Is this alternate solar system possible?

[Spaceception]

16 minutes ago, ChrisSpace said:

Front post updated. Luna grew, Mars shrank, Tyche was pushed further out and Planet Nine has been added.

Isn't the reason Mars lost it's water (2 bya may I add) was because it was too small? I know there's a moon, but I don't really see how it could sustain a strong magnetic field to keep it's atmosphere, temperature and water.

Also, I don't see Planet 9.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Spaceception

[fredinno]

3 hours ago, Andem said:

I remade my best interpretation of the system, with a more details added. the result was relatively different, Mars, Earth, Luna, and Minerva are all Habitable. Mars has perpetual Ice Ages, The North pole will descend and the south will receed for half the year, vice versa the other half. it is -20 degrees on average, so make sure you're bundled up on the surface. Earth is earth, duh, but Luna can only stay habitable naturally for about a year and a half before freezing over. Minerva is -2 degrees on average, and is quite hospitable provided you have a thick coat. Now for politics! Mars comes dangerously close to earth every 5 years or so, coming within Lunas' orbit. Every 5 years a colony ship is sent to start expanding earth nations onto mars' surface. the french control most of Mars' main continent, leaving Germany, Belgium, And England to control the a majority of the small islands. local populations combat the first three colonization attempts, but are eventually wiped out by a massive french invasion force. the other nations quietly begin to grab up islands all over the planet, eventually claiming a majority of it as "Governed Territories." Much fear is present on earth, because Auroras' orbit is highly unstalbe, and common belief is that mars will push it into an orbit where Luna will slingshot it into earth. some groups suggest putting it into orbit around mars at the next approach, while other wish to blow it out of the sky. it is a source of tension between nations, as no government can agree on a potential solution, although each nation knows that it will only work as an international effort. France starts a secret program to weaponize Aurora, called Lune de Sang. construction begins, but the project is abandoned less than a month into construction. France is in svere debt, and attempts to pull off a scheme similar to the South Sea bubble, but this plan fails, and France loses control of the Martian colonies. Russian scientists toy with way's to terraform Minerva, but when Julian Delphiki becomes the first human to step foot on it's surface, they seriously begin working on the idea, using the structure of plant leaves to create artificial photosynthesis.They start the machines, and begin plans for colonies. further exploration occurs.France has invested heavily in russias' plan,hoping it will revive the dying french economy. then first contact is made with the primitive natives. the world is horrified, and russia immediately abandons the machines, eaving them to rust on minerva. Frances' economy is destroyed. The Empire falls into dissarray, reemerging as a pseudo-communist state. eh? Just an Idea...

 

--EDIT--

Minerva will remain capable of life, but the oceans will eventually freeze over and the ecosystem will collapse.

Mars is incredibly stable, good climate, perfect for human colonization. 

Venus is still a hellhole.

Vulcan's surface STILL hasn't heated up to the point where there is surface lava.

Please post your orbital statistics and planetary atmospheres/composition. Your data seems really off from Spaceeptions'.

[fredinno]

1 hour ago, ChrisSpace said:

I already have a rough draft of how to add P9 to this solar system without removing anything. I'll update the front post with it soon-ish.

I can immediately see how you messed up here. But first, can you show us the stats of the planets you made? Both size/mass and atmosphere related preferably.

 

Wouldn't it make more sense to make Phersphone the 9th planet tho? I really doubt there would be 2 Oort Cloud planets, we already have 2 + Neptune objects screwing with the Oort Clound Object Orbits. Another isn't necessary. And can you give statistics for all the planets in your simulations too, with temperature, atmosphere, composition, etc. 3 sims are better than one- and for some reason, none of them seem to be aligning. Make sure all the stuff from the front post are added.

53 minutes ago, Spaceception said:

Yeah, I figured that out, is it a bug?

I did too, maybe Andem didn't look at the front page closely enough.

It's a limit of the simulation, likely. And can you give statistics for all the planets in your simulations too, with temperature, atmosphere, composition, etc. 3 sims are better than one- and for some reason, none of them seem to be aligning. Make sure all the stuff from the front post are added.

47 minutes ago, ChrisSpace said:

Front post updated. Luna grew, Mars shrank, Tyche was pushed further out and Planet Nine has been added.

