Sigma Dimensions

[m4ti140]

14 hours ago, Sigma88 said:

@m4ti140 Oh man this is incredible

good job on those parameters!

I got distracted took me a while to get back to you...

 

the bug is my fault, it'll be fixed in the next SD release, in the meantime you can use this fix.cfg (put it anywhere in GameData, but remember to delete it when you will update to the next SD)

I would also suggest you to change the daylenghtmultiplier, 1 seems a little too low. try square root of the Resize

I purposefully kept it this low, because I'm not planning on moving the Mun (the Earth also used to spin stupidly fast like this). I'm trying to make the Kerbol system physically accurate while keeping it "kerbal". In the end I plan to give every planet unique, new parameters that would make it physically possible while keeping the stock feel and, to an extend, payload fractions. This is why I reduced surface gravity on Kerbin and increased the height of the atmosphere to justify the surface pressure (which I had to reduce anyway, because for 1 bar surface pressure I would have to make it something like 250-300 km high to make it physically accurate). The current density of Kerbin is 4500 kg/m^3, roughly 2/3 between Earth and Mars (I might raise it eventually). I'm aiming at making Kerbin an expy of Noahian Mars, or rather what would Mars look like today if it didn't loose atmosphere and produced inteligent life forms. I want the Kerbin to be an alien planet, not a scaled down Earth. If someone is interested in math behind those parameters I may post them here.

I'm gonna try the fix and report back.

EDIT: I also have a question: Does your mod change the orbital periods of planets when the mass of the parent object changes due to rescale, according to Kepler's Third Law? I want to make Kerbol physically accurate but at the same time keep the orbital period of the Kerbin AND keep it in the Goldilocks zone.

Edited May 28, 2016 by m4ti140

[Sigma88]

59 minutes ago, m4ti140 said:

I purposefully kept it this low, because I'm not planning on moving the Mun (the Earth also used to spin stupidly fast like this). I'm trying to make the Kerbol system physically accurate while keeping it "kerbal". In the end I plan to give every planet unique, new parameters that would make it physically possible while keeping the stock feel and, to an extend, payload fractions. This is why I reduced surface gravity on Kerbin and increased the height of the atmosphere to justify the surface pressure (which I had to reduce anyway, because for 1 bar surface pressure I would have to make it something like 250-300 km high to make it physically accurate). The current density of Kerbin is 4500 kg/m^3, roughly 2/3 between Earth and Mars (I might raise it eventually). I'm aiming at making Kerbin an expy of Noahian Mars, or rather what would Mars look like today if it didn't loose atmosphere and produced inteligent life forms. I want the Kerbin to be an alien planet, not a scaled down Earth. If someone is interested in math behind those parameters I may post them here.

I'm gonna try the fix and report back.

EDIT: I also have a question: Does your mod change the orbital periods of planets when the mass of the parent object changes due to rescale, according to Kepler's Third Law? I want to make Kerbol physically accurate but at the same time keep the orbital period of the Kerbin AND keep it in the Goldilocks zone.

Orbital period is calculated automatically using the patent's mass.

So if you change the mass of the sun you will get different orbital periods.

So if you want to fix kerbin's orbital period you have to do so by defining the sun's mass

(Or geeASL or gravParameter)

 

EDIT: also

in the next release the syntax for "Planet Specific Changes" will be modified, so you might want to be careful when upgrading

syntax will be much simpler, it would be the same as the "SigmaDimensions" settings, but inside each Body node

 

EDIT #2 :

regarding the math, I would definitely be interested in the process behind those choices.

I designed SD on purpose to allow rescale mods to focus on those decisions and make the rescaled system how they want, rather than wasting time to actually changing the numbers of each PQS mod, which is boring.

If you want to post it here I am completely fine with it, but I think the topic is interesting enough to get it's own thread. that will be a very good start of a "development" thread for the mod in case you plan to release it in the future. And I would definitely be interested in reading it.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Sigma88

[m4ti140]

3 hours ago, Sigma88 said:

Orbital period is calculated automatically using the patent's mass.

So if you change the mass of the sun you will get different orbital periods.

So if you want to fix kerbin's orbital period you have to do so by defining the sun's mass

(Or geeASL or gravParameter)

 

EDIT: also

in the next release the syntax for "Planet Specific Changes" will be modified, so you might want to be careful when upgrading

syntax will be much simpler, it would be the same as the "SigmaDimensions" settings, but inside each Body node

 

EDIT #2 :

regarding the math, I would definitely be interested in the process behind those choices.

I designed SD on purpose to allow rescale mods to focus on those decisions and make the rescaled system how they want, rather than wasting time to actually changing the numbers of each PQS mod, which is boring.

