[1.2 - 1.4] Real Scale Boosters, 0.16 (2018-03-12)

[VenomousRequiem]

Something seems off about this...

 

But in all seriousness, I finally flew Atlas V into orbit! Low TWR won't stop me ever again! @Phineas Freak, your advice helped a lot!

[NecroBones]

1 minute ago, VenomousRequiem said:

Something seems off about this...

 

Hah, you should be able to get at least two or three shuttles into orbit that way.

 

 

[NecroBones]

1 hour ago, NecroBones said:

 

As I keep thinking about this, I'm tempted to give it a try (the ModuleAnchoredDecoupler + some small thrust). I already went to the trouble of making the anchor a separate mesh object so that it can be used as an anchor, and so it'll always bother me to not have it separating in the right place. I'd probably rather cheat with some thrust.

I still need to get the upper stage engine put together, but otherwise I'm getting close to having the Ariane V ready for playtesting.

 

Worked beautifully:

 

[Joco223]

@NecroBones Man, i always thout making mods and modeling was easy. MAN, was i wrong. Tried to make some simple batteries and making textures for stuff is something im worst at. I spent 2 hours for a simple battery that in the end looked like a 2 year's-old toy. And you just pump out so awesome models and textures that just look so awesome. Huge respect for you man! Also, how do you make those textures for your mods?

[NecroBones]

45 minutes ago, Joco223 said:

@NecroBones Man, i always thout making mods and modeling was easy. MAN, was i wrong. Tried to make some simple batteries and making textures for stuff is something im worst at. I spent 2 hours for a simple battery that in the end looked like a 2 year's-old toy. And you just pump out so awesome models and textures that just look so awesome. Huge respect for you man! Also, how do you make those textures for your mods?

 

Yeah, it just takes practice. I've been modeling quite a lot for KSP for about a year and a half now. For the textures, I just do a lot of gradients and noise effects in Photoshop. It's amazing how far you can get with just simple effects and gradients.

 

 

[NecroBones]

 

Alrighty, I'm pushing out 0.5 to let people toy with the new things a bit. KerbalStuff is misbehaving right now, so I may need to upload it there later. But the necrobones.com link works in any case.

 

http://ksp.necrobones.com/files/RealScaleBoosters/RealScaleBoosters-0.5.zip

 

0.5 (2016-02-13) - Alpha Dev.
 - Split out another model component from the Delta IV DCSSs for the thruster platform.
 - Split out models for Atlas Centaur, similar to Delta DCSS, to permit scaling the tank separately from the helium/hydrazine spheres.
 - Moved the DIRECT rocket parts to the experimental (or "massive" in SpaceY) rocketry tech node.
 - Reduced Centaur dry mass to account for adapter mass.
 - Increased Centaur monopropellant to 154 kg (to match reality).
 - Added the STS ET and DIRECT adapters to the TweakScale config.
 - Added Ariane V parts, core stage, second stage, interstage, SRB, Vulcain 2, HM-7B engine, fairings, decouplers, etc.
 - Added Ariane V sample rocket (with dummy payloads).
 - Added VAB transparency to clamshell fairings (when mousing over the bottom end).
 - Fixed VAB transparency on Interstage decouplers.
 - Added some missing TweakScale settings.
 - Added a custom VAB menu tab/category.
 - Added subcategories for FilterExtensions for Ariane and STS/DIRECT (custom icons still needed, and FE support still work in progress).

 

[Joco223]

@NecroBones Could you add support for that mod (forgot what it is called) that makes SRB behave like in real world?

[NecroBones]

2 minutes ago, Joco223 said:

@NecroBones Could you add support for that mod (forgot what it is called) that makes SRB behave like in real world?

I don't know which mod does that.

 

[Joco223]

I found the mod. I'ts the SRB variable thrust limiter. I actually think it doesn't need any special support to work with your mod, and will work out-of-the-box?

[Felbourn]

5 hours ago, NecroBones said:

I don't know which mod does that.

It's Real Fuels and I can create that for you. I do it ALL the time. It takes 2 minutes. I make custom thrust curves for every SRB in my RSS games (well, actually, Stock too). I customize them for each mission based on my needs. I add new curves to my list of options via ModuleEngineConfigs.

Are we talking about the new Ariane SRBs?

[Pappystein]

Rescale Report:   Rocketdyne F-1B.

Scale Factor used:   scale = 0.66, 0.66, 0.8  

This scale factor gave me an almost identical size difference between the re-scalled F-1B engine and the FASA F-1 engine (using the below image to verify scale.)   I consider FASA to be the baseline of Kerbal scale at this size and above.    On the below image, the Turbopump Exhaust INLET is the same size.  Thus the F-1B bell is physically smaller than the F-1 or F-1A engines of history.  Please note the SLS launch platform with two Twin Engined Pyrios boosters in the background

 

Below is a simple Chart of Mass, Thrust, ISP of the FASA F-1 engine.  My altered F-1 and F-1A Cfgs using the FASA model and basic CFG, and my Rescale F-1B from this mod.