Darn, you had to do that just when I was making my finishing touches to V1.3! Oh well. 

1 hour ago, Spaceception said:

Isn't the reason Mars lost it's water (2 bya may I add) was because it was too small? I know there's a moon, but I don't really see how it could sustain a strong magnetic field to keep it's atmosphere, temperature and water.

Also, I don't see Planet 9.

It was the combination of being small and its lack of magnetic field- though seems to be more latter than the former. Honestly though, ChrisSpace, making Mars even smaller is a bad idea- make it less able to keep onto its atmosphere. We already kind of determined Mars was around the minimum mass for that, I think. 

 

And the moon, should, in theory, heat up the core enough to give it a magnetic field. That's why it's there.

[Andem]

Name Vulcan
Mass 5.77x Moon
Surface Temperature 300 degrees celsius
Gravity 5.45 m/s2
Makeup 95% Iron, 5% Silicate, 0% Water, 0% Organics
Atmo Pressure 0

Name Venus
Mass 66.2x Moon
Surface Temperature 531 degrees celsius
Gravity 8.87 m/s2
Makeup 20% Iron, 80% Silicate, 0.001% Water, 0.0000000000000006% Organics
Atmo Pressure 91.3 (Forgot to modify this one... that should explain a lot...)

Name Earth
Mass 1x Earth
Surface Temperature 24.9 degrees celsius
Gravity 9.82 m/s2
Makeup 24.7% Iron, 75.3% Silicate, 0.02% Water, 0.00000000067% Organics
Atmo Pressure 0.969

Name Luna
Mass 7.05x Moon
Surface Temperature 193 degrees celsius (It seems the water boiled off into the atmophere... damn you runaway greenhouse affect!)
Gravity 3.14 m/s2
Makeup 15% Iron, 85% Silicate, 0.01% Water, 0.000000000561% Organics
Atmo Pressure 0.856

Name Mars (My Favorite)
Mass 12.2x Moon
Surface Temperature -32.5 degrees celsius
Gravity 4.2 m/s2
Makeup 10% Iron, 90% Silicate, 0.01% Water (And half the surface is frozen!), 0.0000000006% Organics
Atmo Pressure 0.0103

Name Minerva
Mass 8x Earth
Surface Temperature -57.7 degrees celsius
Gravity 25 m/s2
Makeup 24.7% Iron, 75.3% Silicate, 0.0626% Water, 0.00000000067% Organics
Atmo Pressure 0.785

All the other planets are behaving normally... I uncovered a few errors of mine, which will be rectified shortly.

 

Also, the Orbital parameters provided for the planets have been followed as closely as possible, as for the moons I have been working on educated guesses and assumptions from their descriptions.

 

--EDIT-- 

By lowering Venus' atmospheric pressure to logical levels the temperature dropped to much more accurate levels.

--EDIT 2--

Luna Has an stable, breathable atmosphere, but can't seem to have liquid water or a safe temperature... It seems that having the atmosphere is lowering the Albedo and holding in the heat, Luna is like a mini Vonus from OTL...

--EDIT 3--

Minerva snowballs no matter how dense I make the atmosphere... it's just far enough from the sun where it experiances a reverse runaway greenhouse affect... the Albedo is so high that the surface can't heat up enough to melt... not kidding, I put the atmosphere to 100000 atmospheres and the whole thing froze over... I'm leaving it at ten atmospheres because it seems appropriate for the current description.

Edited January 27, 2016 by Andem

[fredinno]

1 hour ago, Spaceception said:

Isn't the reason Mars lost it's water (2 bya may I add) was because it was too small? I know there's a moon, but I don't really see how it could sustain a strong magnetic field to keep it's atmosphere, temperature and water.

Also, I don't see Planet 9.

It's there.

[fredinno]

@ChrisSpaceI have a few problems: 

1. Why is Mars made smaller?

2. Tyche, Phersephone, and Pluto are likely too much in the Oort Cloud- I doubt the solar system ejected that much. Maybe we can move Tyche to Nibiru?

3. The Rouge Planets and Nibiru are now outside the solar system, which ends at 1 Ly away from the Sun. There really is no point to talking about the if they are outside the solar system. This is the Alternarte solar system project, after all.

