1.0.5 Kerbal-Powered Flight

[Geschosskopf]

Kerbal-Powered Flight

***** RULES TWEAKS 2 Jan 16 *****

NOTE:  If you can make a better patch, show me and maybe I'll adopt it.

INTRODUCTION:  This is a silly challenge that revolves around using the mysterious forces exerted by moving Kerbals (usually when on ladders) to move ships in KSP.  Still, when used deliberately, it can (when used responsibly) result in marginally plausible Kerbal-powered vehicles on land, water, and in the air.  I don't condone using this for space travel (although it's possible) so everything in this challenge must remain in the atmosphere of Kerbin.  Anyway, the idea here is to have fun and be at least marginally plausible (assuming the superpowered biology of Kerbals)..

GOAL:  Create a flyable aircraft whose motive power comes exclusively from the motions of Kerbals, and fly it to a safe landing on Airbase Island.  Or further away.  The sky is literally the limit.

RULES:

1.  The atmosphere and heat models used must be stock 1.0.5 (or later, if this lasts that long).  No FAR unless there's a huge demand for it.  If FAR does become legal, entrants using it will be grouped in a separate category from stock.

2.  All parts of the aircraft and all in-flight information used to control it must be pure stock.  You can use various instrumentation mods to build the aircraft, you just can't fly it with them.

3.  If you can get EVA Followers to work in 1.0.5, you can use it during flight (see scoring categories below)).  But do make it available for others.

4.  The aircaft's motive power must be derived exclusively from the movement of at least 1 Kerbal. 

5.  The Kerbal(s) used for motive power must remain on EVA, not in command seats or pods, for the entire dureation of the flight.

6.  Passenger Kerbals may be carried, in pods and/or command chairs, but cannot be used for motive power at any point.

7.  The aircraft may have electric power (for probe core, lights, SAS, etc.) provided nothing electric contributes to motive power on the ground or in the air.

8.  All flights must begin at KSC (runway or launchpad)  and end on the island runway.  The aircraft cannot touch the ground or water at any point between.

9  Indirect routes are allowed, to score more points for distance traveled.  Pre-placed flags/ships on the map may be used as markers to show distances in screenshots.  For purposes of this challenge, a more or less direct run from KSC to Airbase Island is considered 30km.

10.  The aircraft must rise from the ground under Kerbal power and maintain controlled, sustained flight for the duration, then make a safe landing at Airbase Island without damage to itself or harm to or loss of any of the Kerbals who were aboard when the flight started.

2 Jan 16:  10.a.:  For purposes of this challenge, "flying" is defined as using aerodynamic forces on aerodynamic surfaces (wings, rotors, lifting bodies, etc.)  to keep the aircraft above ground.  IOW, no ballistic trajectories.  A "flying" condition must be maintained for the entire duration of the flight including takeoff and landing.  Thus, parachute landings are not allowed.

2 Jan 16:  10.b.:  While "flying", the aircraft must be controllable via control surfaces, torque, RCS, shifting the Kerbal's weight, etc.  Control must be demonstrated by a reasonably significant change of direction while "flying".  IOW, you can't face the aircraft towards Airbase Island before takeoff and fly straight there without making any turns.  However, taking off along the runway then turning to face Airbase Island is a sufficient definition of control.  Of course, doing aerobatic maneuvers, flying under bridges, etc., also demonstrate control.

11.  Successful entrants must provide proof in terms of screenshots or video for all achievements claimed.

12.  At least marginal plausibility must be maintained.  Thus, airplanes, helicopters, ornithopters, etc. (IOW, wings or rotors) are OK.  Just putting a ladder in a cage is NOT OK.

13.  All who complete the basic requirements get to wear the patch.

14.  For bragging rights, flights will be ranked on a number of categories, such as hightest altitude, longest distance, highest level/climbing speed, nubmer of Kerbals carried, etc.

For proof of my own success at this, see my next post in this thread.

SCORING:

DISTANCE TRAVELED

1.  Chemp (3806km)

2.  Speeding Mullet (31km)

3.  Chemp (30km)

4.  Geschosskopf (30km)

5.

