Frozen_Heart Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 [quote name='Astrofox']So, the Spacecraft Exchange will stay, it's just that companies will be removed. So, could I start a personal company in the new forum? You know, just me as the head of everything (CEO, engineer, tester, etc.).[/QUOTE] Companies aren't really going away. Just the rp bit. Call them craft showcase's. Employees are craft contributors. Partnerships are "other recommended builders" They will just be in the spacecraft exchange section instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMagic Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Um... I think the addon release and dev sub-forums have by far the most traffic, with view counts regularly reaching into the millions. As for the UI and layout issues, I think that most people will probably get used to whatever system is being used pretty quickly, a little extra scrolling here there isn't going to affect that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_name Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 [quote name='KasperVld']Rocket Builders is a place that actually breaks our community rules constantly, in particular the 'thou shallt not roleplay' rule. You're still welcome to offer the craft you make, or even take requests in the Spacecraft Exchange forum though, the only thing that will change is the 'company' part of it, with the employee/director/ceo roles and inter-company drama that comes with it.[/QUOTE] I don't understand, what's wrong with the role playing? I don't visit that part of the forums often so I'm out of the loop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racescort666 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 [quote name='DMagic']Um... I think the addon release and dev sub-forums have by far the most traffic, with view counts regularly reaching into the millions. As for the UI and layout issues, I think that most people will probably get used to whatever system is being used pretty quickly, a little extra scrolling here there isn't going to affect that much.[/QUOTE] As former long time user of Kinja, nothing can be that bad. Also, yeah, totally agree that add on gets a ton of traffic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueCanary Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Although I think the situation has been somewhat blown out of proportion considering the relative low traffic of the Rocket Builders forum and the fact that the Spacecraft Exchange still remains as an alternative, I still don't really understand why Rocket Builders has to be deleted? Are there any recent examples (other than ones related to this forum migration) of the kind of minor role play in Rocket Builders getting out of hand and requiring moderator intervention? If not, it seems like this is an incident of rules being enforced for the sake of enforcing the rules, and that the huge loss of information that may have been beneficial to lots of players looking for craft and inspiration outweighs the positives of possibly avoiding future confrontation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quasarrgames Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 As long as this solves the "non-advanced search is completely turd" thing :) it'll all be awesome. Hope you guys can get the sleep you need Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hevak Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) Yes it is getting blow out of proportion. It's being done so, and there is really no other way to put this, because many are becoming petulant over something that is quite small in the grand scheme of the world. the fact that people are blowing this so out of proportion is a good validation of the devs decision. Being upset is one thing but the level that it's being taken in this thread is another. The he devs have explained a couple times why it is going away. First it was against the rules to role play for awhile now. And role play can be a huge nightmare for forums when you already have arguments that pop on them. Now add someone saying oh I was just acting like a complete donkey to them because i was just playing a role. I didn't break the rules yada yada. It makes moderation a tougher thing in all cases, and they said everyone may not have seen it but they regularly had to mod that section. And as evidence here and in the rb forum people are taking it a little to serious and a little to the extreme, causing several posts to moderated here as well. i find it funny that many of the save the rb people are claiming it's wrong what squad are doing, and making snide remarks in the process. Yet the real thing they need to realize is they were in the wrong first as there was no rp allowed, yet they still did and continuously broke the rules and cause moderation issues. Some are even demanding that they be allowed to have a place to rp no matter what, or else it will spill into other threads. So yeah make some thinly veiled threats to keep breaking the rules no matter what, that certainly helps your cause doesn't? You can still make and sharecraft, even cooperatively. It has been stated many times now. There just won't be a rb thread, but you can use the exchange thread. Just don't roleplay it like a real company in the sense of acting out parts it's not hard to understand is it? you were graciously given some time to backup all your work by the devs, in fact they could have easily just erased the whole thread if they wanted. There is nothing that says they have to let you backup or move your work over, sans