If you want to post it here I am completely fine with it, but I think the topic is interesting enough to get it's own thread. that will be a very good start of a "development" thread for the mod in case you plan to release it in the future. And I would definitely be interested in reading it.

Thanks for info. The fix worked.

It is also nice to hear about the planned improvement of the syntax. I might wait for the next release then.

Regarding the parameter choices: I played around with gravity equations and came up with these two:

r = v₁/2 * sqrt(3/(G*π*ρ)) - planet radius as a function of its density and orbital velocity. Since with 6h rotation period the boost from rotation is quite significant, I used stock escape velocity as the new orbital velocity (3431 m/s)

g_ASL= v₁²/r - gravity at see level for that radius

Having those I could easily obtain the resize and geeASLmultiplier parameters. As for the atmosphere, I assumed a reasonable (as in: one that will not result in ridiculous aircraft and atmosphere of Evian anoyance level but also reasonable from physical point of view, as a smaller planet would still lose more of its atmosphere by the time it developed intelligent lifeforms) atmoasl parameter and than got the atmosphere height:

atmosphere height = p_ASL*105km/geeASLmultiplier - where p_ASL is see level pressure, 105 km is the atmosphere cutoff in RSS (which gives reasonable pressure curve for 1 bar see level pressure with 9.807 m/s² gravitational acceleration) and that divided by geeASLmultiplier which is the ratio between our planet's gravity and 1g.

This gives a physically possible pressure curve accounting for the reduced weight of the air.

The landscape parameter is also obtained this way - I assumed that the mountains would grow higher by the ratio of gravitational accelerations, which seems to be the case for Earth and Mars.

 

[Sigma88]

New(er) Pre-Release Available for testing

This pre-release is basically the finished product that will be released as SigmaDimensions v0.6.0

since it's a pretty big update I will let this stay as a pre-release for a week, to give everybody the time to test it and report bugs

you can find it here:

SigmaDimensions v0.5.0.2

Planet specific changes have been overhauled, you will find a README file inside the Sigma/Dimensions folder with all the instructions

If there are no major bugs reported I will turn this into a proper release about a week from now.

 

 

A big "Thank You" to anyone who will take the time to try this

[selfish_meme]

I am having an issue with KerbalKonstructs in SSRSS, I can hand modify the configs for position but the altitude is determined by PQS and that seems several meters below the ground, I read through your conversation with Alphaash and it seemed that you had a solution. Is there anything that can be done to improve the PQS altitude accuracy on the Kerbin scale 'Earth'

[Sigma88]

1 hour ago, selfish_meme said:

I am having an issue with KerbalKonstructs in SSRSS, I can hand modify the configs for position but the altitude is determined by PQS and that seems several meters below the ground, I read through your conversation with Alphaash and it seemed that you had a solution. Is there anything that can be done to improve the PQS altitude accuracy on the Kerbin scale 'Earth'

well, are you using a KerbalKonstructs pack that is compatible with RSS?

if not, you need to manually adjust all buildings to the correct altitude in RSS (real size) and then when you load SSRSS it should work fine

[selfish_meme]

5 hours ago, Sigma88 said:

well, are you using a KerbalKonstructs pack that is compatible with RSS?

if not, you need to manually adjust all buildings to the correct altitude in RSS (real size) and then when you load SSRSS it should work fine

I see, I am using Real Launch Pads, which is RSS compatible but did not adjust the height is RSS first.

But the height is not preserved in the config file so how would it be preserved between saves or different games.

Edited May 29, 2016 by selfish_meme

[Sigma88]

14 minutes ago, selfish_meme said:

I see, I am using Real Launch Pads, which is RSS compatible but did not adjust the height is RSS first.

But the height is not preserved in the config file so how would it be preserved between saves or different games.

I'm not sure what you mean, mostly because I have a very limited experience with KK.

where is this Real Launch Pads mod you are using? I can't find it

[selfish_meme]

Sorry it was Real Launch Sites

Edited May 29, 2016 by selfish_meme

[Sigma88]

10 minutes ago, selfish_meme said:

Sorry it was Real Launch Sites

ok

if you look at the cfg contained it that mod you can see this:

STATIC
{
	name = Atlas2

	[...]STUFF[...]

	Instances
	{
		CelestialBody = Kerbin
		RadialPosition = 916570.2,3053557,-5518713
		Orientation = 0,1,0
		RadiusOffset = 69.5128
		RotationAngle = 55
		VisibilityRange = 25000
		Group = CC
		LaunchSiteDescription = No description available
		Category = Other
		FacilityType = None
	}
}

inside Instances you can see "RadiusOffset" which is the altitude where the building will be placed

that gets rescaled by SD in order to account for the changes made by (in your case SSRSS)

so as long as the altitude in that mod is working fine in RSS it should work fine in rescaled RSS as well

[selfish_meme]

15 minutes ago, Sigma88 said:

ok

if you look at the cfg contained it that mod you can see this:

STATIC
{
	name = Atlas2

	[...]STUFF[...]