 

ALTITUDE (rounded to nearest 10m)

1.  Chemp: (27200m)

2.  Geschosskopf (3800m)

3.  Speeding Mullet (1640m)

4.  Chemp (830m)

5.

 

LEVEL/CLIMBING SPEED

1. Chemp (310m/s at 20km+)

2.  Geschosskopf (49.2m/s)

3.  Speeding Mullet (45.7m/s)

5.

 

KERBALS CARRIED

1.  Chemp (1) and (1)

2.  Geschosskopf (1)

3.  Speeding Mullet (1 who nearly fell off)

4. 

 

STYLE POINTS  (extra achievements beyond the minimum, to be ranked by peer review)

*  Chemp (non-stop circumnavigation plus detours and backtracking)

*  Speeding Mullet: Kerbal fell off ladder and made safe landing clinging to tailplanes

*  Chemp: Kerbal doing entire flight feet-first.

*  Chemp circumnavigated Kerbin (doesn't count for this challenge but still way cool)

 

Edited January 31, 2016 by Geschosskopf
Chemp's non-stop circumnavigation of Kerbin

[Geschosskopf]

PROOF I DID IT

I did the bare minimum.  1 Kerbal, 30km, 3800m highesst altitude, 49m/s highest level/climb speed.

Craft file

PILOT'S NOTES:

Spoiler

 

Pre-Flight Proceedure:  Stage the plane off the launch clamp, let it roll a few meters down the runway, then apply brakes.  Turn on SAS and rotate the nose up a little to bring the ladders on the rear within reach of a Kerbal on the ground.  SAS will hold this attitude.  Switch to launch clamp, EVA, drop to ground, climb onto plane, and grab the central ladder facing forward.  Facing forward might take several attempts and is more likely to happen if the plane's nose is higher than its tail.  Switch back to the launch clamp and stage it to destroy the lander can, which helps with the plane's navball functionality.  IMMEDIATELY switch back to the plane/Kerbal before the lander can gets too far away.

Takeoff:  Switch to plane.  Wait for lander can to finish exploding then release brakes and rotate nosewheel back onto or just above ground.  A slight nose-up attitude helps getting airborne.  Steer as necessary to have heading of 090  Switch to Kerbal and begin "pedaling" by holding W.  Plane will start accelerating due to Kerbal head-butting the column of struts in front of the ladder.  Eventually, plane will reach flying speed, ROG, and begin a slow climb.  Do not attempt to turn until after you pass the SPH, by which time you'l be far enough away from the launch clamp that you can't switch to it accidentally.

Flight Maneuvers:  Throttle is controlled by switching to the Kerbal and holding W (forward thrust), S (reverse thrust), or neither (gliding).  Moving the Kerbal to 1 end or other of the ladder and leaving him there alters the position of the CoM and gives some attitude control.  However, the primary means of controlling the plane's direction of travel is to switch to the plane and use the WASDQE keys as with a normal plane.  This means that all maneuvers are performed in glides and the plane slows down quickly in level or climbing attitudes without thrust happening.  Therefore, never begin a maneuver without sufficient speed and/or altitude to complete it.  Except in dives, complex maneuvers must be broken into segments so you can pedal to regain speed in process.

Landing:  Maintain reasonably high altitude until very near the destination, then dive steeply towards the landing zone.  During the descent, apply reverse thrust as needed to keep speed under control.  Level off just above ground into a slightly nose-high attitude, then switch back to the Kerbal and apply reverse thrust as need to kill remaining speed and begin to settle gently down.  At or just before touchdown, switch back to plane and apply brakes

 

.

Pics
 

Spoiler

 

 

 

 

 

Edited January 3, 2016 by Geschosskopf

[Pds314]

This challenge is actually substantially harder using FAR. Stock aero is extremely forgiving at low speeds and doesn't care much about mach number. I.e. the stall speeds for supersonic planes in stock are probably half those in FAR.

Edited January 1, 2016 by Pds314

[Geschosskopf]

23 minutes ago, Pds314 said:

This challenge is actually substantially harder using FAR. Stock aero is extremely forgiving at low speeds and doesn't care much about mach number. I.e. the stall speeds for supersonic planes in stock are probably half those in FAR.

