Sigma Dimensions

[Sigma88]

@Fireheart318 you need to use a PQS mod to raise the terrain, I believe is called VertexHeightOffset or something like that

take a look at the kopernicus examples, I think one of them use this mod.

also, try not to quote me when I write a wall of text, it just clutters the thread.

[Sigma88]

since I haven't seen any bug report that are tied to the new version of SD I will make it a proper release sometimes this weekend, I just need the time to update SASS to use the new syntax

[`Orum]

7 hours ago, Sigma88 said:

@`Orum you cannot save stuff ingame sadly because scansat has no way to know I am rescaling it so it would save the raw numbers and then get them rescaled on the next restart

<snip>

That's what I've been doing, just it's quite tedious when you have to restart KSP a lot.

I was thinking more about it, and I think it should be possible to just scale the range of the scanning parts themselves, without affecting the color configuration variables.  I'd have to look at the code to be sure, so I'll poke around in it this weekend when I have a chance.  Worst case scenario, you could do it with a MM patch instead, and that does not affect those variables.

Edited June 3, 2016 by `Orum

[secretly_asian]

18 hours ago, blowfish said:

Overheating probably has very little to do with the atmosphere height.  Stock heating is balanced for re-entry at mach 7ish.  In a 10x/Real system, re-entry is more like mach 25, so stock heating is going to cause just about everything to explode.  I'd recommend turning down the re-entry heating in the difficulty settings or downloading RealHeat which makes heating realistic, i.e. sane in a full scale solar system.

Alright, I figured how to tune down heating in my physics.cfg, but that will be moot if i can get to the core of this problem, which is the atmosphere density curve, right now, the atmosphere after having rescaled with SD is too evenly distributed, with having atmospheric density equal to that of 20km in the real world at 50km in the game. When returning from minmus (Reentry at 10km/s with 65km pe) i experience about 10-20g of deceleration at 90km altitude, now this is using FAR, but i was wondering where i could fix the atmospheric curves to match RO. 

[DMagic]

@Sigma88 & @`Orum

The current method for handling this is not very good.

I'm planning on adding a dedicated multiplier value for the terrain ranges (multipliers for each value and each planet). This will be multiplied by the values in the config file and the save file (the actual values used in-game are stored in the save file, the config file is used for default values and new saves), and for dividing when saving new values.

I expect the next SCANsat update will be released shortly after 1.1.3.

The scanning part altitude values should work fine with MM configs, those can just be multiplied by whatever value you want; these are completely independent of the color config values. The only caveat is that the VAB/SPH info tab is generated before MM runs, so the values shown there won't be accurate.

Edited June 4, 2016 by DMagic

[blowfish]

4 hours ago, secretly_asian said:

Alright, I figured how to tune down heating in my physics.cfg, but that will be moot if i can get to the core of this problem, which is the atmosphere density curve, right now, the atmosphere after having rescaled with SD is too evenly distributed, with having atmospheric density equal to that of 20km in the real world at 50km in the game. When returning from minmus (Reentry at 10km/s with 65km pe) i experience about 10-20g of deceleration at 90km altitude, now this is using FAR, but i was wondering where i could fix the atmospheric curves to match RO. 

Ah I see the issue now.  When you increase the height of the atmosphere with SD, it doesn't just extend the atmosphere up, it scales the entire atmosphere.  Given that everything is done with curves now I don't think there's a way to just increase the maximum height without modifying the rest.  Kerbin's atmosphere is basically Earth's scaled down 80%, so if you wanted to scale it up realistically you would only multiply by 1.25.  But for such a large system the very thin upper layers of the atmosphere matter more - RSS puts the atmosphere boundary at 140 km, even though the equivalent point where Kerbin's atmosphere cuts off is <90 km.

[secretly_asian]

13 hours ago, blowfish said:

Ah I see the issue now.  When you increase the height of the atmosphere with SD, it doesn't just extend the atmosphere up, it scales the entire atmosphere.  Given that everything is done with curves now I don't think there's a way to just increase the maximum height without modifying the rest.  Kerbin's atmosphere is basically Earth's scaled down 80%, so if you wanted to scale it up realistically you would only multiply by 1.25.  But for such a large system the very thin upper layers of the atmosphere matter more - RSS puts the atmosphere boundary at 140 km, even though the equivalent point where Kerbin's atmosphere cuts off is <90 km.