rp of course, to the exchange. But they let you. So maybe count that as a blessing in a difficult situation. they have since said that rb will be a hidden archive after the change to allow people to link to it and work on changing things over after the change as well. As as for the company part, you can still brand your stuff with a name if you like. It's perfectly ok, for example look at Roverdudes stuff for USI, or Taraniselu for TAC even TriggerAU for trigger tech I think it is? And several others that brand all their work. The difference you ask? Well when you go into their thread they talk and act like a regular person, they don't roleplay a ceo or a company at all. They don't play or act out bits ever. There is a big difference and keeps things nicer. now being upset is generally fine, as is voicing your opinion and pushing for change. But honestly I hope one day many of you realize that your actions in this thread alone have probably done more to validate this decision by the devs. The amount of asinine, insolent posts, and plain lack of respect shown toward squad and the mods trying to get change kind of amazes me. You may be unhappy and I do understand it to some extent, but it was no need to act the way many have, and continue to do so here, towards the mods or anyone really. i would be upset if some of my contributions I have made to a couple threads went away too,I invested time in it and it's nice to have the history yes. But My life would continue as normal, if a persons life won't because of that, then they really need look into some help as there are issues there. But things end, this game or the whole world could end tomorrow. Squad is a small company and things can happen much easier and quicker to a small company, good or bad. Squad does not have to provide us with a forum. They don't have to allow us to create, use, or share mods or crafts at all. But they do and they have established rules and are working to enforce them for what I see are perfectly valid reasons. and really the main point to really think about now is that if you all had just followed the rules and avoided the role playing altogether you probably wouldn't be in this mess. And if you'd like to continue making and sharing craft which I'm sure many people including me to a small extent, would like, just put aside the rp aspect and things will be fine. but honestly most of you have gotten so rediculous in your responses to this, that like I said you have more than anything done so much to validate the devs/mods decision. Edited November 23, 2015 by Hevak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrandedonEarth Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 At least that happens to be the weekend that I'm moving. I'll be too busy to notice the forums are offline Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lego8_bit Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 you do bring up a very good point there hevak Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pwlnw Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Oh God, why ? Everyone is obliged to write that this is a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softweir Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 [quote name='SpaceplaneAddict']Wazzat?[/QUOTE] Modern wordprocessors are what-you-see-is-what-you-get; that is, you don't enter weird and sometimes arbitrary codes, you just choose the effect you want and see it instantly. So we won't need BBCode [noparse][b]bold[/b], [i]italic[/i][/noparse] and so on, nor html <I>italic</I>, <B>bold</B> and so on. I suggest you google WYSIWYG for lots of pages describing the concept. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cantab Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 [quote name='softweir']Modern wordprocessors are what-you-see-is-what-you-get; that is, you don't enter weird and sometimes arbitrary codes, you just choose the effect you want and see it instantly. So we won't need BBCode [noparse][b]bold[/b], [i]italic[/i][/noparse] and so on, nor html <I>italic</I>, <B>bold</B> and so on. I suggest you google WYSIWYG for lots of pages describing the concept.[/QUOTE]It is of course not necessarily a good thing. I've regularly been driven up the creek using MS Word, and it's usually because it allows someone else to make a document that "looks right" but is structurally awful and thus a nightmare to edit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoenix Areospace Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I have no resources to do that though. You think we can save the RB section by getting someone to make it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softweir Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 [quote name='cantab']It is of course not necessarily a good thing..[/QUOTE] Oh yes indeed! *Very* simple WYSIWYG systems are OK because there is only one way to do something, but so many WPs have so many ways to achieve the same appearance that it's nuts. You may have heard that a lot of early e-books were broken because the authors and publishers produced structurally-nonsensical files during production of dead-forest editions; and the publishers then used an Export function [i]without proofreading![/i] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Po0ka Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 I have a concern about the look of the new forum, it might sound like nothing but would it be possible to have "square" avatars? I wouldn't like to sacrifice my avatar's details just to have a supposed "modern" look, if it's a circle, it would use the same space as a square, just with lost details. But as it's still in development i doubt the apparence is final, i just wanted to express my opinion. (If it was already brought up by someone then i'm sorry, i didn't want to read [I]all[/I] these pages) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCanadianVendingMachine Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 [quote name='Astrofox']Suddenly, I'm reminded of what happened with Kerbal Spaceport...