I wasn't implying FAR makes it easy.  It's just that challenges only work if everybody uses the same starting conditions, so results can be compared directly.  If some folks have FAR and some folks have stock air, this isn't possible in a challenge based on flight.  And having a separate category for each only works if there are enough entrants in both groups for them to have a meaningful competitions within each group.  Plus, I'm not even sure this will work at all in FAR for the reason you stated.

So, it seemed best, at least to start with, to limit this to stock air.  But as stated in the rules, if this can be done in FAR and enough people with FAR do it, I will create a separate ranking list for FAR entrants.  So if you want to do this with FAR, give it a try and post up how it goes.  That will do a lot to persuade me to open a FAR category

[Panel]

I don't have access to my computer right now, but I'll be sure to try it. Are parachutes allowed for the landing?

[Geschosskopf]

11 hours ago, Panel said:

I don't have access to my computer right now, but I'll be sure to try it. Are parachutes allowed for the landing?

Oooopsie.  No, they're not.  Thanks for pointing that out.

Originally, the 1st post had that rule and also my proof of doing it myself, but a forum glitch ate everything from about Rule #4 down when I posted it.  And because I stupidly hadn't written it down or copied it to clipboard before I hit the submit button, I had to redo the rules from memory and forgot that one.

I'll fix that now.

EDIT:  And apologies for not thanking you for your interest in this challenge.  I look forward to seeing your flying machine

Edited January 2, 2016 by Geschosskopf

[Pds314]

I dare someone to, in one continuous launch, take off from Kerbin in one of these, and fly to Jool.

[Evanitis]

Well, these have infinite dV, so once in orbit, the sky is the limit (well, the sky and your patience). It never occured to me to test if such design have a chance to get there.

[Geschosskopf]

3 hours ago, Pds314 said:

I dare someone to, in one continuous launch, take off from Kerbin in one of these, and fly to Jool.

That is specifically prohibited by the rules, especially the one which states that the motivating Kerbal cannot ever occupy a command chair or pod.  That largely precludes warping and without warping, you're not going to bother even going to Mun.  Besides, you have to maintain at least marginal plausibility.

Interplanetary flight by ladder was possible several versions ago but the furthest out I ever went was Duna.  @Tw1 went to Eve.  These days with atmospheric heating, I doubt you could get going fast enough to escape Kerbin's atmosphere, let alone go elsewhere.  And even if you could, you're extremely unlikely to survive reentry upon return.

[Matuchkin]

On 1/3/2016 at 9:00 AM, Geschosskopf said:

That is specifically prohibited by the rules, especially the one which states that the motivating Kerbal cannot ever occupy a command chair or pod.  That largely precludes warping and without warping, you're not going to bother even going to Mun.  Besides, you have to maintain at least marginal plausibility.

If someone actually manages to go to the Mun with this contraption, without timewarp, he will be a damn hero. We need a leaderboard for "who waits the longest".

If this still works in 1.0.5, I'm willing to go to the Mun in RO, waiting 7 real life days.

[Geschosskopf]

18 minutes ago, 073198681 said:

If someone actually manages to go to the Mun with this contraption, without timewarp, he will be a damn hero. We need a leaderboard for "who waits the longest".

If this still works in 1.0.5, I'm willing to go to the Mun in RO, waiting 7 real life days.

As I said, the rules specifically prohibit this.  If you wnat to do it. go do it on your own time.  Now if you don't mind, I'll be reporting you to the mods.

[Vanamonde]

Please stay on-topic, folks, even in challenge threads. Space flight is not part of this challenge, and therefore off-topic. 

[Geschosskopf]

What, no takers?  This challenge is not a trivial feat.  It requires some careful design, some unusual and tricky piloting skills, and a bit of time to accomplish even with a design that works.  But OTOH, it's not incredibly difficult, either, it's a lot of fun, and you end up with a useful litlte aircraft that might come in handy someday.

[Tw1]

On 04/01/2016 at 1:18 PM, 073198681 said:

If someone actually manages to go to the Mun with this contraption, without timewarp, he will be a damn hero. 

