[WIP] Coatl Aerospace ProbesPlus Dev Thread [Beta] 10/19/2020 (1.8-1.10)

[MaverickSawyer]

No, no pics. Was too busy going  at the tumble and bounce to take a screenshot.

Yes, stock sized solar system.

The insufficient deceleration was due to the control difficulties while performing the burn. I was up to 45* off axis at points in the burn, so the suicide burn was... aptly named.

I thought I had adjusted the placement of parts and engines to compensate for the changed CoM, but apparently not enough. Going to take a more in-depth look at that. (RCS Build Aid is a wonderful tool that should be stock, imo.)

I remember that the bounce was more sideways than up... so not very high.

 

EDIT: Hmm... According to RCSBA, average CoM offset causes a torque of only 0.001 kNm, and 0.008kNm at full fuel. Well within the reaction wheel capacity of the lander, even without engine gimbal. 

Must have been related to my having to shut the engines down manually via right click after a staging error...

Edited July 7, 2017 by MaverickSawyer

[MaverickSawyer]

Hmmm... Ongoing tumble issues while in powered deceleration. It steers a little off, then it starts hunting around trying to catch the off-axis attitude and overcorrects. I know this strategy works, as I've successfully used it before... Going to try and see if it's related to a particular part I'm using for the first time.

EDIT: Nope, no dice. Still hunting badly.

Hmmm... Wonder if this is related to Mechjeb...

Edited July 9, 2017 by MaverickSawyer

[akron]

8 hours ago, MaverickSawyer said:

Hmmm... Ongoing tumble issues while in powered deceleration. It steers a little off, then it starts hunting around trying to catch the off-axis attitude and overcorrects. I know this strategy works, as I've successfully used it before... Going to try and see if it's related to a particular part I'm using for the first time.

EDIT: Nope, no dice. Still hunting badly.

Hmmm... Wonder if this is related to Mechjeb...

Thank you for checking. Let me know if you figure it out

[MaverickSawyer]

6 hours ago, akron said:

Thank you for checking. Let me know if you figure it out

There's still a few other parts that are "new" to this mission... But the majority of the parts I've added to the lander are ones I've used in previous, similar missions, so the hunting while under power is probably related to them. I'll let you know what the culprit is, so others can avoid that combo in the future.

[Rodger]

I'm getting some exception spam in the log when using antennas with range upgrades applied (I think...), in KSP 1.3, which has broken my entire commet, probes on the launchpad don't even get control:

[EXC 19:06:54.518] ArgumentOutOfRangeException: Argument is out of range.
Parameter name: index
    System.Collections.Generic.List`1[System.String].get_Item (Int32 index)
    PartModule.ApplyUpgradeNode (System.Collections.Generic.List`1 appliedUps, .ConfigNode node, Boolean doLoad)
    ModuleDataTransmitter.CommPowerUnloaded (.ProtoPartModuleSnapshot mSnap)
    CommNet.CommNetVessel.UpdateComm ()
    CommNet.CommNetVessel.OnNetworkPreUpdate ()
    CommNet.CommNode.NetworkPreUpdate ()
    CommNet.Network.Net`4[_Net,_Data,_Link,_Path].PreUpdateNodes ()
    CommNet.Network.Net`4[_Net,_Data,_Link,_Path].Rebuild ()
    CommNet.CommNetwork.Rebuild ()
    CommNet.CommNetNetwork.Update ()

My only clue pointing to it maybe being Coatl is the antenna upgrade. However I'm not sure what actually triggered it, as it was working one launch, then broken the next without buying any tech or upgrades etc...

Log:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/clq8hxlf7v14fh4/KSP.log.zip?dl=0

[akron]

2 hours ago, Rodger said:

I'm getting some exception spam in the log when using antennas with range upgrades applied (I think...), in KSP 1.3, which has broken my entire commet, probes on the launchpad don't even get control:

*snipception*

Weird. All I can say. I'll try and take a look this evening. Anyone else had this issue? Since this is the first I've heard of it, I would say this is a mod conflict and not and issue with the antenna upgrades because then everyone should be having the same problem.