So keeping the atmosphere at 140km, how would i go about actually changing the atmosphere curves and to what? I've got a keys chart open in my browser from RO, but that won't do me any good until i find what to actually edit.

[Sigma88]

6 hours ago, secretly_asian said:

So keeping the atmosphere at 140km, how would i go about actually changing the atmosphere curves and to what? I've got a keys chart open in my browser from RO, but that won't do me any good until i find what to actually edit.

if you just want to use the RSS atmosphere you can make a config that changes the atmosphere after SigmaDimensions and applies the RSS texture

like this:

@Kopernicus:FINAL
{
	@Body[Kerbin]
	{
		@Atmosphere
		{
			!pressureCurve {}
			pressureCurve
			{
				key = 0 101.325 0 -0.0119728
				key = 1000 89.9533 -0.0107930 -0.0107930		
				key = 2000 79.7002 -0.00972796 -0.00972796
				key = 3000 70.4681 -0.00875299 -0.00875299
				key = 4000 62.1611 -0.00787622 -0.00787622
				key = 5000 54.6878 -0.00708318 -0.00708318
				key = 6000 47.9713 -0.00636065 -0.00636065
				key = 7000 41.9464 -0.00569841 -0.00569841
				key = 8000 36.5557 -0.00509245 -0.00509245
				key = 9000 31.7442 -0.00453808 -0.00453808
				key = 10000 27.4653 -0.00402673 -0.00402673
				key = 12000 20.3414 -0.00312263 -0.00312263
				key = 14000 14.8737 -0.00237047 -0.00237047
				key = 16000 10.7635 -0.00176010 -0.00176010
				key = 18000 7.75613 -0.00126803 -0.00126803
				key = 20000 5.60721 -0.000901039 -0.000901039
				key = 22000 4.07935 -0.000642531 -0.000642531
				key = 24000 2.98525 -0.000462105 -0.000462105
				key = 26000 2.19595 -0.000334419 -0.000334419
				key = 28000 1.62339 -0.000243181 -0.000243181
				key = 30000 1.20625 -0.000177515 -0.000177515
				key = 35000 0.587912 -8.24999E-05 -8.24999E-05
				key = 40000 0.296475 -3.95921E-05 -3.95921E-05
				key = 45000 0.154505 -1.96895E-05 -1.96895E-05
				key = 50000 0.0823932 -1.02964E-05 -1.02964E-05
				key = 55000 0.0438116 -5.63015E-06 -5.63015E-06
				key = 60000 0.0226627 -3.07308E-06 -3.07308E-06
				key = 65000 0.0112639 -1.62393E-06 -1.62393E-06
				key = 70000 0.00535122 -8.22379E-07 -8.22379E-07
				key = 75000 0.00242788 -3.93412E-07 -3.93412E-07
				key = 80000 0.00106419 -1.78176E-07 -1.78176E-07
				key = 85000 0.000456540 -7.80320E-08 -7.80320E-08
				key = 90000 0.000192994 -3.33998E-08 -3.33998E-08
				key = 95000 8.14506E-05 -1.38984E-08 -1.38984E-08
				key = 100000 3.54530E-05 -5.71581E-09 -5.71581E-09
				key = 105000 1.63277E-05 -2.42049E-09 -2.42049E-09
				key = 110000 8.14746E-06 -1.04679E-09 -1.04679E-09
				key = 115000 4.54713E-06 -4.77713E-10 -4.77713E-10
				key = 121920 2.39321E-06 -1.98618E-10 -1.98618E-10
				key = 140000 0 0 0
			}
		}
	}
}

 

[secretly_asian]

2 minutes ago, Sigma88 said:

if you just want to use the RSS atmosphere you can make a config that changes the atmosphere after SigmaDimensions and applies the RSS texture

like this:

