARGE ENERGY SUPPLIES. ˆIV. THE SIGNATURES AND INFORMATION CONTENT OF TRANSITING MEGASTRUCTURESJason T. Wright1, Kimberly M. S. Cartier, Ming Zhao1, Daniel Jontof-Hutter, Eric B. Ford1Department of Astronomy & Astrophysics, and andCenter for Exoplanets and Habitable Worlds, 525 Davey Lab, The Pennsylvania State University, University Park, PA, 16802Submitted to ApJABSTRACTArnold (2005), Forgan (2013), and Korpela et al. (2015) noted that planet-sized artificial structures which might be used for stellar energy collection, propulsion, or as beacons  could be discovered with Kepler as they transit their host star. We present a general discussion of transiting megastructures, and enumerate nine potential ways their anomalous silhouettes, orbits, and transmission properties would distinguish them from exoplanets. We also enumerate the natural sources of such signatures.Several anomalous objects, such as KIC 12557548 and CoRoT-29, have variability in depth consistent with Arnold’s prediction, and/or an asymmetric shape consistent with Forgan’s model. Sincewell motivated physical models have so far provided natural explanations for these signals, the ETI hypothesis is not warranted for these objects, but they still serve as useful examples of how nonstandard transit signatures might be identified and interpreted in a SETI context. Boyajian et al.2015 recently announced KIC 8462852, an object with a bizarre light curve consistent with a “swarmâ€Âof megastructures. We suggest this target is an outstanding SETI target. We develop the normalized information content statistic M to quantify the information content in a signal embedded in a discrete series of bounded measurements, such as variable transit depths, and show that it can be used to distinguish among constant sources, interstellar beacons, and naturally stochastic or artificial, information-rich signals. We apply this formalism to KIC 12557548 and aspecific form of beacon suggested by Arnold to illustrate its utility.

http://www2.astro.psu.edu/~jtwright/Dyson/GHAT4.pdf

Edited October 16, 2015 by Aethon

[magnemoe]

I've assumed this is a remain of a destroyed civ': it's unlikely we have spotted a "in construction" Dyson sphere because galactic timeline. The remain is likely here from 1-2 bilions years. It's dead in the Great Silence and have hit the Great Filter a bit before becoming full type 2 civ. And we are approximately type 1.

Now the question is how do an civilization with mega structures in its solar system go extinct? They are very likely to self supported many places and could lose the home planet without going extinct.

An major war is the only way I can think of outside of star dies, but why did they not have the destructive war before they colonized the solar system, far more likely than an war so destructive it knocks out all the habitats.

An dyson swarm is also an far more plausible saver and easier thing than an real dyson sphere and match that we see here if they clump to better for better comunication

- - - Updated - - -

How do you know it isn't behind us? Say, that the probability of a species developing to the point where it's capable of forming a technological civilization is extremely low, and very few planets have agriculture, much less Dyson Spheres.

This is my take on it, it took an long time before we got smart animals, (birds are pretty smart but has size restrictions and non flying birds are not very smart.)

It might be an rare thing, also once you get intelligence and have success you kind of close the doors for other species as you are likely to hunt or out compete them.

Now you need more than just intelligence, you need domesticated animals and plants, you also need to be able to work in large groups to get above the village stage.

You also need to be smart enough, humans might be lucky as it was so many species of humans who competed against each other as the stupider ones also worked well as primitive hunter gatherers.

- - - Updated - - -

Or, you know, it could be a dyson swarm segment, as instead of building an insane and impractical sphere, they just built enough power generation to meet their needs for the foreseeable future, and are quite happy without an impractical boondoggle of a superstructure.

My take on it again, an dyson swarm is something who is plausible to build, an dyson sphere run into lots of problems without having much benefits.

- - - Updated - - -

Hmm. I'm not sure.

The first evidence they haven't keep expanding is that they aren't installed on solar system. Nor in any other milky way star, or another galaxy.

A second evidence of that is the "Great Silence" and total absence of probes, or other alive, past or present signs of that civ' in our immediate surroundings.

Thay have started that Dyson swarm, and stopped it. It's not anodyne.

This is a "what if" discusion about what it implies for humanity if this is a partial Dyson. I don't think it's that irresponsible. It's intended to help the humanity to make the best next move by undestanding his surroundings.

How do we know? first of laser pumped solar sails will not make an dent in their energy budget. For them star travel will be like us going to Mars.

We have not gone to Mars because of cost and an lack of need, we have sent lots of probes, we would not see an dead probe in the solar system and 1000 lightyear is far, probably outside their interest area.

[problemecium]

That mention of the Oort Cloud has me wondering what the Sun would look like from there.

- Would the Oort Cloud be obscuring its light irregularly like a huge mysterious megastructure? In that case, perhaps this star has one too. Why should we be special?

- Would the Oort Cloud completely block the Sun, giving any extraterrestrials (from that star or elsewhere) no reason to bother sending probes here where there doesn't seem to be anything worth probing?

[Aethon]

- Would the Oort Cloud....

From the G Hat paper I linked above.

"To explain the events as transits, one must apparently invoke a large number of individual transiting objects. The durations of the events and the lack of repetition require the objects to be on long-period orbits. A depth of 22% for the deepest event implies a size of around half the stellar radius (or larger if, like a ring system, the occulter is not completely opaque). The asymmetries imply that either star or the occulter deviate significantly from spherical symmetry"

"The light curves of KIC 8462 clearly show multiple reversals (seethe events between (BJD-2454833)= 1500 and 1508 inFigure 2), indicating some material is undergoing egress prior to other material experiencing ingress during a single“eventâ€Â.This implies either occulters with star-sized gaps, multiple, overlapping transit events, or complex non-Keplerian motion.The large number of events requires there to be a large number of these occulters  at least 8 just from the events shown in Figure 2, plus an uncertain number from lower-level events (but at least another 8)."