[/QUOTE] A piece of buggy, terrible software gets official support removed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nsgallup Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Existing threads aren't getting deleted are they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Svm420 Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 [quote name='Hevak']Yes it is getting blow out of proportion. It's being done so, and there is really no other way to put this, because many are becoming petulant over something that is quite small in the grand scheme of the world. the fact that people are blowing this so out of proportion is a good validation of the devs decision. Being upset is one thing but the level that it's being taken in this thread is another. The he devs have explained a couple times why it is going away. First it was against the rules to role play for awhile now. And role play can be a huge nightmare for forums when you already have arguments that pop on them. Now add someone saying oh I was just acting like a complete donkey to them because i was just playing a role. I didn't break the rules yada yada. It makes moderation a tougher thing in all cases, and they said everyone may not have seen it but they regularly had to mod that section. And as evidence here and in the rb forum people are taking it a little to serious and a little to the extreme, causing several posts to moderated here as well. i find it funny that many of the save the rb people are claiming it's wrong what squad are doing, and making snide remarks in the process. Yet the real thing they need to realize is they were in the wrong first as there was no rp allowed, yet they still did and continuously broke the rules and cause moderation issues. Some are even demanding that they be allowed to have a place to rp no matter what, or else it will spill into other threads. So yeah make some thinly veiled threats to keep breaking the rules no matter what, that certainly helps your cause doesn't? You can still make and sharecraft, even cooperatively. It has been stated many times now. There just won't be a rb thread, but you can use the exchange thread. Just don't roleplay it like a real company in the sense of acting out parts it's not hard to understand is it? you were graciously given some time to backup all your work by the devs, in fact they could have easily just erased the whole thread if they wanted. There is nothing that says they have to let you backup or move your work over, sans rp of course, to the exchange. But they let you. So maybe count that as a blessing in a difficult situation. they have since said that rb will be a hidden archive after the change to allow people to link to it and work on changing things over after the change as well. As as for the company part, you can still brand your stuff with a name if you like. It's perfectly ok, for example look at Roverdudes stuff for USI, or Taraniselu for TAC even TriggerAU for trigger tech I think it is? And several others that brand all their work. The difference you ask? Well when you go into their thread they talk and act like a regular person, they don't roleplay a ceo or a company at all. They don't play or act out bits ever. There is a big difference and keeps things nicer. now being upset is generally fine, as is voicing your opinion and pushing for change. But honestly I hope one day many of you realize that your actions in this thread alone have probably done more to validate this decision by the devs. The amount of asinine, insolent posts, and plain lack of respect shown toward squad and the mods trying to get change kind of amazes me. You may be unhappy and I do understand it to some extent, but it was no need to act the way many have, and continue to do so here, towards the mods or anyone really. i would be upset if some of my contributions I have made to a couple threads went away too,I invested time in it and it's nice to have the history yes. But My life would continue as normal, if a persons life won't because of that, then they really need look into some help as there are issues there. But things end, this game or the whole world could end tomorrow. Squad is a small company and things can happen much easier and quicker to a small company, good or bad. Squad does not have to provide us with a forum. They don't have to allow us to create, use, or share mods or crafts at all. But they do and they have established rules and are working to enforce them for what I see are perfectly valid reasons. and really the main point to really think about now is that if you all had just followed the rules and avoided the role playing altogether you probably wouldn't be in this mess. And if you'd like to continue making and sharing craft which I'm sure many people including me to a small extent, would like, just put aside the rp aspect and things will be fine. but honestly most of you have gotten so rediculous in your responses to this, that like I said you have more than anything done so much to validate the devs/mods decision.