	Instances
	{
		CelestialBody = Kerbin
		RadialPosition = 916570.2,3053557,-5518713
		Orientation = 0,1,0
		RadiusOffset = 69.5128
		RotationAngle = 55
		VisibilityRange = 25000
		Group = CC
		LaunchSiteDescription = No description available
		Category = Other
		FacilityType = None
	}
}

inside Instances you can see "RadiusOffset" which is the altitude where the building will be placed

that gets rescaled by SD in order to account for the changes made by (in your case SSRSS)

so as long as the altitude in that mod is working fine in RSS it should work fine in rescaled RSS as well

Excellent thanks for that I will check it out.

[selfish_meme]

4 hours ago, Sigma88 said:

ok

if you look at the cfg contained it that mod you can see this:

inside Instances you can see "RadiusOffset" which is the altitude where the building will be placed

that gets rescaled by SD in order to account for the changes made by (in your case SSRSS)

so as long as the altitude in that mod is working fine in RSS it should work fine in rescaled RSS as well

I played around with this a bit and found an easier way, if you open up the KerbalKonstructs Editor in game and adjust the statics the way you like and save, then jump out of your game and go into the individual configs and divide (if rescale smaller)/multiply(if rescale bigger) all the RadiusOffsets by the rescale factor for the body it works! It's so easy it could be easily automated, the trick would be doing it at the right time.

One problem is that a lot of the statics don't have a RadialOffset setting when first run, you have to save all of them. Then you can go and change all the altitudes.

Also their co-ordinates don't seem to exist either, not surprising but I'm going to have to hand edit everything I think and if anyone presses save in the editor it's going to be like Eve Clouds.

Edited May 30, 2016 by selfish_meme

[selfish_meme]

I also found another couple of config items that might be related I have aaked about them

 

[Luka 999]

Is it posible to edit the orbit of the objects?

[FireFaced]

I don't know if this has been asked before, but could you add an MM config in SigmaDimensions to adjust Kerbal Konstructs' statics?

[Sigma88]

1 hour ago, Luka 999 said:

Is it posible to edit the orbit of the objects?

not sure what you mean here, what SD can do is increase or decrease the size (semimajoraxis) of orbits.

you can change all the orbits at once by using the Rescale parameter, and you can use planet specific changes to do that only for specific planets

what you cannot do is change other parameters, like inclination, eccentricity ecc... use kopernicus for that.

1 hour ago, FireFaced said:

I don't know if this has been asked before, but could you add an MM config in SigmaDimensions to adjust Kerbal Konstructs' statics?

yup, it's already in the mod. it automatically rescales KK statics.

statics need to work on the standard size planet, if they are not working on the standard size planet they will not work in the resized version.

if you use the ingame editor to save the position of a static while on a resized planet, you need to go into the KK cfg and fix the altitude, otherwise SD will resize it in the next KSP start and your building will end up buried or flying

Edited June 2, 2016 by Sigma88

[Fireheart318]

I duplicated Kerbin and but can't flatten it. Should I just flatten actual Kerbin?

[Fireheart318]

5 hours ago, Luka 999 said:

Is it posible to edit the orbit of the objects?

Use Kopernicus

[secretly_asian]

Quick question, how would I edit the atmosphere of my 10x kerbol system so that as soon as i hit 130km i dont immediatley explode due to overheating? I feel like it should be more gradual. All I did when i resized the kerbol system was to increase atmosphere height to 1.857x, making 129997m the top of the atmosphere akin to the real world. 

[Fireheart318]

Finally! I managed to flatten Kerbin. I'm not gonna worry about Kerbin-Side 

floating. I need to raise the terrain by a meter so it doesn't count as the ocean. Please explain how!

[blowfish]

3 hours ago, secretly_asian said:

Quick question, how would I edit the atmosphere of my 10x kerbol system so that as soon as i hit 130km i dont immediatley explode due to overheating? I feel like it should be more gradual. All I did when i resized the kerbol system was to increase atmosphere height to 1.857x, making 129997m the top of the atmosphere akin to the real world. 

Overheating probably has very little to do with the atmosphere height.  Stock heating is balanced for re-entry at mach 7ish.  In a 10x/Real system, re-entry is more like mach 25, so stock heating is going to cause just about everything to explode.  I'd recommend turning down the re-entry heating in the difficulty settings or downloading RealHeat which makes heating realistic, i.e. sane in a full scale solar system.