[DStaal]

7 minutes ago, akron said:

Weird. All I can say. I'll try and take a look this evening. Anyone else had this issue? Since this is the first I've heard of it, I would say this is a mod conflict and not and issue with the antenna upgrades because then everyone should be having the same problem.

I hadn't tracked it down to a cause, but I was seeing *something* causing me to not be able to control ships even on the launchpad with nothing but stock antennas.

I just went in and disabled commnet...

[Rodger]

Yeah, I've just had to disable commnet.

Here's my game data, anything looks like it might have something to do with it?

Spoiler

Folders and files in GameData:
000_AT_Utils
000_Toolbar
000_USITools
AquilaEnterprises
B9PartSwitch
B9_Aerospace_ProceduralWings
BahaSP
BetterBurnTime
BetterTimeWarp
Bluedog_DB
BonVoyage
CTTP
Coatl Aerospace
CommunityCategoryKit
CommunityResourcePack
CommunityTechTree
ConfigurableContainers
ContractConfigurator
ContractPacks
CryoEngines
CryoTanks
CustomAsteroids
CustomBarnKit
DMagicOrbitalScience
DMagicScienceAnimate
DMagicUtilities
DefaultActionGroups
DeployableEngines
DistantObject
DropAManeuverNode
DynamicBatteryStorage
EVAEnhancementsContinued
EasyBoard
EasyVesselSwitch
EditorExtensionsRedux
EnvironmentalVisualEnhancements
Explainer
Firespitter
FlexoDocking
GroundConstruction
Hangar
HeatControl
HideEmptyTechTreeNodes
IndicatorLights
IndicatorLightsCommunityExtensions
InterstellarFuelSwitch
JX2Antenna
KAS
KIS
KPBStoMKS
KSP-AVC
KSPRescuePodFix
KSPWheel
KerbalAtomics
KerbalEngineer
KerbalFoundries
KerbalHacks
KerbalReusabilityExpansion
Kerbaltek
KerbetrotterLtd
KerboKatz
Kopernicus
MagicSmokeIndustries
MechJeb2
MiningExpansion
Mk1CargoBay
Mk2Expansion
Mk3Expansion
ModularFlightIntegrator
NSS
NavyFish
NearFutureConstruction
NearFutureElectrical
NearFutureLaunchVehicles
NearFutureProps
NearFuturePropulsion
NearFutureSolar
NearFutureSpacecraft
OPM
Olympic1ARPIcons
PartWizard
PersistentDynamicPodNames
PersistentRotation
PlanetaryBaseInc
PoodsOPMVO
PortraitStats
PreciseManeuver
ProceduralFairings
ProceduralParts
RCSBuildAid
REPOSoftTech
ReCoupler
RealChute
RealPlume
RealPlume-Stock
ReentryParticleEffect
RetractableLiftingSurface
Rodgertweeks
SCANsat
SHED
SVT
SelectableDataTransmitter
Sigma
SmokeScreen
Stock folder: Squad

StageRecovery
StationPartsExpansion
StockVisualEnhancements
Strategia
TacFuelBalancer
TakeCommand
TextureReplacerReplaced
Trajectories
TriggerTech
TweakScale
UmbraSpaceIndustries
VenStockRevamp
WaypointManager
[x] Science!
KSPModFileLocalizer.dll
ModuleManager.2.8.1.dll
ModuleManager.ConfigCache
ModuleManager.ConfigSHA
ModuleManager.Physics
ModuleManager.TechTree
planetwiki_opm.ksp
toolbar-settings.dat

 

 

[Pappystein]

21 hours ago, MaverickSawyer said:

There's still a few other parts that are "new" to this mission... But the majority of the parts I've added to the lander are ones I've used in previous, similar missions, so the hunting while under power is probably related to them. I'll let you know what the culprit is, so others can avoid that combo in the future.

I have had this problem before with single bell engines, including stock, in addition to on the Landvermisser .  It seems the Landvermisser  is more susceptible than others.  Possibly do to the odd shape/placement of the engines.    I WILL not use CKAN (because I don't want all the extra "artifacts" that CKAN leaves behind when you remove/update a mod)  So the ultimate solution in my case was time-consuming.

