Pale Red *Dots* ESO | Proxima b confirmed UPDATE 2017 PaleRedDots!!

[Spaceception]

4 minutes ago, Matuchkin said:

Well, the planets around Proxima and Centauri A don't quite matter, because the stars are in the same system...

Why don't they matter? Also, Proxima Centauri (Alpha Cen C) has a small chance of it just passing through the system, it may not even part of it, Plus, Alpha Cen A/B are at an average distance of the Sun to Saturn, they're pretty close to each other, so any Earth-like planets that form would have pretty weird nights.

So If there are any planets around Proxima, (Which is 0.2 ly away from A/B), they' would probably be better.

Edited January 25, 2016 by Spaceception

[Spaceception]

7 spectra taken, 52 more to go:)

[Spaceception]

10 spectra taken, 50 more to go

[Majorjim!]

On 01/16/2016 at 5:01 PM, Spaceception said:

What do you guys think the implications would be if we found a habitable exoplanet around Proxima?

Planning for a mission to this planet would begin immediately.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Majorjim
planning for

[fredinno]

3 hours ago, Majorjim said:

Planning for a mission to this planet would begin immediately.

And the actual mission would be launched in 200 years.

[Majorjim!]

Just now, fredinno said:

And the actual mission would be launched in 200 years.

Oh yes! Our entire focus would be on that world. It would be the motivation for new propulsion or human stasis technology. Probes would not be sent for a long time though. Any sent today would simply be overtaken by any future probes and their speedier technology and presumably the future human travelers too. New telescopes would be built to better understand the system it is in and its composition. Man it would be awesome.

[Spaceception]

I sent PaleRedDot a message via Facebook, and they said there might have a signal

Here's some proof )I got a bit excited)

• Conversation started Tuesday
• 

  3/22, 2:56pm

   

  David King

  Any decent evidence of planets yet?

   

   
• 

  3/22, 5:53pm

   

  Pale Red Dot

  there may be a signal, unfortunately we can't say for definite yet. But keep an eye out for future updates and articles!

   

   
• 

  3/22, 6:19pm

   

  David King

  Gasps OMG OMG I can't wait to see the results!! \

   

   

 

[PB666]

Im pegging the hype train on this one, the videos say they will be sharing the data and we would see the discovery process, instead they feed examples and conceal the actual data.

Putting it out now would cause publication issues, but you know that when you create a website to publish information directly you have already obviated the peer review process, for the public it then become the bachelorette or some other Fox TV program.

[Matuchkin]

I'm quite sure that any planet in the Alpha Centauri A/B system will be subject to a lot of heat when it goes between the two stars, so we're really looking for Proxima Centauri planets.

[Spaceception]

Just now, Matuchkin said:

I'm quite sure that any planet in the Alpha Centauri A/B system will be subject to a lot of heat when it goes between the two stars, so we're really looking for Proxima Centauri planets.

Alpha Centauri gets as close to the distance from the Sun to Saturn, so probably not, but the night would likely be much brighter than usual.

[Andem]

Planets? Definitely. Earth like? I dunno. Mathematically one could be habitable, but it would be smaller, any life forms would be larger and live in small groups. Basically, put Laythe where Kerbin is and have Dres be it's moon and you have the likeliest habitable exoplanet we'll find.

[PB666]

6 minutes ago, Andem said:

Planets? Definitely. Earth like? I dunno. Mathematically one could be habitable, but it would be smaller, any life forms would be larger and live in small groups. Basically, put Laythe where Kerbin is and have Dres be it's moon and you have the likeliest habitable exoplanet we'll find.

proxima is not a stable red dwarf, it goes through periods of intense ion production.