4. We need to talk about Aurora's mass.

5. PLEASE HIGHLIGHT YOUR CHANGES LIKE I DO!!! It's freaking confusing otherwise, since it's so big.

 

The V1.3 coming soon also has a rouge planet for Spaceeption.

 

Also... ChrisSpace, I think we might need a second thread to deal with the Universe Sandbox stuff seperately. This is already getting confusing and chaotic.

[Spaceception]

22 minutes ago, fredinno said:

It's a limit of the simulation, likely. And can you give statistics for all the planets in your simulations too, with temperature, atmosphere, composition, etc. 3 sims are better than one- and for some reason, none of them seem to be aligning. Make sure all the stuff from the front post are added.

Alright, It should take me about half an hour to an hour.

[fredinno]

11 minutes ago, Andem said:

Name Vulcan
Mass 5.77x Moon
Surface Temperature 300 degrees celsius
Gravity 5.45 m/s2
Makeup 95% Iron, 5% Silicate, 0% Water, 0% Organics
Atmo Pressure 0

Name Venus
Mass 66.2x Moon
Surface Temperature 531 degrees celsius
Gravity 8.87 m/s2
Makeup 20% Iron, 80% Silicate, 0.001% Water, 0.0000000000000006% Organics
Atmo Pressure 91.3 (Forgot to modify this one... that should explain a lot...)

Name Earth
Mass 1x Earth
Surface Temperature 24.9 degrees celsius
Gravity 9.82 m/s2
Makeup 24.7% Iron, 75.3% Silicate, 0.02% Water, 0.00000000067% Organics
Atmo Pressure 0.969

Name Luna
Mass 7.05x Moon
Surface Temperature 193 degrees celsius (It seems the water boiled off into the atmophere... damn you runaway greenhouse affect!)
Gravity 3.14 m/s2
Makeup 15% Iron, 85% Silicate, 0.01% Water, 0.000000000561% Organics
Atmo Pressure 0.856

Name Mars (My Favorite)
Mass 12.2x Moon
Surface Temperature -32.5 degrees celsius
Gravity 4.2 m/s2
Makeup 10% Iron, 90% Silicate, 0.01% Water (And half the surface is frozen!), 0.0000000006% Organics
Atmo Pressure 0.0103

Name Minerva
Mass 8x Earth
Surface Temperature -57.7 degrees celsius
Gravity 25 m/s2
Makeup 24.7% Iron, 75.3% Silicate, 0.0626% Water, 0.00000000067% Organics
Atmo Pressure 0.785

All the other planets are behaving normally... I uncovered a few errors of mine, which will be rectified shortly.

 

Also, the Orbital parameters provided for the planets have been followed as closely as possible, as for the moons I have been working on educated guesses and assumptions from their descriptions.

 

--EDIT-- 

By lowering Venus' atmospheric pressure to logical levels the temperature dropped to much more accurate levels.

I think Mars might be a little too cold for intelligent life. What do you think, ChrisSpace? Also, Mars needs more atmosphere. I think 40-60 percent earth is a minimum.

Minevera needs to be a lot warmer- and it's supposed to be less massive too, around the 6x Earth-4x mark, I think, so reduce that please. I would suggest raising Minervera water to 0.1 percent-0.14 Percent. And Minevera needs a lot more atmosphere- 6 atm would be more reasonable.

 

Generally, all the bodies masses in general need to follow what the front post says more exactly. 

 

Luna seems to have way too may organics. Did you add that yourself, or was it a concequence of a runaway greenhouse? I doubt it would get warmer than Earth for some reason. And in simulation, it should probably be tidally locked (in GEO)- the only reason why it is not in the front post is for storyline purposes. 

 

You forgot Mercury....

 

Venus is supposed to have little water. I would put in maybe a tenth of Earth's water percentage.

 

And what is the orbital parameters of Vulcan? It seems to me it's taken the place of Mercury for some reason....

9 minutes ago, Spaceception said:

Alright, It should take me about half an hour to an hour.

Thanks.