DELETE KSP and start over with a whole new install of the game! (obviously back up your save first!)    THIS has often times solved the above issue for me... BUT I will admit I have not tried the Landvermisser in 1.3 yet (Just re-downloaded the master file a few minutes ago.)

IF you use your STEAM install as your MOD install for KSP you can try to validate your files first.  

[Rodger]

2 hours ago, DStaal said:

I hadn't tracked it down to a cause, but I was seeing *something* causing me to not be able to control ships even on the launchpad with nothing but stock antennas.

I just went in and disabled commnet...

Well I just managed to fix it somehow, by editing the upgrade unlocks in my save file. If you search for:

SCENARIO
    {
        name = PartUpgradeManager

And then set "ca-upgrade-antenna1" to False, and load the save, probes worked again with commnet enabled, and continued to work after I bought the upgrade again.

So yeah. Weird. lol

[MaverickSawyer]

On 7/8/2017 at 6:11 PM, MaverickSawyer said:

Hmmm... Ongoing tumble issues while in powered deceleration. It steers a little off, then it starts hunting around trying to catch the off-axis attitude and overcorrects. I know this strategy works, as I've successfully used it before... Going to try and see if it's related to a particular part I'm using for the first time.

Well, locking out the gimbals fixed much of the instability under power. I suspect that the engine may have somehow wound up above the CoM plane, and that's throwing everything wonky. With the gimbals locked out, only a little pitch wobble occurred, and even that was at a manageable level.

Edited July 10, 2017 by MaverickSawyer

[ChickenBot448]

HI, i have a question about ProbesPlus. Even though this question is ask a lot on this forum, will ProbesPlus work with version 1.3, since Ksp version 1.3 does tend to crash with mods, especially ones from previous versions of Ksp

[Rodger]

I've been using it, works pretty well. only possibility I've found for problems is playing with commnet and buying the antenna upgrade.

BTW @akron after I fixed the commnet bug last time by undoing the antenna upgrade in my save file, I tried re-buying the upgrade, and it broke commnet again after playing for a bit without problems. It seems to happen when changing from the VAB to the space center scene, or just leaving an editor scene. Anyway after the 2nd time it broke, I reverted the antenna range upgrade again in my save, which fixed it again.

*Edit* also, I have OPM and JX2 antennas, which both have patches which mess with antenna strength. OPM boosts power, and JX2 reduces power if OPM is installed to counteract it (lol). For me, OPM's patch has always been disabled, but I only just disabled the JX2 patch (I was wondering why my antennas all had shorter range than normal). So I'll try the coatl antenna upgrade again now that I've disabled both the patches and see how it goes.

Edited July 12, 2017 by Rodger

[akron]

I really appreciate all of you guys testing and giving some feedback. This is one is a strange issue but we can keep digging. I am going to take a look through the configs again. It is possible that it is a game bug. As far as I know, stock parts do not use the upgrade mechanic so maybe they broke it in 1.3

[helaeon]

I've been noticing on craft with multiple antennas the game making what seem like silly choices about which antenna to use and determining signal based on a weak antenna that uses less power, rather than a stronger antenna or... the combined power of all antennas (like you'd think it would). Or it will use a far-away relay with a powerful antenna on the craft, rather than a near by relay. If you retract that more powerful antenna suddenly you have more signal. I'm leaning towards game bug.

[Rodger]

Well it happened again after disabling all the antenna power patches. Still can't pinpoint a trigger to reproduce though, just happens after playing for a while. But just avoiding that one upgrade seems to work for preventing it.

Also unrelatedly, I've been having problems with the surface exposure and landing site image experiments when using automated science sampler. The cam got into a state where it wouldn't even run after a scientist reset it manually on EVA... But I'm guessing this is mostly to do with automated science sampler and DMscianimategeneric. But would you consider enabling data collection from the surface exposure experiment? Is it meant to be a photo of the scraped surface, not a sample experiment?