Quote

Wikipedia- Convection is associated with the generation and persistence of a magnetic field. The magnetic energy from this field is released at the surface through stellar flares that briefly increase the overall luminosity of the star. These flares can grow as large as the star and reach temperatures measured as high as 27 million K^[40]—hot enough to radiate X-rays.^[49] Indeed, Proxima Centauri's quiescent X-ray luminosity, approximately (4–16) × 10²⁶ erg/s ((4–16) × 10¹⁹ W), is roughly equal to that of the much larger Sun. The peak X-ray luminosity of the largest flares can reach 10²⁸ erg/s (10²¹ W.)^[40]

 

[Andem]

49 minutes ago, PB666 said:

proxima is not a stable red dwarf, it goes through periods of intense ion production.

 

All I'm saying is that people shouldn't expect an earthalike planet in the habitable zone for humans. Now say it had an incredible magnetic field life could very well exist, although probably not intelligent life.

[Findthepin1]

So a very Earthlike world by geology and atmosphere, around Proxima, still might not have life. It would be interesting to see a habitable world without life. It could all be killed by radiation from Proxima, which is a flare star. I bet a habitable-zone planet there would look a lot like Laythe.

Edited March 25, 2016 by Findthepin1

[Basto]

3 hours ago, Spaceception said:

Alpha Centauri gets as close to the distance from the Sun to Saturn, so probably not, but the night would likely be much brighter than usual.

I think the bigger issue would be gravitational in nature. Imagine what would happen to the orbit of a planet passing between the two stars. 

[Findthepin1]

7 minutes ago, Basto said:

I think the bigger issue would be gravitational in nature. Imagine what would happen to the orbit of a planet passing between the two stars. 

If you are referring to the two Alpha stars, seconded. If referring to Alpha and Proxima, however, the effect would be nearly zero. Proxima is like 0.2 LIGHTYEARS from Alpha. Planets around Proxima wouldn't be significantly affected by the *proximity* to Alpha, and vice versa. 

 

[fredinno]

3 hours ago, Andem said:

Planets? Definitely. Earth like? I dunno. Mathematically one could be habitable, but it would be smaller, any life forms would be larger and live in small groups. Basically, put Laythe where Kerbin is and have Dres be it's moon and you have the likeliest habitable exoplanet we'll find.

Why would life forms be larger? Wouldn't it be the opposite, so that life can reproduce rapidly after a solar storm?

3 hours ago, PB666 said:

proxima is not a stable red dwarf, it goes through periods of intense ion production.

It's 'stable' as it will exist for trillions of years, tho.

1 hour ago, Findthepin1 said:

So a very Earthlike world by geology and atmosphere, around Proxima, still might not have life. It would be interesting to see a habitable world without life. It could all be killed by radiation from Proxima, which is a flare star. I bet a habitable-zone planet there would look a lot like Laythe.

Hmm, Titan? And I doubt it would not have ANY life, bacteria and small plankton or soil organisms, and possibly more complex life need in the oceans (or life that burrows underground during flare bursts, if that's even possible) Is definitely possible. Any habitable planets are also almost certainly tidally locked due to the sheer amount of tidal forces at the tiny habitable zone. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proxima_Centauri#Characteristics

Would a flare star strip away an earth-like planet's atmosphere, or cause more UV radiation to hit through? Just a thought..

Which brings the question- what about infrared-absorbing plants? Would they be black? I know it's possible...

14 minutes ago, Findthepin1 said:

If you are referring to the two Alpha stars, seconded. If referring to Alpha and Proxima, however, the effect would be nearly zero. Proxima is like 0.2 LIGHTYEARS from Alpha. Planets around Proxima wouldn't be significantly affected by the *proximity* to Alpha, and vice versa. 

 

Even around the Alpha Centauri A+B, it might not matter as much as people would expect, as the stars still have quite some distance from each other- they never get closer than about Saturn's Orbit: http://www.space.com/18097-alpha-centauri-stars-planet-explained-infographic.html

so a habitable planet around either is possible (not to mention A is of similar size to the Sun, and B is smaller than the Sun.) However, outer plathnets will likely be slug out. That gives me an idea, what if we had an asteroid or planet that constantly switched its orbits from Alpha Centauri A and B? I would think it would be unstable, and eventually leave the system entirely, or be captured into a permanent orbit around on or the other, but it's interesting to imagine such a thing.