Engine Name          Source of CFG/Model              Engine Thrust          Engine Mass         Engine ISP (SL)            Engine ISP (VAC)

F-1                                FASA                                       1550                        8.75                         280                              320

F-1                          FASA CFG mod by me                   1550                       6.5                           280                               320

F-1A                        FASA CFG mod by me                   1780                      6.75*                        263                              290

F-1B                          RSB CFG mod by me                   1840                       5.4                           270                              308

F-1B Full Thrust**         RSB CFG mod by me                  2000                      5.5                           260                               300

 

* I have found no reliable source for weight/mass of the F-1A engine in FLIGHT condition.   Mass is estimated.

**  F-1B Full thrust is my name for the proposed uprated F-1B for later production (allowing a further 20 tons of lift into Low Earth Orbit on SLS.  No Official name exists for this engine that I have found.

Lightly Related:  It should be noted that the bottom of the Pyrios booster already SORT-OF exsists in KSP as a 2.5m part (it should be a 3.75m/Size 3 part at Kerbal Scale)  

 

 

Edited February 15, 2016 by Pappystein
Error correction

[Pappystein]

20 hours ago, Pappystein said:

Rescale Report:   Rocketdyne F-1B.

F-1                          FASA CFG mod by me                   1550                       6.5                           280                               320

Just a heads up, you would use these same stats for the RSB F-1 engine after a rescale.  I am still trying to fiddle with the scales to match the Kerbin scale rockets.   It took several attempts to get the scale for the F-1B "nice"   The Stock F-1 is taking even longer.  

 

For anyone who thought making a Mod is easy (or heck just editing CFG files!)  Proof in the Times listed above.   Thank your Mod Creators!  I know I do!

[Felbourn]

I created a CFG for RealFuels with thrust curves that match the real Ariane SRBs. I had to change the fuel units because RF uses liters of HTPB which is 1.78 kg/L compared to Stock solid fuel that's 7.5 kg/L. I also had to choose a set of thrust and Isp stats to use from among the three choices that I guess a real Ariane has gone through. The one set by default, without my CFG, is close to a mix between the latest and the second-to-latest true SRB versions. The default thrust is 7000 kN which is closest to the MPS 241 that has 7080 thrust. The default Isp is 250.0 to 274.5 which is closest to the MPS 238 that has 250.4 to 275.4 Isp. Also note that if you want the MPS 238 then you need to lower the solid fuel liters by hand to 133511 liters, or for the MPS 236 then 132275 liters, because RealFuels can't change the units of fuel via ModuleEngineConfigs (as far as I know). The default fuel units is for the MPS 241 only, which is also the default config.

@PART[RSBengineArianeVSRB]:NEEDS[RealFuels]
{
	@RESOURCE[SolidFuel]
	{
		@amount = 134904
		@maxAmount = 134904
	}
	@MODULE[ModuleEnginesFX]
	{
		@name = ModuleEnginesRF	
	}
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleEngineConfigs
		type = ModuleEnginesRF
		configuration = MPS 241
		CONFIG
		{
			name = MPS 236
			minThrust = 6650 // stats before year 2000
			maxThrust = 6650
			atmosphereCurve
			{
				key = 0 273.7
				key = 1 248.7
			}
		}
		CONFIG
		{
			name = MPS 238
			minThrust = 6709 // stats from 2000-2003
			maxThrust = 6709
			atmosphereCurve
			{
				key = 0 275.4
				key = 1 250.4
			}
		}
		CONFIG
		{
			name = MPS 241
			minThrust = 7080 // stats after 2003
			maxThrust = 7080
			atmosphereCurve
			{
				key = 0 278.0
				key = 1 253.0
			}
		}
	}	
	@MODULE[ModuleEngineConfigs]
	{
		@CONFIG,*
		{
			curveResource = SolidFuel
			thrustCurveUseTime = True
			thrustCurve
			{
				key =   0 0.70
				key =   3 0.89
				key =  12 1.00
				key =  31 0.70
				key =  43 0.60
				key =  61 0.75
				key =  66 0.70
				key =  99 0.86
				key = 102 0.85
				key = 125 0.06
				key = 135 0.01
			}
		}
	}
}

 

[KerbonautInTraining]

Yeah, Ariane desperately needs thrust curves. It's pretty difficult to control while accelerating at 4 G's in the lower atmosphere.

[NecroBones]

I haven't had time to work on anything so far this week. It was good timing for me to get 0.5 out on Saturday, since a couple hours later, I got hit with a work emergency that entailed a conference call that lasted 23 hours. No joke.