[Andem]

6 minutes ago, fredinno said:

I think Mars might be a little too cold for intelligent life. What do you think, ChrisSpace? Also, Mars needs more atmosphere. I think 40-60 percent earth is a minimum.

Minevera needs to be a lot warmer- and it's supposed to be less massive too, around the 6x Earth-4x mark, I think, so reduce that please. I would suggest raising Minervera water to 0.1 percent-0.14 Percent. And Minevera needs a lot more atmosphere- 6 atm would be more reasonable.

 

Generally, all the bodies masses in general need to follow what the front post says more exactly. 

 

Luna seems to have way too may organics. Did you add that yourself, or was it a concequence of a runaway greenhouse? I doubt it would get warmer than Earth for some reason. And in simulation, it should probably be tidally locked (in GEO)- the only reason why it is not in the front post is for storyline purposes. 

 

You forgot Mercury....

 

Venus is supposed to have little water. I would put in maybe a tenth of Earth's water percentage.

 

And what is the orbital parameters of Vulcan? It seems to me it's taken the place of Mercury for some reason....

In my sim, mars is only -30 degrees roughly, that seems within the real of reason to me.

 

I added the organics under that the closest habitable body would be inhabited, but they all literally boiled off into the atmosphere due to the relative density. Luna is tidally locked, and Luna's Albedo is too low relative to the density of the atmosphere.

I didn't include any planets that were behaving normally, including Mercury.

I lowered it a bit, but that really didn't change much, most of it was in the atmosphere anyway.

Vulcan: inclination: 11.8 degrees distance to sun: 29188987km (0.195116327AU)

[fredinno]

28 minutes ago, Andem said:

In my sim, mars is only -30 degrees roughly, that seems within the real of reason to me.

 

I added the organics under that the closest habitable body would be inhabited, but they all literally boiled off into the atmosphere due to the relative density. Luna is tidally locked, and Luna's Albedo is too low relative to the density of the atmosphere.

I didn't include any planets that were behaving normally, including Mercury.

I lowered it a bit, but that really didn't change much, most of it was in the atmosphere anyway.

Vulcan: inclination: 11.8 degrees distance to sun: 29188987km (0.195116327AU)

-30 degrees is likely too cold to support the complex life that builds up to intelligent life. How about -20 degrees?

 

Wait, is Luna's albedo like OTL moon? You're better off using something like Earth as the basis, then reduce the mass from there. The Moon has less albedo than the Earth. Try that.

 

So what are the properties of Venus now? I suggested dividing the water level by 10, not lowering it by 'a bit'. That level should make a difference.

 

Vulcan seems normal. In Spaceception's simulations though, there are almost exact properties done, but it's not having a thin atmosphere and comet tail like in his? Huh, weird. The original (at least on my copy of the 1st post) is 0.13 AU, so try that if there is no comet tail and molten surface.

[Andem]

8 minutes ago, fredinno said:

-30 degrees is likely too cold to support the complex life that builds up to intelligent life. How about -20 degrees?

 

Wait, is Luna's albedo like OTL moon? You're better off using something like Earth as the basis, then reduce the mass from there. The Moon has less albedo than the Earth. Try that.

 

So what are the properties of Venus now? I suggested dividing the water level by 10, not lowering it by 'a bit'. That level should make a difference.

 

Vulcan seems normal. In Spaceception's simulations though, there are almost exact properties done, but it's not having a thin atmosphere and comet tail like in his? Huh, weird. The original (at least on my copy of the 1st post) is 0.13 AU, so try that if there is no comet tail and molten surface.

I already have a very complex sim going currently, and i'm opting to just start a new one. do you have a good all purpose template that can be easily modified without US2 having a fit?

[insert_name]

just fyi luna is very dark otl, I suggest increasing the albedo to something similar to earth 

[Spaceception]

Alrighty, that took awhile. The system lasted 141 years by the time I finished it, then I closed it out to write this.