@Kopernicus:FINAL
{
	@Body[Kerbin]
	{
		@Atmosphere
		{
			!pressureCurve {}
			pressureCurve
			{
				key = 0 101.325 0 -0.0119728
				key = 1000 89.9533 -0.0107930 -0.0107930		
				key = 2000 79.7002 -0.00972796 -0.00972796
				key = 3000 70.4681 -0.00875299 -0.00875299
				key = 4000 62.1611 -0.00787622 -0.00787622
				key = 5000 54.6878 -0.00708318 -0.00708318
				key = 6000 47.9713 -0.00636065 -0.00636065
				key = 7000 41.9464 -0.00569841 -0.00569841
				key = 8000 36.5557 -0.00509245 -0.00509245
				key = 9000 31.7442 -0.00453808 -0.00453808
				key = 10000 27.4653 -0.00402673 -0.00402673
				key = 12000 20.3414 -0.00312263 -0.00312263
				key = 14000 14.8737 -0.00237047 -0.00237047
				key = 16000 10.7635 -0.00176010 -0.00176010
				key = 18000 7.75613 -0.00126803 -0.00126803
				key = 20000 5.60721 -0.000901039 -0.000901039
				key = 22000 4.07935 -0.000642531 -0.000642531
				key = 24000 2.98525 -0.000462105 -0.000462105
				key = 26000 2.19595 -0.000334419 -0.000334419
				key = 28000 1.62339 -0.000243181 -0.000243181
				key = 30000 1.20625 -0.000177515 -0.000177515
				key = 35000 0.587912 -8.24999E-05 -8.24999E-05
				key = 40000 0.296475 -3.95921E-05 -3.95921E-05
				key = 45000 0.154505 -1.96895E-05 -1.96895E-05
				key = 50000 0.0823932 -1.02964E-05 -1.02964E-05
				key = 55000 0.0438116 -5.63015E-06 -5.63015E-06
				key = 60000 0.0226627 -3.07308E-06 -3.07308E-06
				key = 65000 0.0112639 -1.62393E-06 -1.62393E-06
				key = 70000 0.00535122 -8.22379E-07 -8.22379E-07
				key = 75000 0.00242788 -3.93412E-07 -3.93412E-07
				key = 80000 0.00106419 -1.78176E-07 -1.78176E-07
				key = 85000 0.000456540 -7.80320E-08 -7.80320E-08
				key = 90000 0.000192994 -3.33998E-08 -3.33998E-08
				key = 95000 8.14506E-05 -1.38984E-08 -1.38984E-08
				key = 100000 3.54530E-05 -5.71581E-09 -5.71581E-09
				key = 105000 1.63277E-05 -2.42049E-09 -2.42049E-09
				key = 110000 8.14746E-06 -1.04679E-09 -1.04679E-09
				key = 115000 4.54713E-06 -4.77713E-10 -4.77713E-10
				key = 121920 2.39321E-06 -1.98618E-10 -1.98618E-10
				key = 140000 0 0 0
			}
		}
	}
}

 

Okay the keys were what i really needed thanks so much! I went ahead to edit the actual Sigma Dimensions body configs and everything works awesomely. No more explosions when reentering at mach 35 lol

[Sigma88]

Just now, secretly_asian said:

Okay the keys were what i really needed thanks so much! I went ahead to edit the actual Sigma Dimensions body configs and everything works awesomely. No more explosions when reentering at mach 35 lol

the keys are those from RSS

I have no idea what you mean by "edit the actual SigmaDimensions body configs" but it definitely sounds like a terrible idea

[secretly_asian]

4 minutes ago, Sigma88 said:

the keys are those from RSS

I have no idea what you mean by "edit the actual SigmaDimensions body configs" but it definitely sounds like a terrible idea

bleh i probably worded it weird. its in the /GameData/Sigma/Dimensions/Configs/Bodies/(insert planet name here).cfg. Since i changed the actual atmosphere heights in the .cfg's i changed the atmosphere multiplier height and visual height multiplier back to 1, I also backed everything up in case my ludicrous KSP build decides to rapidly and unexpectedly disassemble. 