 

Anyway, I have a good local work flow for most of what I do in the mods, but since the various compatibility patches are clearly going to be more of a group effort, I went ahead and set up a GitHub repo for the "Patches" folder. It contains all of the existing MM configs from the mod. But I also put in the "Realism" patch with the actual "cfg" filename, rather than "txt" as it is in the mod currently. Everything that is in that file can be considered a placeholder. We can add separate files, or work inside of that one, or whatever makes the most sense for adding compatibility for RO, RF, and so on. All of the rules are going to need to have sensible conditionals so that they only execute if the required mods are present, of course.

 

GitHub repo:  https://github.com/NecroBones/RealScaleBoosters-Patches

[Pappystein]

Ok I have already posted my suggested engine performance for Kerbalscale "Stockalike" for the Saturn F-1 Engines...   I however did transpose some scaling numbers.   

 

Actual Scaling numbers I am using:

F-1   Scales well compared to the much more memory intensive FASA F-1 engine

MODEL
    {
        model = RealScaleBoosters/Parts/Engines/RSBengineF1
        scale = 0.60, 0.78, 0.60
    }

 

F-1B  Also scales well with the FASA F-1 engine.  

MODEL
    {
        model = RealScaleBoosters/Parts/Engines/RSBengineF1B
        scale = 0.60, 0.70, 0.60
    }

 

Please note, Design differences between how Frizzank and NecroBones chose to make their respective mods is the main reason the Y axis is not just 0.60, 0.60, 0.60  on each of these engines.

 

My S-1C stage now uses less memory!  YAY!   On to J-2 engine family.

[Whirligig Girl]

Does the SMURFF support also keep SMURFF from over-buffing the Tank Mass Ratios?

[KerbonautInTraining]

21 minutes ago, GregroxMun said:

Does the SMURFF support also keep SMURFF from over-buffing the Tank Mass Ratios?

Yeah, you'd have to ask the creator but basically it does some super fancy stuff and figures out if it needs to be buffed or not. It won't touch anything in RSB

[Whirligig Girl]

Just now, KerbonautInTraining said:

Yeah, you'd have to ask the creator but basically it does some super fancy stuff and figures out if it needs to be buffed or not. It won't touch anything in RSB

Is it normal that A Saturn IB with only a full Kerbodyne tank has a delta v of 14 km/s?

[KerbonautInTraining]

39 minutes ago, GregroxMun said:

Is it normal that A Saturn IB with only a full Kerbodyne tank has a delta v of 14 km/s?

Did you make sure to disable fuel flow from the Kerbodyne? See how it changes when you re-enable it if you already disabled it.

[NecroBones]

3 hours ago, GregroxMun said:

Does the SMURFF support also keep SMURFF from over-buffing the Tank Mass Ratios?

 

3 hours ago, KerbonautInTraining said:

Yeah, you'd have to ask the creator but basically it does some super fancy stuff and figures out if it needs to be buffed or not. It won't touch anything in RSB

 

It should be fine. SMURFF tries not to overbuff,  but I recently also added a patch that adds the "SMURFFExclude = true" flag to all RSB parts.

[MainSailor]

Anyone else having this issue with RSB when TweakScale is also installed? I have it on both my main and my dev machines:

The primary part in a symmetry attach is correctly sized but any other one gets chibi-sized.

I've got RSB 0.5 and TweakScale 2.2.6 and MM 2.6.18.

[NecroBones]

2 hours ago, MainSailor said:

Anyone else having this issue with RSB when TweakScale is also installed? I have it on both my main and my dev machines:

The primary part in a symmetry attach is correctly sized but any other one gets chibi-sized.

I've got RSB 0.5 and TweakScale 2.2.6 and MM 2.6.18.

I've seen it do that, but haven't been able to figure out why it screws up some engines and not others. I couldn't find anything on my side that made any sort of pattern visible. This looks to me like a TweakScale bug.

 

 

[MainSailor]

I tried a hunch that I have run into in the past (removing rescaleFactor when the scale is already set to 1), which did not fix the issue, but a dynamic rebuild of the cfgs from within KSP (because I was too lazy to completely restart it) fixed the engines briefly, but also removed all TweakScale functionality, but parts rescaled by TS stayed scaled. I'm wondering if it's in the order that MM processes scripts.

[NecroBones]

20 minutes ago, MainSailor said:

I tried a hunch that I have run into in the past (removing rescaleFactor when the scale is already set to 1), which did not fix the issue, but a dynamic rebuild of the cfgs from within KSP (because I was too lazy to completely restart it) fixed the engines briefly, but also removed all TweakScale functionality, but parts rescaled by TS stayed scaled. I'm wondering if it's in the order that MM processes scripts.

 

Well, I think a lot of it is my fault now. Looking again at the way TS is working with RSB, I think leaving in the starting diameters with "Free" scaling is hosing everything up.

 

I have a test which looks clean now, just by doing one blanket update to set everything to "free" without a default scale. Wow, it was breaking pretty significantly before that change. I'm amazed anyone got any use out of it.

 

I'll post a patch ASAP.

 

Edited February 19, 2016 by NecroBones