[`Orum]

I've have some annoying behavior recently in my heavily modded install, and I think I've finally traced it back to Sigma Dimensions.  I'm using 64K and SCANsat, and I noticed when trying to adjust the colors on the SCANsat maps, the sliders for min/max altitude had insanely large values (e.g. gigameters for max altitude), which made setting the actual limits I wanted on the maps impossible, short of editing the SCANcolors.cfg file.  However, when looking at the first post in this thread, I noticed you have a scanAltitude setting, so I opened up 64K's config, and set that to 0.15625 (i.e. the inverse of 6.4), and manually set defaultMin/MaxHeightRange and rangeAboveMin/MaxHeight back to sane values in SCANcolors.cfg.  Now, these values would keep their setting, but this created another problem; now the scanners themselves would only work from a very low altitude.

I played around a little more, and I now know exactly how to reproduce the issue when using SD and SCANsat (and some scaling config like 64K).  This assumes you are leaving scanAltitude at 1 to allow scanners to scan from appropriate altitudes:

1. Make note of the defaultMinHeightRange, defaultMaxHeightRange, rangeBelowMinHeight, and rangeAboveMaxHeight in SCANcolors.cfg.
2. Start KSP.
3. Open up SCANsat's big map, and go into the configuration screen, and then the colors config.
4. Change any settings you want to, and then save them to config.  Now if you look at SCANcolors.cfg, those 4 values will be scaled by whatever your universe is scaled by (e.g. 6.4 if using 64K)
5. You can now change any other settings in SCANsat and save them, and and long as you don't close KSP, it those values won't be scaled any more.
6. Restart KSP, and reopen SCANsat and its color config.
7. Now if you change any settings again and save, those 4 values will again be scaled by your Resize value (so they are now the initial value * 6.4²).

As you can see, they will just keep growing, where they'll have a value of: V_c = V_i * R^x, where V_c = current value, V_i = initial value, R = resize value, and x = number of times you have initially saved a SCANsat color config after each KSP start.  This grows into those gigantic values pretty quickly, and as I said, while using the inverse of your resize value for scanAltitude fixes that behavior, it will cripple your scanners if you still have more bodies to scan.

I haven't yet tested with your latest prerelease, but I just wanted to make you aware of this ASAP.  Other than that, thanks for the excellent mod!

Edited June 3, 2016 by `Orum

[Luka 999]

6 hours ago, Fireheart318 said:

Use Kopernicus

OK. Thanks.

[Sigma88]

@secretly_asian@blowfish

SD somewhat takes into account the change in planet size and reentry heating

The changes i make are still very limited, basically because i do not know enough about the math behind physics settings

What I do is this:

https://github.com/Sigma88/Sigma-Dimensions/blob/master/GameData/Sigma/Dimensions/Configs/ReDimension/physicsModifier.cfg

It may look random but there's actually  reason behind it, when you reentry from LKO on stock you reach temperatures of 6000K (iirc)

This change will keep that same temperature regardless of what resize you use

The exploding upon contact should not happen. If you can reproduce this on a stock install with only mm kopernicus and SD, please send me the mm cache and ksp logs

 

@Fireheart318 you can't offset with SD you need to use kopernicus

 

 

@`Orum you cannot save stuff ingame sadly because scansat has no way to know I am rescaling it so it would save the raw numbers and then get them rescaled on the next restart

This is true for other mods as well, like kerbal Konstructs

If you want to edit numbers in game I suggest you do this:

1- Save the numbers as you want them in game

2- close ksp and go to the scansat folder

3- open the cfg files with the numbers you just saved

4- divide each of the numbers you saved by the Rescale parameter

5- start ksp, the new values should load fine

[Fireheart318]

16 minutes ago, Sigma88 said:

@secretly_asian@blowfish

SD somewhat takes into account the change in planet size and reentry heating

The changes i make are still very limited, basically because i do not know enough about the math behind physics settings

What I do is this:

https://github.com/Sigma88/Sigma-Dimensions/blob/master/GameData/Sigma/Dimensions/Configs/ReDimension/physicsModifier.cfg

It may look random but there's actually  reason behind it, when you reentry from LKO on stock you reach temperatures of 6000K (iirc)

This change will keep that same temperature regardless of what resize you use

The exploding upon contact should not happen. If you can reproduce this on a stock install with only mm kopernicus and SD, please send me the mm cache and ksp logs

 

@Fireheart318 you can't offset with SD you need to use kopernicus

Okay. How? I've actually never done that before

 

@`Orum you cannot save stuff ingame sadly because scansat has no way to know I am rescaling it so it would save the raw numbers and then get them rescaled on the next restart

This is true for other mods as well, like kerbal Konstructs

If you want to edit numbers in game I suggest you do this:

1- Save the numbers as you want them in game

2- close ksp and go to the scansat folder

3- open the cfg files with the numbers you just saved

4- divide each of the numbers you saved by the Rescale parameter

5- start ksp, the new values should load fine