Honestly, Alpha A and B are just as good places to look for life- probably better since planets will not have to deal with the complications of a red dwarf.

[PB666]

4 hours ago, Spaceception said:

Alpha Centauri gets as close to the distance from the Sun to Saturn, so probably not, but the night would likely be much brighter than usual.

If alpha centauri gets that close then only a large rocky planet very close (basically skimming its corona) to proxima could survive. If alpha came that close with the planet was in between the two stars it would be pulled into a highly elliptical orbit, several occurances and it would be thrown from the entire system, which may explain why there are no detected planets.

 

[Spaceception]

Just now, PB666 said:

If alpha centauri gets that close then only a large rocky planet very close (basically skimming its corona) to proxima could survive. If alpha came that close with the planet was in between the two stars it would be pulled into a highly elliptical orbit, several occurances and it would be thrown from the entire system, which may explain why there are no detected planets.

 

Actually, 2 planets were detected around Alpha Cen b, 1 likely doesn't exist, but another one likely does, unfortunately, both are WAY to close to Alpha Cen b, and would be in the HZ if they orbited Proxima.

[Basto]

11 minutes ago, PB666 said:

If alpha centauri gets that close then only a large rocky planet very close (basically skimming its corona) to proxima could survive. If alpha came that close with the planet was in between the two stars it would be pulled into a highly elliptical orbit, several occurances and it would be thrown from the entire system, which may explain why there are no detected planets.

 

Depending on where the planet is in its orbit you would get either an accelerating or decelerating effect. Ultimately flinging the planet away from or into the parent sun. I find it hard to believe that a planet could have a stable orbit in this system. And yes I was referring to Alpha Centauri A/B. 

[PB666]

5 minutes ago, Spaceception said:

Actually, 2 planets were detected around Alpha Cen b, 1 likely doesn't exist, but another one likely does, unfortunately, both are WAY to close to Alpha Cen b, and would be in the HZ if they orbited Proxima.

If wishes were horse beggars would ride. HZ of p would be in the kill zone of b. Of course b can have a larger holding elliptical, its got stronger gravity, in the three body system it has a higher  SOI. Mercury orbit an M=1 star at 58 days, this planet orbits b (an M=0.8 star) at 20.4 days, this planets surface likely glows a decent red color. P does not come close to A at saturn-sun distances, its b that has a periapsis at saturn sun distances, P has an periapsis prolly beyond the epoapsis of b relative to a. Given this P can have small planets at great distances that would not be detectable in the experiments. 

[fredinno]

36 minutes ago, PB666 said:

If alpha centauri gets that close then only a large rocky planet very close (basically skimming its corona) to proxima could survive. If alpha came that close with the planet was in between the two stars it would be pulled into a highly elliptical orbit, several occurances and it would be thrown from the entire system, which may explain why there are no detected planets.

 

Wait, what? Alpha Centauri A and B are always over 9 AU from each other. You can't tell me a planet can't exist on both at 1 AU, or possibly 0.8AU, both of which would allow for habitable hot desert planets around Alpha Centauri A, and Earth-like planets around Alpha Centauri B. (both are of similar mass,

Also, Binary systems tend to stir up the protoplanetary disk and promote formation of planets. Also, the Binary Orbital separation of Alpha A and B are at the "Planetary system truncated" distance, and not "habitable zone unstable", which allows for habitable planets (though not outer planets)

 

[PB666]

14 minutes ago, fredinno said:

Wait, what? Alpha Centauri A and B are always over 9 AU from each other. You can't tell me a planet can't exist on both at 1 AU, or possibly 0.8AU, both of which would allow for habitable hot desert planets around Alpha Centauri A, and Earth-like planets around Alpha Centauri B. (both are of similar mass,