You can timewarp with a Ladderforce ship if you set things up right. My designs tend to include a chair, but there's also the @Andrew Hansen method of just warping carefully, and trying to not have your Kerbal drift away. 

Interplanetary flight by ladder was possible several versions ago but the furthest out I ever went was Duna.  @Tw1 went to Eve.  These days with atmospheric heating, I doubt you could get going fast enough to escape Kerbin's atmosphere, let alone go elsewhere.  And even if you could, you're extremely unlikely to survive reentry upon return.

It is still possible but reentry survival takes some careful speed management. I tested it not so long ago. 

BTW, I landed and took off from Eve, but my trip there was by conventional rocket. I did do a trip to Jool  that way though, but never published photos. 

Edited January 12, 2016 by Tw1

[Geschosskopf]

Good to see you here, @Tw1.  This challenge should be right up your alley

 

[Chemp]

I didn't even know that this was even possible. Of course I had to try it out and who knew - success!

After shamelessly copying creatively adapting Geschosskopf's design, I came up with a minimalistic approach dubbed the Flying Board:

 

Dotty refused to mount the ladder with her head pointing forward. Too bad for her, she had to pedal backwards for the whole flight

I wonder if it's possible to use multiple Kerbals at once to propell the craft.

[Geschosskopf]

On ‎1‎/‎12‎/‎2016 at 5:03 PM, Chemp said:

I didn't even know that this was even possible. Of course I had to try it out and who knew - success!

After shamelessly copying creatively adapting Geschosskopf's design, I came up with a minimalistic approach dubbed the Flying Board:

....

Dotty refused to mount the ladder with her head pointing forward. Too bad for her, she had to pedal backwards for the whole flight

I wonder if it's possible to use multiple Kerbals at once to propell the craft.

Congratulations!  Especially for having to pedal backwards.  Wear the crappy, hand-made patch for this challenge with pride   Thanks for playing.  I hope you feel inspired to improve the design or take a more ambitious flight in the future.

So, scoring.....  Please correct me if I'm wrong here but as I see it:

1.  Distance:  per Rule #9, a "more-or-less direct" flight to Airbase Island is considered to be 30km.  It looks like that's what you did so I'm thinking I'll have to go with that.  To get more distance, you need to take a rather indirect route, such as circling KSC and/or the island, or making long detours off the general line between them.

2.  Altitude:  830m (826 shown on the F3 info rounded to nearest 10).

3.  Max level/climbing speed.  Unknown.  All your pictures showing the speed had the nose pointing down.

As to getting multiple Kerbals involved, there used to be a mod called EVA Followers but AFAIK it hasn't been updated for a long, long time.  If somebody has a version that works in 1.0.5, it's OK to use it, provided you make it available to everybody else.

 

[Chemp]

16 minutes ago, Geschosskopf said:

3.  Max level/climbing speed.  Unknown.  All your pictures showing the speed had the nose pointing down.

Oh, sorry I forgot to log this. And honestly, I can't remember how much it was, but it wasn't faster than you IIRC.

I picked up the challenge because it piqued my curiosity, the concept of propulsion is really fun. Another thing probe cores will never be able to do

I might just do a circumnavigtion if I find some time to spare.

[Geschosskopf]

35 minutes ago, Chemp said:

Oh, sorry I forgot to log this. And honestly, I can't remember how much it was, but it wasn't faster than you IIRC.

I picked up the challenge because it piqued my curiosity, the concept of propulsion is really fun. Another thing probe cores will never be able to do

I might just do a circumnavigtion if I find some time to spare.

The ladder-engine is pretty neat.  I've used it for rovers and boats, too.  I once had the ambition of making a multi-rower galley and circumnavigating at least KSC's continent with it, but that's when EVA Followers died.  Besides, it would have taken forever.  The biggest drawback to the ladder-engine is that you can't use physical warp.  This seems to reduce the frequency of the Kerbal head-butting whatever is at the end of the ladder, so actual forward speed drops in proportion to the warp level and you gain nothing.  Thus, when I took a boat to the island, it was all real time at about 25m/s.