Edited June 5, 2016 by secretly_asian

[Sigma88]

1 minute ago, secretly_asian said:

bleh i probably worded it weird. its in the /GameData/Sigma/Dimensions/Configs/Bodies/(insert planet name here).cfg. Since i changed the actual atmosphere heights in the .cfg's i changed the atmosphere multiplier height and visual height multiplier back to 1, I also backed everything up in case my ludicrous KSP build decides to rapidly and unexpectedly disassemble. 

ok I get what you mean

not terrible, still something that voids the warranty

 

[secretly_asian]

2 minutes ago, Sigma88 said:

ok I get what you mean

not terrible, still something that voids the warranty

 

Right because i'd totally demand my money back if and when this mod breaks my game 

[`Orum]

On 6/3/2016 at 10:52 PM, DMagic said:

I'm planning on adding a dedicated multiplier value for the terrain ranges (multipliers for each value and each planet). This will be multiplied by the values in the config file and the save file (the actual values used in-game are stored in the save file, the config file is used for default values and new saves), and for dividing when saving new values.

Thanks for the update, and that sounds like a reasonable fix, even if the info tabs aren't 100% accurate.

Also, thanks to your tip, I found out how to fix my issue with KSP locking up whenever I opened the "big" altimetry map of Laythe.  The defaultMinHeightRange / defaultMaxHeightRange values (with ridiculously high exponents) were saved in the game save file, so it wasn't even trying to load them from the SCANcolors.cfg.  Thus, when it tried to load the map, and generate the legend, it would try to put so much text down on the legend that it would instantly lock up KSP.  So, I had to dig through the massive save file to find those for Laythe, set them to sane values, go back into the game, and do the final adjustment and everything works now.

Just wanted to let other people know in case they were having problems.

Edited June 5, 2016 by `Orum

[Sigma88]

@AlphaAsh I was thinking about all these issues with rescaling planets and KK statics and I think I came up with an idea that may solve the "ingame savings" problems

DISCLAIMER: this fix would need to be implemented in KK, so I feel kinda weird in suggesting it since I don't usually like to tell other people to change their mods

 

the change would be pretty easy as far as I can tell, but my C# knowledge is pretty limited so it may be more complicated than I think.

 

I suppose that you are loading the RadiusOffset variable from the STATICS and using that value directly

what I have in mind is adding a new variable called something like RadiusMultiplier 

then you would multiply RadiusOffset and RadiusMultiplier to get the actual number to use ingame for the statics

for the editor you can make the user set the value ingame to the desired number but then, when saving it to cfg, save UserValue / RadiusMultiplier

this way, the cfg would always contain the RadiusOffset on the standard size planet, and SD can just change the RadiusMultiplier

 

what I like about this solution is that it would not break any of the old configs, since you can easily set the "RadiusMultiplier" default  value to 1

so even if none of the cfg have that key set to 1, you will always load all the statics properly

 

if this is not possible, too complicated, or just you don't want to bother with it.... no problems   I don't want to impose anything

[TheAurora]

I have been messing around with this for a while, and find it a great piece of work. My only observation is that the planet seems excessively bright from higher up. I would like to ask if this is normal, and if there may be a way to tone it down a bit. 

[Sigma88]

4 minutes ago, TheAurora said:

I have been messing around with this for a while, and find it a great piece of work. My only observation is that the planet seems excessively bright from higher up. I would like to ask if this is normal, and if there may be a way to tone it down a bit. 

do you have some screenshots? I'm not sure I get what you mean

[TheAurora]

3 minutes ago, Sigma88 said:

do you have some screenshots? I'm not sure I get what you mean

I can try to get some screenshots. I can try to describe it better. When I launch, the higher I get, the surface seems to get very bright. Almost like a light shade of blue. Once the higher altitude texture comes in, Kerbin looks normal, but below that level the whole planet looks rather bright and off color.

[Sigma88]

Just now, TheAurora said:

I can try to get some screenshots. I can try to describe it better. When I launch, the higher I get, the surface seems to get very bright. Almost like a light shade of blue. Once the higher altitude texture comes in, Kerbin looks normal, but below that level the whole planet looks rather bright and off color.