[/QUOTE] You said everything that ever needed to be said about this 10/10 /thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superfluous J Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 [quote name='TheCanadianVendingMachine']A piece of buggy, terrible software gets official support removed?[/QUOTE] :D [quote name='nsgallup']Existing threads aren't getting deleted are they?[/QUOTE] Existing threads in the Rocket Builders subforum will not be transferred. This will effectively delete them though it sounds like, if you ask, they can still access the content in them for a time after the transfer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueCanary Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) [quote name='5thHorseman'] Existing threads in the Rocket Builders subforum will not be transferred. This will effectively delete them though it sounds like, if you ask, they can still access the content in them for a time after the transfer.[/QUOTE] The thing is, there'll be lots of threads by people who've left the forums, and those will not be backed up. Since when I was first learning KSP I remember getting lots of help from rocket builders and spacecraft exchange threads that were 3 years old and started by users who hadn't posted in years, this means a lot of useful information for both beginners and non beginners will be lost. I really wish they'd keep it as read only or something, there's a lot of stuff that's going to be missed. Edited November 24, 2015 by BlueCanary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KSK Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) [quote name='Hevak']Yes it is getting blow out of proportion. It's being done so, and there is really no other way to put this, because many are becoming petulant over something that is quite small in the grand scheme of the world. the fact that people are blowing this so out of proportion is a good validation of the devs decision. Being upset is one thing but the level that it's being taken in this thread is another. The he devs have explained a couple times why it is going away. First it was against the rules to role play for awhile now. And role play can be a huge nightmare for forums when you already have arguments that pop on them. Now add someone saying oh I was just acting like a complete donkey to them because i was just playing a role. I didn't break the rules yada yada. It makes moderation a tougher thing in all cases, and they said everyone may not have seen it but they regularly had to mod that section. And as evidence here and in the rb forum people are taking it a little to serious and a little to the extreme, causing several posts to moderated here as well. i find it funny that many of the save the rb people are claiming it's wrong what squad are doing, and making snide remarks in the process. Yet the real thing they need to realize is they were in the wrong first as there was no rp allowed, yet they still did and continuously broke the rules and cause moderation issues. Some are even demanding that they be allowed to have a place to rp no matter what, or else it will spill into other threads. So yeah make some thinly veiled threats to keep breaking the rules no matter what, that certainly helps your cause doesn't? You can still make and sharecraft, even cooperatively. It has been stated many times now. There just won't be a rb thread, but you can use the exchange thread. Just don't roleplay it like a real company in the sense of acting out parts it's not hard to understand is it? you were graciously given some time to backup all your work by the devs, in fact they could have easily just erased the whole thread if they wanted. There is nothing that says they have to let you backup or move your work over, sans rp of course, to the exchange. But they let you. So maybe count that as a blessing in a difficult situation. they have since said that rb will be a hidden archive after the change to allow people to link to it and work on changing things over after the change as well. As as for the company part, you can still brand your stuff with a name if you like. It's perfectly ok, for example look at Roverdudes stuff for USI, or Taraniselu for TAC even TriggerAU for trigger tech I think it is? And several others that brand all their work. The difference you ask? Well when you go into their thread they talk and act like a regular person, they don't roleplay a ceo or a company at all. They don't play or act out bits ever. There is a big difference and keeps things nicer. now being upset is generally fine, as is voicing your opinion and pushing for change. But honestly I hope one day many of you realize that your actions in this thread alone have probably done more to validate this decision by the devs. The amount of asinine, insolent posts, and plain lack of respect shown toward squad and the mods trying to get change kind of amazes me. You may be unhappy and I do understand it to some extent, but it was no need to act the way many have, and continue to do so here, towards the mods or anyone really. i would be upset if some of my contributions I have made to a couple threads went away too,I invested time in it and it's nice to have the history yes. But My life would continue as normal, if a persons life won't because of that, then they really need look into some help as there are issues there. But things end, this game or the whole world could end tomorrow. Squad is a small company and things can happen much easier and quicker to a small company, good or bad. Squad does not have to provide us with a forum. They don't have to allow us to create, use, or share mods or crafts at all. But they do and they have established rules and are working to enforce them for what I see are perfectly valid reasons. and really the main point to really think about now is that if you all had just followed the rules and avoided the role playing altogether you probably wouldn't be in this mess. And if you'd like to continue making and sharing craft which I'm sure many people including me to a small extent, would like, just put aside the rp aspect and things will be fine. but honestly most of you have gotten so rediculous in your responses to this, that like I said you have more than anything done so much to validate the devs/mods decision.