[akron]

10 hours ago, Rodger said:

Well it happened again after disabling all the antenna power patches. Still can't pinpoint a trigger to reproduce though, just happens after playing for a while. But just avoiding that one upgrade seems to work for preventing it.

If this continues and I am unable to track it down, I may just disable the power upgrade in the next release.

Quote

Also unrelatedly, I've been having problems with the surface exposure and landing site image experiments when using automated science sampler. The cam got into a state where it wouldn't even run after a scientist reset it manually on EVA... But I'm guessing this is mostly to do with automated science sampler and DMscianimategeneric.

I have heard this bug happen before and it is, as you said, related to the way DM science animate does things. Auto science mods are written more towards the stock science module so they do weird things. I though the problem where it does reset with a scientist was fixed though.

Quote

But would you consider enabling data collection from the surface exposure experiment? Is it meant to be a photo of the scraped surface, not a sample experiment?

Correct, that experiment does no sample collection at all, though one could argue some regolith would surely stick to the manipulator. The way it works is that the arm disturbs the surface regolith to expose subsurface material. Then the survey cameras image the ground to capture physical properties. The purpose of Surveyor was to determine how to land men on the moon, so they wanted to learn about surface features to help determine how to plan the Apollo landing mission.

This is just a case where KSP has a video-game science system so there is no way to accurately portray the experiment more realistically. I am open to discussion but this is why this and the dust sampler cannot have specimens collected. For balancing reasons, you do not get full science return but you will eventually get another soil scoop with 100% data return. I don't have my notes right now, and I don't remember what mission it is based on.

 

[DStaal]

On the ScanSat parts - Your patch adds the scansat *scanning* but not the scansat *experiment*, making your parts strictly worse than the scansat parts as they can't collect science once the scan is done.  Is this intentional?

[akron]

11 minutes ago, DStaal said:

On the ScanSat parts - Your patch adds the scansat *scanning* but not the scansat *experiment*, making your parts strictly worse than the scansat parts as they can't collect science once the scan is done.  Is this intentional?

It is not. I don't remember if I ran into issues or anything. I can follow up

[Mihara]

I have also encountered the problem of CommNet breaking entirely upon getting a part upgrade for the antennas, every time I have loaded a vessel with an upgraded antenna.

Removing the upgrade blocks in part configs solved it for me.

Edited July 13, 2017 by Mihara
Ack. Sorry, the rich editor here is totally braindead.

[DStaal]

1 minute ago, akron said:

It is not. I don't remember if I ran into issues or anything. I can follow up

My guess was that it's just an oversight - it's a different module, so it's not 'default', and I wouldn't have thought about it either until I noticed that I couldn't collect the data from these parts.

[akron]

1 minute ago, DStaal said:

My guess was that it's just an oversight - it's a different module, so it's not 'default', and I wouldn't have thought about it either until I noticed that I couldn't collect the data from these parts.

Good chance. You guys are my quality control so, thank you.

@Mihara what do you mean?

[Mihara]

Just now, akron said:

 

@Mihara what do you mean?

I have been getting the same kind of log spam as listed above, which coincides with CommNet giving out entirely. It typically remains dormant for some time until I switch a vessel, whereupon CommNet abruptly is not working anymore -- all probes report they are disconnected and cannot be controlled -- and nothing will fix it short of quitting KSP entirely. This happened in the career mode, and it started happening after installing Community Tech Tree, but I'm not sure if these events are connected or not.

Removing UPGRADE blocks in antenna configurations fixed this problem. It sounds like a stock bug that this upgrade configuration triggers in certain circumstances, though the exact reproduction steps remain elusive.

[akron]

Far too many people have been having issues. I am not going to wait to get parts done, I'll get a patch out in a day or two to disable power upgrades along with the other little fixes

[Kerbal01]

The Landvermesser parts are causing a crash. using beta 0.15r in 1.3.

Edit: all the Probes Plus parts were causing the crash, removing them fixed it. Unfortunately Probes Plus is the basis for 90% of all of my space program, so this is save breaking. Update soon!

Edited July 14, 2017 by DarthVader