Update 1.1 and Probe Telemetry

[Noname115]

After watching the recent KSP News episode by Rapid Viper, which can be viewed here: 

I couldn't help but feel extreme anger to know that SQUAD has decided to push probe telemetry back to a later update, possibly into 1.2.

Viper explains that the functionality of the telemetry is very buggy and just wouldn't be fun to play with. This is understandable, but I can't help but feel as if SQUAD could have just delayed the update a couple weeks or so. I would HAPPILY sit for 2-3 weeks if it meant that the features I've been waiting AGES for would be, in my opinion, in the most hyped update in a while. You may feel differently, and I do NOT intend on throwing any heat at SQUAD; I love Kerbal Space Program, it's one of, if not my most favorite game on Steam. I'm just a little (make that severely) disappointed. Probe telemetry was my most anticipated feature of 1.1, as I was dreaming of making my own version of the TDRS system (reference: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tracking_and_Data_Relay_Satellite_System ).

Now that I got that out of my system, I would like to hear your guy's opinions on the matter. Were you disappointed as I was, or largely unaffected by this delay? If you didn't, feel free to post your thoughts.

-Fly safe, Noname115

Edited February 15, 2016 by Noname115

[Speadge]

dont get the poll. is it about "should they delay 1.1 FOR the telemetry", or is it "should they put the feature in a later update instead of 1.1"?

[Choctofliatrio2.0]

I kinda wish it was incorporated, but I'd much prefer 64 bit and better performance first.

[Noname115]

2 minutes ago, Speadge said:

dont get the poll. is it about "should they delay 1.1 FOR the telemetry", or is it "should they put the feature in a later update instead of 1.1"?

Hmm, good point. I'll change the question.

3 minutes ago, Choctofliatrio2.0 said:

I kinda wish it was incorporated, but I'd much prefer 64 bit and better performance first.

A stable 64-bit version would more than likely have been my #2 for 1.1.

[Temeter]

There is already a antenna/satellite/dsn mod, why not just use it? More complex that what would've implemented in stock, but also deeper:

Personally I'm already waiting ages for 1.1, so I'm perfectly fine with them delaying antennas. Ram-limit, performance, physics, orbit mechanic precision and some fine rover mechanics are more important for me. Antenna are more of a hardcore thing, but I already have the wonderfull realistic progression for that!

Edit: Also kudos for making the thread this civil, even though the delay is visibly bothering you that much.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Temeter

[Darnok]

I would vote for 1.1.5 for probe telemetry

[Noname115]

1 minute ago, Temeter said:

There is already a antenna/satellite/dsn mod, why not just use it? More complex that what would've implemented in stock, but also deeper:

Personally I'm already waiting ages for 1.1, so I'm perfectly fine with them delaying antennas. Ram-limit, performance, physics, orbit mechanic precision and some fine rover mechanics are more important for me. Antenna are more of a hardcore thing, but I already have the wonderfull realistic progression for that!

Yes, RemoteTech is a good way to bring that feature in the game, but what made me disappointed is to have it stock in the game. I'd much rather have it inside the game than in a mod. This is just my opinion, of course.

[fchurca]

In the software industry, one of various philosophies is to "Deploy Early, Deploy Often". That lets the user enjoy the finished features as soon as possible. Instead of having to wait another month or so for telemetry, you can now make use of the features that are already done. You may happily wait 2-3 weeks or more for this one specific feature, but a great number of people, including me, are eager to make use of the improvements that already have been developed, tested, and proven, like multithreaded physics.

[Temeter]

3 minutes ago, Noname115 said:

Yes, RemoteTech is a good way to bring that feature in the game, but what made me disappointed is to have it stock in the game. I'd much rather have it inside the game than in a mod. This is just my opinion, of course.

I see where you're coming from. Same for me with aerodynacmics. FAR is great, but it's nice to have a simpler version in stock.

[Noname115]

5 minutes ago, fchurca said:

In the software industry, one of various philosophies is to "Deploy Early, Deploy Often". That lets the user enjoy the finished features as soon as possible. Instead of having to wait another month or so for telemetry, you can now make use of the features that are already done. You may happily wait 2-3 weeks or more for this one specific feature, but a great number of people, including me, are eager to make use of the improvements that already have been developed, tested, and proven, like multithreaded physics.

Well said. As for your argument, I can see the logic in releasing 1.1 with the features it has now instead of delaying it to polish one feature. Perhaps I was a little too caught up in being angry that I hadn't given it enough thought.

Edited February 15, 2016 by Noname115
Grammar edit

[pandaman]

It was the right decision to leave it out IMHO.   Yes it would be nice to have, but if it's not working as they want then it makes sense to get it right before releasing it. 

