Are interplanetary rovers possible in 1.05?

[Captain Vlad]

[quote name='Pthigrivi']Haha this just makes me want to take a rover to pol and try to make orbit.[/QUOTE]

ROFL.

I made one that could 'jump' once. The actual intent was to make it's descent onto the Mun self-powered with monoprop engines. I never flew it to the Mun. I mostly just drove over to the VAB and put it up on the roof.

[Geschosskopf]

[quote name='ExtremeSquared']The new aero makes pushing a big stupid looking contraption on the top of a rocket nearly impossible. But fairings still don't work. Are rovers are stuck in limbo until physics for fairings is implemented?[/QUOTE]

Well, in general, any amount of drag can be countered by sufficient thrust and control authority, but there are fairings, you know.

Here's a 3.5m fairing on a 3.5m rocket. Inside the fairing is a stack of 4 identical ore prosepecting rovers. Got this all the way to Vall no problem.

[url=https://flic.kr/p/BjHMGJ][img]https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5769/23184337142_954931ffc8_b.jpg[/img][/url]

Then there's this one. This is a Space-Y 5m rocket with a Space-Y 5m fairing. Inside is a fuel rover with a body made of 2.5m tanks suppored by 4 of those stupid huge stock wheels. The immense liftiness of the huge fairing made this rocket difficult to fly to orbit, but it managed (could probably have used bigger tail fins but lots of RCS was just barely sufficient). But once in orbit, it got all the way to Duna no problem.

[url=https://flic.kr/p/B39M37][img]https://farm1.staticflickr.com/580/22996832270_cd647e5c4a_b.jpg[/img][/url]

Note that this rover wasn't heavy enough to really need a 5m lifter. I just used 5m parts to minimize the difference in diameters between the fairing and the lifter, which is a good thing for aero reasons. And even so, the fairing was still way bigger than the rocket so it wasn't fun to launch. But it worked.

So anyway, it's really no big deal sending even huge, wide, lumpy rovers to other planets. Sometimes it's a bit of a design challenge, but nothing you can't solve in the course of drinking 1 beer.

[ShadowZone]

I had some trouble getting this into orbit, but not due to aerodynamics but due to fairing bases being structurally super weak (i.e. struts galore) and the inability to strut payloads to the inside of the fairing. Had to construct a sort of skeleton inside the fairing that kept the 200t payload in place. Otherwise it would wobble through the fairing all the time.

[imgur]nD1Kq[/imgur]

Wanna see failed attempts and the one success? Watch this at about 4:25!
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWZjiuNC4Yg[/url]

[Pthigrivi]

[quote name='Captain Vlad']ROFL.

I made one that could 'jump' once. The actual intent was to make it's descent onto the Mun self-powered with monoprop engines. I never flew it to the Mun. I mostly just drove over to the VAB and put it up on the roof.[/QUOTE]

Im thinking like a big stupid bundle of sepratrons.

[Rune]

[quote name='EdFred'][URL]http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/139219-Fairing-CoL-Offset-%28also-staged%29[/URL]

I experience the same issue:

[spoiler="whaat?"]
See where that center of lift is. Makes it impossible to launch. Even if you go ridiculously slow. I went back to 1.0.4 because of it.


[url]http://webpages.charter.net/edfred/kerbal/2015-11-12_00015.jpg[/url]
[/spoiler][/QUOTE]

I only see one drag and body lift vectors in there. They are bugged in their position, yes (they should be in the fairing's CoL)... but the fairing is doing just what it is meant to, shielding it's contents inside it. What's killing you is that you just put one giant, low-density aerodynamic surface on top of your rocket... and didn't even make the rocket structurally sound to keep it pointing the right way.

As to packing rovers for transit... well, I pack whole bases that incidentally have a rover in them. That enough to prove it's doable?

[img]http://i.imgur.com/aJj8AZI.png[/img]
[img]http://i.imgur.com/3Z5OfcT.png[/img]
And once unpackaged... (ignore the modded module on top of the rover, not part of the bundle I showed you earlier, I pulled screenies from several versions here)
[img]http://i.imgur.com/Czic7BH.png[/img]


Rune. Use those gizmos, they are there for a reason! Edited November 25, 2015 by Rune

[1greywind]

Forget fairings. Build rocket around your rover, launch straight up with low TWR until 20 km and then go to orbit like in old pre 1.0 times.

[More Boosters]

I have one on the way to Dres right now; the propulsion bus had enough Delta-V to take it on a Dres intercept course from a failed Moho intercept course.:confused:

[ExtremeSquared]

[quote name='1greywind']Forget fairings. Build rocket around your rover, launch straight up with low TWR until 20 km and then go to orbit like in old pre 1.0 times.[/QUOTE]

I'm going with this for now. I suspect fairings are win builds only for now.

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Vlad and I have the same lack of respect towards rocket science though. I still blame physics bugs.

[BenCushwa]

[quote name='EdFred'][URL]http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/threads/139219-Fairing-CoL-Offset-%28also-staged%29[/URL]

I experience the same issue:

[spoiler="whaat?"]
See where that center of lift is. Makes it impossible to launch. Even if you go ridiculously slow. I went back to 1.0.4 because of it.


