Catastrophic failure during docking procedures

[jlcarneiro]

Hi! I've already done quite a few dockings (around 30) until today. I've crashed some of them and lost some panels, but apart from that, I've never had a big accident.

Today I'm trying to dock a spaceplane (mk2 using the shielded clamp-O-tron) and although I'm docking at less than 0.1m/s the ship explodes when the docking ports atract each other. The log mentions a lot of structural damage but apart from that, I can't understand what I did wrong...

Can't put the ships here because of part mods but I'm using Docking Port Alignment Indicator and aligned everything correctly and approach the port at 0.1m/s.

Can you help me? Is that a bug? If so, can I overcome it by editing the sfs file? If not, what can I do? Just mourn my six-kerbal crew?

EDIT: Some needed files...

• savegame (just before the incident)
• ship's craft file
• space station's craft file
• some screenhots (just before the explosion, the ships is shown with its parts disconnected but I could not get this screenshot)
• my Gamedata directory listing: 000_Toolbar, ABCORS, AntennaRange, ASET, AsteroidDay, AviationLights, AxialAerospace, BetterBurnTime, BoulderCo, CameraFocusChanger, CargoBay+, Chatterer, ClankerTech, CoherentContracts, CollisionFX, ConnectedLivingSpace, ContractConfigurator, ContractPacks, ContractsWindow, Crowd Sourced Science, CustomBarnKit, Diazo, DistantObject, DMagicOrbitalScience, EditorExtensions, EnhancedNavBall, EnvironmentalVisualEnhancements, EVAManager.dll, EVA_OK, FieldExperience, Firespitter, FlagRotate, Fusebox, GPOSpeedFuelPump, HMV_simple_configs, HullCameraVDS, IFILS, JSI, KAS, KerbalConstructionTime, KerbalEngineer, KerbalScienceFoundation, KerboKatz, KIS, KronalUtils, LightsOut, MenuStabilizer.dll, MiniAirbrakes, Mk1CargoBay, ModuleManager.2.6.18.dll, NavyFish, NEBULA, Nereid, PersistentRotation, Pilot Assistant, PlanetShine, PortraitStats, PreciseManeuver, ProbeControlRoom, ProgressParser, RadiatorToggle, RCSBuildAid, RcsSounds, REPOSoftTech, SCANsat, ScienceAlert, ShipEffects, ShipManifest, SirDargon, StageRecovery, StationScience, StockBugFixPlus, StockClamshellFairings, Strategia, SurfaceLights, TakeCommand, TextureReplacer, ToadicusTools, Trajectories, TriggerTech, TSUtils, TweakableEverything, TweakScale, UniversalStorage, VerneTech, VesselView, WaterSounds, WaypointManager, WheelSounds, [x] Science!, z_thing

Sometimes the album doesn't get updated. If it happens, here is the direct link to it.

Edited February 14, 2016 by jlcarneiro
Added more strange pics to the album.

[Snark]

45 minutes ago, jlcarneiro said:

Today I'm trying to dock a spaceplane (mk2 using the shielded clamp-O-tron) and although I'm docking at less than 0.1m/s the ship explodes when the docking ports atract each other. The log mentions a lot of structural damage but apart from that, I can't understand what I did wrong...

Can't put the ships here because of part mods but I'm using Docking Port Alignment Indicator and aligned everything correctly and approach the port at 0.1m/s.

Can you help me? Is that a bug? If so, can I overcome it by editing the sfs file? If not, what can I do? Just mourn my six-kerbal crew?

Sure sounds like a bug to me!  The question is:  where's the bug?  KSP itself?  Or is it possible it's a mod you're using?  What mods are you running?

Are you doing anything odd with part clipping?  A screenshot might help.

If it does turn out to be a bug:  you should report it.  Especially helpful will be if you have a .sfs you could attach to the bug, so that it's easily reproducible.

[jlcarneiro]

24 minutes ago, Snark said:

Sure sounds like a bug to me!  The question is:  where's the bug?  KSP itself?  Or is it possible it's a mod you're using?  What mods are you running?

Are you doing anything odd with part clipping?  A screenshot might help.

If it does turn out to be a bug:  you should report it.  Especially helpful will be if you have a .sfs you could attach to the bug, so that it's easily reproducible.

Thanks! I'm on my cellphone now. I'll upload the sfs (a few seconds before the problem) and some screenshots.