[/QUOTE] I'm sorry but 'follow the rules and everything will be OK', without any further justification, is rarely a good argument. Rules are not immutable; if enough people can break them without causing harm to themselves or others, then perhaps its time to review and maybe change them to something more manageable. Blindly following The Rules just because they're The Rules is just as bad as ignoring The Rules just because they're The Rules. Your circular argument of an unpopular decision being justified because it was unpopular doesn't hold much merit either. Finally, judging from what I've read on this thread, there was a wide spectrum of posts on the RB forum, ranging from 'clearly within the rules' through 'harmlessly skirting the edges of the rules', to 'clearly breaking the rules to the detriment of others.' Punishing everyone on that spectrum, for the sake of the people on one end of it, is unfair. Regardless of anyone's personal feelings about the RB forum, this announcement was a poor piece of change management. Squad have a forum (for better or for worse) where players metaphorically take to the streets in defense of the Round8. A forum where there are long discussions about fragmenting vs clamshell fairings. I do wonder how they imagined those players might react to having an entire section of the forums deleted. The decision to close the RB thread, as originally presented, looked arbitrary. I hear a lot on this thread about how the role-playing got out of hand in the past. Fine - then the correct decision would have been to close down RB (with a warning) at that time, not some indeterminate time later. Also, whether or not the decision was objectively justified, presenting it as 'this is how its going to be - deal with it' was not a good way of getting people to agree with Squad's position, especially when those people had relatively little time to 'deal with it'. One arbitrary looking decision also, understandably, prompts concerns about the possibility of other arbitrary decisions happening later on. I accept that everything looks obvious in hindsight but I'm also willing to bet that if Squad had simply chosen to leave RB up as a read-only section of the new forums, then this thread would have been an awful lot shorter. It would have been clear that they were respecting (or at least tolerating) existing content, whilst still having a place for new, similar content shorn of any elements that had been found to cause problems in the past. Edited November 24, 2015 by KSK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superfluous J Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 (edited) [quote name='BlueCanary']The thing is, there'll be lots of threads by people who've left the forums, and those will not be backed up. Since when I was first learning KSP I remember getting lots of help from rocket builders and spacecraft exchange threads that were 3 years old and started by users who hadn't posted in years, this means a lot of useful information for both beginners and non beginners will be lost. I really wish they'd keep it as read only or something, there's a lot of stuff that's going to be missed.[/QUOTE] Spacecraft Exchange will still exist and will be busier now that it's the only forum to post ships. Most ships designed before 1.0 are useless now, and most designed even a month ago will need tweaking. While a bit sad, it's really not that big a deal, functionally. It's more akin to losing photos in a fire. You can't get them back, but you don't need them to continue moving on and it was better that you saved the dog instead. It could be argued that this will HELP new people. I still answer questions where the person thinks that cranking over 45 degrees at 10km is the way to launch because that's what it said in a post somewhere. Edited November 24, 2015 by 5thHorseman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexzorg Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 i hope the new update (IPS) will be good :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eddiew Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 [quote name='5thHorseman']It could be argued that this will HELP new people. I still answer questions where the person thinks that cranking over 45 degrees at 10km is the way to launch because that's what it said in a post somewhere.[/QUOTE] Tis true that the long history of KSP changes have led to a lot of what is now [I]mis[/I]information on forums, youtube, reddit, etc. I think most players don't expect there to have been so much alteration to flight characteristics that it would matter as much as it does... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frybert Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 Kraken help me if I get lost in ANOTHER forum derp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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