[URL]http://webpages.charter.net/edfred/kerbal/2015-11-12_00015.jpg[/URL]
[/spoiler][/QUOTE]
Needs more struts. ;^)

I know that this is often a silly response to any kind of issue, but in this case I think it's true. You have a large, relatively high-drag payload on top of a 1.25m rocket. Once that joint starts flexing the heading of your engines relative to your pod will get you stuck in an SAS feedback loop and rip you to shreds. The only way I could see posibly getting that rocket into orbit as-is would be to launch it straight up to keep thrust and drag forces in-line until after you pass 30k (i.e. the bulk of the atmosphere) then start circularizing from there, but that's really inefficient.

Another alternative would be to replace your 1.25m core with a 2.5m core, but that would be a more extensive, and expensive, redesign than simply adding struts.

[Majorjim!]

[quote name='Dispatcher']Well, not with stock wheels and chassis parts. They just are not large enough to give you the traction you need when driving from one world to another. :blush:[/QUOTE]

Lol I thought this was a joke thread too. That question is just so...

Anywhoo, yes you can take a rover to another planet. Edited November 25, 2015 by Majorjim

[ExtremeSquared]

Used a lifter with Jool system deltaV to get a rover to Minmus. Four key points to the operation:
1: v<250m/s until 25km
2: vertical ascent until 15km
3: tremendous control authority -- fully unlocked gimbals and 11 reaction wheels.
4: struts can be attached to the payload within the fairing.

Neglecting any of these resulted in failure.

4b: Doing this in career mode is frustratingly wasteful.

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To add insult to injury the terrible looking fairing became embedded in the craft in LKO for an orbit. Fairings...
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/bZuyK11.png[/IMG]

[EdFred]

I had struts, and there was a command pod and landing craft inside the fairing. It wasn't just empty space in there. It just barely enclosed the two. Funny thing is, take the fairing off (and increase the drag), and it works just fine.

[Wolfos31]

This is one of the reasons I wish KSP had stock hinges and other basic mechanical pieces. The Apollo program folded the rover due to space constraints (and it being a bit of an afterthought) we should be able to do the same. That said, KSP rovers will almost never reflect a realistic design because our rovers have different considerations than real life rovers need to worry about. In real life rovers go slowly because speed isn't a priority, but our rovers go up to 10 - 20 m/s on the level which is an astounding 45 mph! That's why players tend to make wide, low chassis to prevent tipping while making turns or going over hills.

The problem with this comes in the fact that we have very limited options when it comes to what we can deploy once a craft has left the VAB. Rovers need to be sturdy and strong so without mods your only options are struts and a wide, over-engineered chassis. So you go to launch this and it's a pancake. I usually don't bother with fairings when my payload is that bulky and irregularly shaped. I just take the DV hit and use a larger rocket.

[Majorjim!]

[quote name='EdFred']I had struts, and there was a command pod and landing craft inside the fairing. It wasn't just empty space in there. It just barely enclosed the two. Funny thing is, take the fairing off (and increase the drag), and it works just fine.[/QUOTE]

Fairings are, among many other things, bugged.

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[quote name='Wolfos31']This is one of the reasons I wish KSP had stock hinges and other basic mechanical pieces. The Apollo program folded the rover due to space constraints (and it being a bit of an afterthought) we should be able to do the same. [/QUOTE]

Dude, I have made a small folding rover using stock parts. I will post it soon.

[Chaos_Klaus]

I think Stock Bug Fix modules has the fix for the fairing bug.

Also, are you on the newest build of KSP? There was a tiny update that fixed some bugs, added steam controller support but did not increase the version number. Still is 1.0.5.

[Raptor9]

[quote name='Majorjim']Dude, I have made a small folding rover using stock parts. I will post it soon.[/QUOTE]

Or just kick it out the side of the lander and have Bill catch it so it doesn't tip over. :D That was my technique for kicking my rover out of my Mun lander.

The one thing that makes rover wheels challenging still is the fact that in the SPH/VAB the suspension isn't fully-extended since physics aren't applied. A rover may fit inside a fairing in the SPH/VAB, but when you expose it to physics, the wheel suspension extends and can clip through the fairing walls, making jettison...problematic. Edited November 25, 2015 by Raptor9

[322997am]

Some rovers are better when they are launched via ssto and dropped via lander/chutes. I tried the fairing it the rover kept exploding on launch

[KerikBalm]

hmmm, I launch all my fairings facing backwards, and haven't noticed any problems in 1.05... havent tried a rover yet, but it shouldn't be a problem...

[url]http://i.imgur.com/wrNkvOF.png[/url]

[url]http://i.imgur.com/FOfPjuO.png[/url]

The fairings may be bugged, but its not impossible to use them... but I can see how most people wouldn't want them upside down
-if I'm experiencing the bug too, I can only conclude that it increases my stability... although I did notice that I seemed to have to strut the payload more than I used too, or the payload would break off (ie the connection of the fairing base to the SSTO would fail, leaving the encased payload to fall into the water) when I pitched up after takeoff... maybe its due to extra torque due to the drag being applied farther back?

[LordFerret]

I've put this rover up on Mun & Minmus, and currently have a similar version of it on the way to Eeloo. No fairing, launched as seen below. It's a long slow ride up, keeping velocity just under 300m/s. Once it's 30+km up however, throttle up and out. It's unmanned, crew follows it.

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/CM2QzPr.png[/IMG]

[theend3r]

If I can do this [i]in FAR[/i]:
[imgur]TdZ6E[/imgur]
Then getting to space with a bit more sensible design shouldn't be too hard.