Also, Binary systems tend to stir up the protoplanetary disk and promote formation of planets. Also, the Binary Orbital separation of Alpha A and B are at the "Planetary system truncated" distance, and not "habitable zone unstable", which allows for habitable planets (though not outer planets)

 

That because B orbits A over thousands of years. here:

Quote

Wikipidia: With the orbital period of 79.91 years,^[17] the A and B components of this binary star can approach each other to 11.2 astronomical units, equivalent to 1.67 billion km or about the mean distance between the Sun and Saturn, or may recede as far as 35.6 AU (5.3 billion km—approximately the distance from the Sun to Pluto).^[17][54] This is a consequence of the binary's moderate orbital eccentricity e = 0.5179.^[17]  17- Hartkopf, W.; Mason, D. M. (2008). "Sixth Catalog of Orbits of Visual Binaries". U.S. Naval Observatory.

 

Taa-dah, but, it doesnt take a phd to read wiki [cough] Bb is to close to B to sustain life, and around proxima it might, given that on followup post I stated that P did not periapsis to A at 11.2 AU. Proxima has lower gravity, so its SOI is closer, but since it apparently orbits is either highly elliptical or hyperbolic. meh, it could have planets in the hz

[fredinno]

Just now, PB666 said:

Taa-dah, but, it doesnt take a phd to read wiki [cough] Bb is to close to B to sustain life, and around proxima it might, given that on followup post I stated that P did not periapsis to A at 11.2 AU. Proxima has lower gravity, so its SOI is closer, but since it apparently orbits is either highly elliptical or hyperbolic. meh, it could have planets in the hz

No, I was talking about possible habitable planets around the binary stars, which is definitely possible, which goes against what you said in previous posts that Alpha Centauri A and B cannot host habitable planets. They can. We don't know of any yet, but the Alpha Centauri A and B stars are bright enough to make detection more difficult.

[PB666]

34 minutes ago, fredinno said:

No, I was talking about possible habitable planets around the binary stars, which is definitely possible, which goes against what you said in previous posts that Alpha Centauri A and B cannot host habitable planets. They can. We don't know of any yet, but the Alpha Centauri A and B stars are bright enough to make detection more difficult.

Quite impossible its the n-body problem in spades. A planet would have to orbit between AB and P to be in a stable orbit. IOW it would have to be so far from B at B's apoapsis and planets periapsis that perturbations by B were trivial. Run an N-body dynamic for any orbit that does not fry life around A and B and follow it for say 1000 B orbits. Bs mass is about 80% of A so any planet X would not want an orbit where at perialpha  is 11.2 AU/2. That orbit immediately throws X into a death or exit orbit. So luminosity of A is 1.5 Sol which means X has to be 1.5AU from alpha. 

This places X in a orbit between 1.5 and 5.5 AU, but the problem is that for many passes of B as B approaches peri, X is eventually lifted up into a eccentric orbit until B recedes, moreover if Bs plane and Xs inclination are not spot on B will send X into a wildly eccentric orbit. As B passes in its 70 year orbit it will spend about 15 years at a proximity to A that it can seriously affecting the orbit of X

Lets take an example suppose B is currently close to minimum of A say 15' from the minimum theta in its orbit, its about 14 AU away, X is traveling around A at 1.5 AU and is now traveling directly toward B in its orbit this means its got about 3 months till it achieves the minimum distance from B. So the pull of A is its M (1.1x *k /(1.5)^2) the pull of B is (0.9 * k /  (14) ^2). Lets say the stars gravity is 0.002 at that point. Looks bad but watch out, X now begins to acceleration toward B at 10-5 N/Kg. Not bad until you consider there are 100,000 secs in a day and you have 90 days, worse that the distance between B and X is going to close down. The orbital response of X is to travel outward and slow down, but Bs pull will not subside because A has to make several passes, its not until B is moving away from A that the process reverses somewhat, but by that time all niche selection on X is gone, habitats are gone, its evolution killed.