About the vict- err... Heroes, I guess they are beyond help, right?

[Snark]

Ah, nice list of relevant info. 

So, first of all, you're not doing anything wrong, as far as I can tell.  0.1 m/s is nice and slow.  From the screenshot, looks like there's no significant part clipping anywhere near the docking port connection, so that shouldn't be it.  I'll assume you're not turning on timewarp as they drift into each other (that could cause an explosion, but I expect you would have mentioned it if you were doing that).

On the other hand... that's a pretty long list of mods.  Mods that only affect info display or add new parts ought to be fairly innocuous, but if you've got any in there that affect game physics, it could easily be a bug somewhere-- either in one of the mods, or in some unexpected interaction among the mods.

(My guess is that it's almost certainly some mod issue-- I've been playing KSP for a couple of years, have probably docked hundreds of times, and have not once ever had a problem like what you're describing.)

Unfortunately, this likely leaves you with no course to a solution.  If you were running a stock game (or, at least, a game with few/innocuous mods) so that you could reproduce it in stock, then it would clearly be a KSP bug, and you could log it, and Squad would likely find and fix it.  But with that many mods installed, I expect that all that would happen if you logged a bug would be that Squad would look at your mods list and just kinda throw up their hands.  They're totally busy just fixing bugs that they know are in their own stuff-- they certainly don't have the bandwidth to debug your installation for you, which is essentially what they'd have to do in this case.

Approaching the problem from the other direction-- have you installed any new mods recently?  (in particular, since the last time you successfully docked?)  Might help point the finger at the culprit.

About the only other thing I could think of would be, what exactly does the F3 log say after the disaster?

1 hour ago, jlcarneiro said:

About the vict- err... Heroes, I guess they are beyond help, right?

Well, you could revive them by editing the .sfs file (just make sure to keep a backup copy in case you munge something).  If you go to the Astronaut Complex, they show up on the "killed" tab, right?  Just go into the .sfs, find the deceased crew, and manually edit their status from "killed" (or whatever it says) to "available".  That will restore them to life and they'll be waiting there in KSC for a chance to board the next ship.  (I haven't actually done that myself, but I expect it ought to work.)

Edited February 13, 2016 by Snark

[Sir_Robert]

A good question is, does it happen again if you do the same thing again?

You have a save from just before, so did you try again? If so, did it explode again? Or was this a freak occurrence bug? If it's a one time only event, you can be quite sure it's a bug

[jlcarneiro]

1 hour ago, Sir_Robert said:

A good question is, does it happen again if you do the same thing again?

You have a save from just before, so did you try again? If so, did it explode again? Or was this a freak occurrence bug? If it's a one time only event, you can be quite sure it's a bug

I've renamed the quicksave to dock_kraken when I got the explosion exactly to be able to replay it, and unfortunately, EVERYTIME I retry it, KABOOM!

1 hour ago, Snark said:

Ah, nice list of relevant info. 

So, first of all, you're not doing anything wrong, as far as I can tell.  0.1 m/s is nice and slow.  From the screenshot, looks like there's no significant part clipping anywhere near the docking port connection, so that shouldn't be it.  I'll assume you're not turning on timewarp as they drift into each other (that could cause an explosion, but I expect you would have mentioned it if you were doing that).

On the other hand... that's a pretty long list of mods.  Mods that only affect info display or add new parts ought to be fairly innocuous, but if you've got any in there that affect game physics, it could easily be a bug somewhere-- either in one of the mods, or in some unexpected interaction among the mods.

(My guess is that it's almost certainly some mod issue-- I've been playing KSP for a couple of years, have probably docked hundreds of times, and have not once ever had a problem like what you're describing.)

Unfortunately, this likely leaves you with no course to a solution.  If you were running a stock game (or, at least, a game with few/innocuous mods) so that you could reproduce it in stock, then it would clearly be a KSP bug, and you could log it, and Squad would likely find and fix it.  But with that many mods installed, I expect that all that would happen if you logged a bug would be that Squad would look at your mods list and just kinda throw up their hands.  They're totally busy just fixing bugs that they know are in their own stuff-- they certainly don't have the bandwidth to debug your installation for you, which is essentially what they'd have to do in this case.

Approaching the problem from the other direction-- have you installed any new mods recently?  (in particular, since the last time you successfully docked?)  Might help point the finger at the culprit.