If you make a rover this way, it's a good idea to use airplane wheels.  It's very easy to get fast enough to blow the tires of regular rover wheels.  This was a major problem prior to 1.0.5 because there was no navball on EVA so you had no idea how fast you were going.  But maybe these days you can get by with rover wheels thanks to the navball, at least if you pay attention.

I'm still trying to make a helicopter or autogyro but can't make a stock bearing that works.

[Speeding Mullet]

Haha great!  The guys at Mullet Dyne's KSC hadn't done anything like this before, but Kirrie Kerman had been training hard for this mission, and didn't want to disappoint.  Let's check in for the reply, and a talk through with venerable interviewer Paxman Kerman:

Key Stats:

Distance: 30km
Altitude: 1640m
Level Speed: 45.7m/s
Kerbals carried: 1

 

Nice little challenge thanks!!

SM

[Geschosskopf]

8 hours ago, Speeding Mullet said:

Key Stats:

Distance: 30km
Altitude: 1640m
Level Speed: 45.7m/s
Kerbals carried: 1

Nice little challenge thanks!!

Congratulations!  Wear the patch with pride

That's a nice-looking plane, and it obviously has good flying qualities.  I mean, you were able to glide around and land despite the CoM being well aft of nominal thanks to Kirrie hanging on for dear life .  Very impressive!

Distance, hmmm.  I agree, the F3 thing is whacked, but you did make an extra circle around Airbase Island so we'll give you 31km.

And thanks to you and Chemp, we now have enough to open the "style points" category.  I won't try to rank that myself, just list these extra accomplishments.  Participants can judge the degee of difficulty for themselves, maybe come to a consensus.

Thanks for participating and feel free to make more attempts.

[Chemp]

I menaced I'd do it and now it's on. I've started a circumnaviagion attempt in this thread

I've finished the first let and according to the rules we can't touch down to pause, so this is my entry to the challenge. I admit, you've got me hooked Geschosskopf!

Now, I've forgot to take an F3 screenshot, so I have to go by the others I took inflight.

Distance : not exactly sure, I travelled about 80º, that's a bit less than 1/4 around, so let's say 800 km.

Altitude: 28 147m

Top speed: 311m/s, slightly climbing

Tomorrow, I'll get on with the next leg, let's see if I have the patience

On an unrelated note: how do I mention users correctly? As in @Geschosskopf, but like this:

On 3/1/2016 at 3:00 PM, Geschosskopf said:

[...]  @Tw1 went to Eve. [...]

 

[Geschosskopf]

7 hours ago, Chemp said:

I menaced I'd do it and now it's on. I've started a circumnaviagion attempt in this thread

I've finished the first let and according to the rules we can't touch down to pause, so this is my entry to the challenge. I admit, you've got me hooked Geschosskopf!

Well, sadly, Rule #8 says flights must end at Airbase Island so this doesn't meet the requirements of the challenge.  However, your amazing achievements in distance, altitude, and speed shine as beacons to all who aspire to the glory of Kerbal-powered flight.  I'm eagerly awaiting your return to KSC to complete the circumnaviagation, and I suggest you put in your achievement in the challenges about flying around Kerbin.

So, to make any of this qualify for this challenge, leave that 1st flag you planted in place and continue your epic circumnavigation.  Then come back later and repeat that 1st leg with a different plane, buzz the flag, then go back and land at Airbase Island.  If you target the flag before you take off, you should get the distance from KSC to it.  Round trip would be 2x that -30km, plus whatever altitude and speed records you set in between.

[Chemp]

20 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

Well, sadly, Rule #8 says flights must end at Airbase Island so this doesn't meet the requirements of the challenge.

Darn, I totally forgot this one, but of course you're right. Unfortunately, I've already taken the flag down because I thought I'd have to do more landings. Turns out I had a bit too much of time on my hands and finished the circumnavigation. Oh, well... Anyway, I'll post the rest of the flight tomorrow.

I don't think it would qualify for another challenge, since I landed. I could always ask though.

[Geschosskopf]

Well, you certainly get honorable mention for circumnavigating Kerbin by pedal power :).  Congrats and WTG!