Oh yes I think I know what you are talking about. that's something I'm currently working on

[TheAurora]

 

8 minutes ago, Sigma88 said:

Oh yes I think I know what you are talking about. that's something I'm currently working on

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Lf_Kj38R5Qd4vzbVFOWYV48nLb1EXsX7xy1tQPRTJpI

Here is a link to a drive document with the screenshots. It is definitely not like regular Kerbin, or RSS.

Ohh, and my game is on a 10x rescale. I forgot to mention that. Though it happens on the 6.4 scale too.

[Sigma88]

Just now, TheAurora said:

 

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1Lf_Kj38R5Qd4vzbVFOWYV48nLb1EXsX7xy1tQPRTJpI

Here is a link to a drive document with the screenshots. It is definitely not like regular Kerbin, or RSS.

yes that's what I was thinking, it's a KSP feature that I'm not sure I am rescaling properly

which parameters are you using (out of curiosity)

[TheAurora]

6 minutes ago, Sigma88 said:

yes that's what I was thinking, it's a KSP feature that I'm not sure I am rescaling properly

which parameters are you using (out of curiosity)

I am playing on a 10x scale Kerbin. This current save has another atmosphere mod, though it doesn't impact this problem. I have this strange visual effect on just a simple stock install with sigma too. Landscape is scaled by .2 in order to make it a bit more natural. Day is set to 4x the normal amount. Those are all the changes I have made.

[Sigma88]

2 minutes ago, TheAurora said:

I am playing on a 10x scale Kerbin. This current save has another atmosphere mod, though it doesn't impact this problem. I have this strange visual effect on just a simple stock install with sigma too. Landscape is scaled by .2 in order to make it a bit more natural. Day is set to 4x the normal amount. Those are all the changes I have made.

so Resize 10 and landscape 0.2

I'll take a look

[OhioBob]

@Sigma88, I just found what appears to be a couple bugs.

First, there is something screwy going on when atmoASL<>1.  With atmoASL=1 everything looks good, but when atmoASL is anything other than 1, Kerbin's atmospheric pressure is all messed up.  For example, these are the pressures I read at the KSC launch pad (stock atmosphere):

atmoASL = 1.5 ---> pressure = 16,260,489,000 Pa
atmoASL = 1.2 ---> pressure = 6,504,256,000 Pa
atmoASL = 1.0 ---> pressure = 100,759.6 Pa
atmoASL = 0.8 ---> pressure = 0
atmoASL = 0.5 ---> pressure = 0

From what I can tell, the problem appears to be isolated to Kerbin.  I dropped a probe through the atmospheres of Eve and Jool, and the pressures there looked to be correctly factored.

The second problem has to do with the temperature displayed in the information panel in the Tracking Station.  When tempASL<>1, the displayed temperature doesn't change.  Only the display temperature is wrong – when I took actual temperature measurements, they appeared to be OK.  You probably need to add some code to factor the parameter temperatureSeaLevel, which is the TS display temperature.  (temperatureSeaLevel is the Kopernicus name, the internal name is atmosphereTemperatureSeaLevel.)

These tests were conducted in a fresh install with the following mods installed:  KER, Hyperedit, Kopernicus, and Sigma Dimensions.  I originally had Realistic Atmospheres installed, but when the problem occurred I deleted it and repeated the tests.  The same problem occurred with or without Realistic Atmospheres.

 

Edited June 8, 2016 by OhioBob

[Sigma88]

@OhioBob the first bug is a very silly bug and I should have solved it in the latest pre-release

The second bug, do you mean on kerbin only? Or all atmospheric bodies?

 

to be more specific:

Kerbin will always show 1 atm surface pressure. regardless of what the real surface pressure is

this is due to the fact that changing the pressure at surface level of kerbin would mess up engine parts, I'm not sure what the problem is but it seems like ksp uses the kerbin atmospheric pressure to calculate how powerful engines are.

for this reason when I change the pressureASL of kerbin I add a sliver of atmosphere at 0 meters altitude with 1 atm pressure, then jump to the new pressure some millimeters up.

on the other planets the atmosphere pressure in the tracking station should be displayed correctly, if not that's probably a bug

edit: wait, you were talking about temperatures.... derp  yes, I definitely need to fix that (and should be pretty easy)

Edited June 8, 2016 by Sigma88