About the only other thing I could think of would be, what exactly does the F3 log say after the disaster?

Well, you could revive them by editing the .sfs file (just make sure to keep a backup copy in case you munge something).  If you go to the Astronaut Complex, they show up on the "killed" tab, right?  Just go into the .sfs, find the deceased crew, and manually edit their status from "killed" (or whatever it says) to "available".  That will restore them to life and they'll be waiting there in KSC for a chance to board the next ship.  (I haven't actually done that myself, but I expect it ought to work.)

Thanks! I'll try to get what F3 log says. About reviving, I'd rather not: I'd like to avoid their deaths (even by using quicksave and quickload, what I've already promised not to use a LOT of times), but I don't want to risk reviving them... I still remember Pet Sematary...

 

[Sir_Robert]

1 minute ago, jlcarneiro said:

I've renamed the quicksave to dock_kraken when I got the explosion exactly to be able to replay it, and unfortunately, EVERYTIME I retry it, KABOOM!

Thanks! I'll try to get what F3 log says. About reviving, I'd rather not: I'd like to avoid their deaths (even by using quicksave and quickload, what I've already promised not to use a LOT of times), but I don't want to risk reviving them... I still remember Pet Sematary...

 

So whatever it is (and it's probably a bug of some sort), it's a consistent problem with the ships. Probably something glitching through the docking ports?

[jlcarneiro]

I even thought so, but they are ordinary stock ports...

[Jakalth]

I've had this issue with docking completely stock craft in a stock install before.  For me it ended up being an issue with the stock ore containers.  For some reason, even though the ore container was not connected to the port, or to the part the port is connected to, docking with that port caused a chain reaction of rapid disassembly.  For me the Ore container was clipped into a fuel tank for aesthetic reasons.  Removing that ore tank and using one of the smaller radial attached tanks fixed the issue.

 

So it can sometimes be something small like that, that can set this off.  Ore Tanks are my nemesis when it comes to random explosions.  By chance do you have any tanks clipped into the craft anywhere?  Fuel, mono, ore, or otherwise?  It's the only thing I can come up with that is not mod related.

[jlcarneiro]

17 minutes ago, Jakalth said:

[...]

So it can sometimes be something small like that, that can set this off.  Ore Tanks are my nemesis when it comes to random explosions.  By chance do you have any tanks clipped into the craft anywhere?  Fuel, mono, ore, or otherwise?  It's the only thing I can come up with that is not mod related.

Thanks! Nope, no clipped parts...

To everyone else (starting with @Snark): I've added the F3 log messages to the album in the OP...

Edited February 13, 2016 by jlcarneiro

[Jakalth]

I do have something you can try.  Go to each of the craft and tell them both to "control from here" on the docking ports that you are connecting.  It might be something simple like this that will do as a work around.  Worth a shot.

[jlcarneiro]

19 minutes ago, Jakalth said:

I do have something you can try.  Go to each of the craft and tell them both to "control from here" on the docking ports that you are connecting.  It might be something simple like this that will do as a work around.  Worth a shot.

You're right: it is worth a shot. I'll send someone from the ship (EVA) to the station, since it doesn't have a probe core (silly me!) and willdo!

To everyone else: I tried to "dock" with the shields closed and nothing occurred, this let me think the problem involves the clamp-o-trons... Now I'm trying to accelerate in the opposite direction of the docking ports, I dunno, trying to reduce its magnetic attraction, maybe....

EDIT: Nope, unfortunately the result was the same... KABOOM! Tried twice, the first time, the ship did NOT explode, but was "slingshot" backwards, it kind of slipped away quite fast (about 8m/s) and I could not stop it. Tried again and KABOOM.

Also, somehow, I've managed to make both ports go THROUGH each other without docking. Tried to get apart and dock again but could not replicate...

Edited February 13, 2016 by jlcarneiro
test results...

[Vanamonde]

If you're docking that slowly, this sounds like a tech support issue rather than a gameplay question. And so, your thread has been moved. 

[Snark]

 

3 hours ago, jlcarneiro said:

About reviving, I'd rather not: I'd like to avoid their deaths (even by using quicksave and quickload, what I've already promised not to use a LOT of times), but I don't want to risk reviving them... I still remember Pet Sematary...

Oh, don't be silly.  What could possibly go wrong?