Vulcan: Mass 0.071 | Earths Radii 2467 km | .473 g | Temp 718 c (There was visible lava) | .665 Atm | Albedo .40 | Materials; 74% Iron, 26% Silicates | Eccentricity 0.06 | Inclination 12.7 | Orbital period 27 days | .16 by .18 AU | Tidally locked | Comet tail |

Mercury: Same

Venus: Mass/Radii/Gravity same | Temp 45.3 c | 1.8 Atm | Albedo: I forgot:/ It was high though. | Materials; Iron: 20%, Silicates 80%, Water 0.000995%, Organics 0.00600 | Inclination 33.8 | Orbital period 270 days (.8 AU) | 1.1 rotational period | Magnetic field .3 Gauss | Eros: Fit the specifications.

Earth: Same, save for a .1.8 c increase. Luna: Mass 8.3 moons | 3374 km | .36 g | 12.6 | .53 Atm | Albedo .78 | Materials; 30.1% Iron, 69.9 Silicates, 0.0100 Water, 0.00900 Organics | 1.1 rotational period | Magnetic field .1 Gauss |

Mars: Mass/Radii//Gravity/Day/night cycle same | Temp 9.39 c | .8 Atm | Albedo .73 | Materials; 16.7% Iron, 83.3 Silicates, 0.00200% Water, 0.01000% Organics | Orbital period, I didn't check:/ | 1.3 AU | Magnetic field .2 Gauss | Bellona: Fit the specifications |

And Finally;

Minerva: Mass 8 Earths | 10862 km | 2.7 g | 9.06 c | 2.7 Atm | Albedo .08 | Materials; Iron 40.6, SIlicates 59.2%, Water 0.0999%, Organics 0.0800% | Orbital period, I forgot; again:/ | 1.74 AU | 1.8 rotational period | Magnetic field: 1 Gauss |

Whew, that took awhile, what do you think?

Edited January 27, 2016 by Spaceception

[silversliver]

@Spaceception

In your simulations how is Vulcan's tail made? In my simulation resulted the opposite (more dust and less gas) of what I showed in the images (more gas and less dust).

[Spaceception]

4 minutes ago, silversliver said:

@Spaceception

In your simulations how is Vulcan's tail made? In my simulation resulted the opposite (more dust and less gas) of what I showed in the images (more gas and less dust).

It's a mixture of Atm, Temp, and Albedo.

[silversliver]

6 minutes ago, Spaceception said:

It's a mixture of Atm, Temp, and Albedo.

Yes,but I mean the composition of the tail.

[Spaceception]

3 minutes ago, silversliver said:

Yes,but I mean the composition of the tail.

Not sure actually, gas I think.

[silversliver]

7 minutes ago, Spaceception said:

Not sure actually, gas I think.

Ok, thanks. Seems that I need a more accurate model to simulate it.

[Spaceception]

Just now, silversliver said:

Ok, thanks. Seems that I need a more accurate model to simulate it.

What did you think of the rest of the sim?

[silversliver]

6 minutes ago, Spaceception said:

What did you think of the rest of the sim?

All seems good, for me Venus resulted a bit hotter than yours.

But as I said before for Universe Sandbox you need a lot of parameters to have an accurate simulation, something that we're lacking, so it would be better to decide before the physical characteristics, than do the simulations.

[Spaceception]

5 minutes ago, silversliver said:

All seems good, for me Venus resulted a bit hotter than yours.

How much more hotter, cant you just increase the Albedo?

[silversliver]

8 minutes ago, Spaceception said:

How much more hotter, cant you just increase the Albedo?

10 °C, I know, I made the surface quite dark.

[Spaceception]

3 minutes ago, silversliver said:

10 °C, I know, I made the surface quite dark.

10 c isn't too bad, at least it wasn't like 20-30 c.

[Spaceception]

Later today, I'm going to characterize the rouge planets a bit more.

Don't worry, I'll highlight the add-ons (And won't add too much).

[Findthepin1]

US2's climate simulator is far from accurate. Luna, given an Earthlike atmosphere, is going to have a temperature only a bit warmer than Earth for the time that the atmosphere lasts.  They are at the same distance from the Sun and are made of the same things. If you give the built-in Mars an Venuslike atmosphere it should become more Venuslike, not have the entire atmosphere freeze out at the poles like the simulator said the last time I tried it. If you take the 0.0004 atm of CO2 out of Earth's atmosphere, the planet will not dip to an average temperature of -60 degrees Celsius in real life. We can probably try to calculate it ourselves and get a more accurate number.