From the original paper "Where's The Flux?"

"the several-day duration of the events for KIC 8462852 suggests that the clumps are either close-in and large compared to the star, or far-away from the star and small. However, clumps that are too distant move too slowly across the stellar disk to explain the observed duration regardless of their size; e.g., a 3-day duration dip cannot arise from a clump beyond ∼ 15 AU."

"The middle solid line (for tdip = 3) and a depth of Ä = 20% therefore decreases the outer limit on the clump locations mentioned above to closer to 8 AU."

"The high rate of change in the KIC 8462852 light curve translates to a lower limit on the transverse velocity of the orbiting material of about 9 km s−1,which corresponds to an upper limit of 16 AU for material on circular orbits."

"The lack of evidence for periodicity in the dips in the observed light-curve excludes orbital periods shorter than ∼ 1500 days, which thus constrains the location to lie beyond about 3 AU. This constraint could be broken if the clumps disperse within a single orbit."

"the depth, duration and lack of periodicity of the dimming events constrains their location to a region roughly corresponding to that occupied by the giant planets in the Solar System. Clump sizes would thus be comparable to, but larger than, the star"

Edited October 17, 2015 by Aethon

[Nothalogh]

Now the question is how do an civilization with mega structures in its solar system go extinct? They are very likely to self supported many places and could lose the home planet without going extinct.

An major war is the only way I can think of outside of star dies, but why did they not have the destructive war before they colonized the solar system, far more likely than an war so destructive it knocks out all the habitats.

An dyson swarm is also an far more plausible saver and easier thing than an real dyson sphere and match that we see here if they clump to better for better comunication

- - - Updated - - -

This is my take on it, it took an long time before we got smart animals, (birds are pretty smart but has size restrictions and non flying birds are not very smart.)

It might be an rare thing, also once you get intelligence and have success you kind of close the doors for other species as you are likely to hunt or out compete them.

Now you need more than just intelligence, you need domesticated animals and plants, you also need to be able to work in large groups to get above the village stage.

You also need to be smart enough, humans might be lucky as it was so many species of humans who competed against each other as the stupider ones also worked well as primitive hunter gatherers.

- - - Updated - - -

My take on it again, an dyson swarm is something who is plausible to build, an dyson sphere run into lots of problems without having much benefits.

- - - Updated - - -

How do we know? first of laser pumped solar sails will not make an dent in their energy budget. For them star travel will be like us going to Mars.

We have not gone to Mars because of cost and an lack of need, we have sent lots of probes, we would not see an dead probe in the solar system and 1000 lightyear is far, probably outside their interest area.

This is all starting to sound like The Veil of Madness

[baggers]

This is all starting to sound like The Veil of Madness

Thanks: I don't know about that "Humanity f*ck Yeah" Thing. Very funny ^^

[Nothalogh]

Thanks: I don't know about that "Humanity f*ck Yeah" Thing. Very funny ^^

There's some amazing stuff that comes from those threads, along with some low grade fanfic tier stuff

[KerikBalm]

There is literally no reason we should assume this. They could just as easily be life that exists on such enormously vast timescales that the huge distances are of no consequence to them.

Its a matter of energy expenditure, and Isps required to move that amount of mass in any reasonable fashion.

If they have that much energy, for a similar amount of energy, they could power massive light sails/laser propulsion systems (indeed, such a structure would be meant to harness more of the energy output of the sun). If they move that much mass, they already have high Isp drives, and wouldn't even need light sails in the first place.

If they exist on vast timescales and the huge distances aren't a problem, then its even more likely they'd spread.

Any alien that could construct such a large structure should also have the capability to easily go interstellar.

That thing is so close, that if it was aliens capable of interstellar travel, they should have surrounded us by now.

It appears we aren't surrounded by an alien civilization.

There are plausible natural explanations.

Considering those two together... its not aliens, its a system that was disturbed by a passing star/massive object.

everyone is just making assumptions based on assumptions, and that on top of the fact that everyone seems to have jumped to the conclusions that an unusual pattern in light fluctuations means that there are aliens building giant structures in space.

I have specifically challenged that assumption.

Then I attempted proof by contradiction.

If P, then Q

If not Q, then not P.

Q is false.

Therefore P is false

Assume that the statement is true.

Derive a conclusion from it.

Show that the conclusion doesn't match observations

Conclude the statement is actually false.

Its not aliens people!

[Bill Phil]

This is all starting to sound like The Veil of Madness

I think I actually know what you're talking about.

[kerbiloid]

It's just a usual cube-shaped star.

While it rotates, we can see it either from faces, or from edges, or from vertices.

So, its brightness varies.

It's an extraterrestrial Minecraft star.

[andrew123]

It's just a usual cube-shaped star.

While it rotates, we can see it either from faces, or from edges, or from vertices.

So, its brightness varies.

It's an extraterrestrial Minecraft star.

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

[baggers]

It's just a usual cube-shaped star.

While it rotates, we can see it either from faces, or from edges, or from vertices.

So, its brightness varies.

It's an extraterrestrial Minecraft star.

An easter egg?

[kerbiloid]

An easter egg?

Yes, with bonus level!

[1of6Billion]

OK, we all seem to agree it's a bit far fetched that it's artificial structures, but we all like to ponder on the possibility. Right?

Why are we assuming it's no longer "under construction"? A Dyson sphere/cloud is not something even the most advanced civilisation could build over night. Has the star been observed for a significant amount of time?