Spoiler

(from the New Kerbol mod)

 

Edited February 14, 2016 by Snark

[jlcarneiro]

8 minutes ago, Snark said:

Oh, don't be silly.  What could possibly go wrong?

[...]

BTW, nice pic!

[jlcarneiro]

6 hours ago, Snark said:

[...]

So, first of all, you're not doing anything wrong, as far as I can tell.  0.1 m/s is nice and slow.  From the screenshot, looks like there's no significant part clipping anywhere near the docking port connection, so that shouldn't be it.  I'll assume you're not turning on timewarp as they drift into each other (that could cause an explosion, but I expect you would have mentioned it if you were doing that).

[...]

@Snark, I've just remembered I've moved the Landing Gear up a bit (using the offset gizmo) and its parent is the Mk2 Clamp-O-Tron!

Do you think this would be enough to cause such a big (and strange) explosion?

[jlcarneiro]

After many tries, I've managed to make both Clamp-O-Trons touch each other and count as a docking (thus completing the contract) without exploding.

Unfortunately, the ship was caught on a normal (or antinormal, I don't know) acceleration. Then, I started to try to avoid that new "bug", quicksaving from time to time. When I quickloaded, I noticed the ship was now torn in two with both parts working as a whole. I think something strange with this design has triggered some strange bug.

I've added the new pictures to the album.

[Snark]

14 hours ago, jlcarneiro said:

@Snark, I've just remembered I've moved the Landing Gear up a bit (using the offset gizmo) and its parent is the Mk2 Clamp-O-Tron!

Do you think this would be enough to cause such a big (and strange) explosion?

I wouldn't think so, as long as the landing gear's attached to the underside.

It's quite a mystery.

[jlcarneiro]

1 hour ago, Snark said:

I wouldn't think so, as long as the landing gear's attached to the underside.

It's quite a mystery.

Yes, it's attached to the underside. Ah, there's also the retractable ladder, attached to the right side and moved forward with the offset gizmo.

At this point, I have no clue what caused this... I guess I'll have to loose these kerbonauts and change this design...

 

Well, at least now I have six new options to name missions...

Edited February 14, 2016 by jlcarneiro

[Snark]

43 minutes ago, jlcarneiro said:

At this point, I have no clue what caused this... I guess I'll have to loose these kerbonauts and change this design...

Well, you don't have to lose them, even if you don't want to raise them from the dead.  You have a quicksave from just before the docking.  Just give up on the docking and send 'em home.

Unless what you're saying is that it's not worth your time to take your SSTO and send it back home again?  Better to just scuttle it with all aboard?

Harsh, man.  But I guess they wouldn't have put you in charge of their space program if you weren't the kinda guy who can make the convenient tough decisions. 

Edited February 14, 2016 by Snark

[jlcarneiro]

4 minutes ago, Snark said:

Well, you don't have to lose them, even if you don't want to raise them from the dead.  You have a quicksave from just before the docking.  Just give up on the docking and send 'em home.

Unless what you're saying is that it's not worth your time to take your SSTO and send it back home again?  Better to just scuttle it with all aboard?

Harsh, man.  But I guess they wouldn't have put you in charge of their space program if you weren't the kinda guy who can make the convenient tough decisions. 

Well, thanks for your trust!

I have some good and some bad news. After I manage to touch both Clamp-O-Trons in a way that fuffilled the contract, I managed to deorbit it. The bad news is that I had to quickload and after the quickload it was in a very weird way: the cockpit was perpendicular to the rest of the ship!

See those pictures below:

Spoiler

 

 

P.S.: I still don't know what caused this...

[Snark]

1 minute ago, jlcarneiro said:

I have some good and some bad news. After I manage to touch both Clamp-O-Trons in a way that fuffilled the contract, I managed to deorbit it. The bad news is that I had to quickload and after the quickload it was in a very weird way: the cockpit was perpendicular to the rest of the ship!

See those pictures below:

lol, that's priceless!  Thanks for sharing those shots.

Okay, so clearly there's something very badly wrong with your ship, something's corrupted somewhere.  Without spending a lot of time doing forensics on the .craft file, however, no idea what it could be, and that would probably be more trouble than it's worth.

In any case, glad you were able to work it out!

[jlcarneiro]

Now, back to the drawing board, I'll recreate this design from scratch to avoid this strange corruption...

Thanks to you all!