[yorshee]

I would rather wait a bit longer and get a more polished feature. KSP is past early access now so Squad can't throw in unfinished features into their updates anymore (like the old pre-1.0 aerodynamics for example). Plus we always have AntennaRange or RemoteTech for now.

[Blaf]

For me it was the most anticipated feature in 1.1, so im a bit sad it wont make it. I suppose devs had good reasons for postponing it though...

[mikegarrison]

Sorry, but I don't get it. You would rather they tried to rush a buggy/incomplete version of a mod you can already download right now?

One of the things I'm most looking forward to is increased memory and computational performance so that I can use the mods I want to use without the system crashing every half hour or so.

[Xeldrak]

Nope. I anticipated the feature aswell, but I trust Squad. If they think it's not ready for deploymet, it's not ready for deployment.

Who am I to tell them how to develop their game?

[Noname115]

4 minutes ago, Xeldrak said:

Nope. I anticipated the feature aswell, but I trust Squad. If they think it's not ready for deploymet, it's not ready for deployment.

Who am I to tell them how to develop their game?

If it appeared that I was calling SQUAD out and telling them how to run their game, I apologize. I had no intent on throwing dirt onto them. Like you, I trust them, I'm just voicing my own opinion on the matter.

[regex]

4 minutes ago, Noname115 said:

If it appeared that I was calling SQUAD out and telling them how to run their game, I apologize. I had no intent on throwing dirt onto them. Like you, I trust them, I'm just voicing my own opinion on the matter.

Next time you might want to avoid phrasing like this (emphasis mine) if you want to avoid people misconstruing your intentions:

Quote

I couldn't help but feel extreme anger to know that SQUAD has decided to push probe telemetry back to a later update, possibly into 1.2.

 

[Sir_Robert]

If you want that just use Remotetech. Or Antenna range if you want a less extreme version

[Xavven]

4 hours ago, Blaf said:

For me it was the most anticipated feature in 1.1, so im a bit sad it wont make it. I suppose devs had good reasons for postponing it though...

Same here.

The reality is that Squad does not release each feature as soon as it's finished. They have a full development and release cycle that includes QA, so it's more efficient to batch several new things at once. Therefore...

I'd rather all the other features in version 1.1 wait for probe telemetry to catch up, rather than have probe telemetry wait for the next set of features being released in 1.2

So you see, there's a possibility that this decision could lead to us having probe telemetry later than we would have otherwise. Since I care about probe telemetry more than any other new feature advertised, I voted Yes to this poll. I don't mean to sound entitled, though -- these are free improvements to my favorite game, after all.

[Fearless Son]

As someone who has worked in development, frankly sometimes you just need to decide when a feature is going to get put on the backburner.  Being able to say, "This is good enough for now, but this other isn't ready" is an important thing for product managers.  If a team were to push back releases until they had every feature they wanted, nothing would ever get done.  

In this case, I think Squad made the right call.  I mean, if 64-bit KSP is near enough completion that they feel like they can roll it out with 1.1, then it would be a disservice to hold back all of 1.1 because of one feature they could have punted to the next release.  Sure, it might have been a couple of weeks, but it might have been a lot longer.  When ironing out bugs, time-to-fix can be hard to predict (as is evidenced that they had to change their release commitment for this feature to begin with) and the release would come whenever.  

Also, this has an effect on internal processes.  I can only speculate how Squad does things, but most companies I have worked at work on a system where releases are big milestones that they internally structure their efforts towards, dividing the time until then up into smaller development sprints so they can load balance and adjust course as-needed while in flight.  Trying to shift one of those major scheduled milestones, especially when a release is close to launching, plays hell with the work routine and pace of development.  If a studio punts something to a later release, it is only because delaying the whole release to accommodate just that one thing was the more painful option.  

[nosirrbro]

I say that it is good, because I really want the proformance upgrades of 1.1, and remote tech probably won't take too long to update to 1.1

[Mischief]

Need 64 bit up and running. Everything else can be pushed back a bit into other updates. Not like it won't come but the lack of 64 bit update is holding up a lot of stuff. All the mods will need updated by and large and a lot of people are really just waiting to play KSP again until there's a viable 64 bit client for Windows with the new update.

1.1 is fundamentally about the Unity update. That's what needs to happen first and foremost. After that's done then more content patches are awesome. The Unity update though shouldn't be held back for a feature update.

[meuqsaco]

That can wait. We need 64 bit + better performance. The number of mods I plan to install in 1.1 will contain more content than what their stock game(great one) will have for the next 10 years...

[Merinsan]

Honestly, I don't want telemetry at all.

I'll be perfectly happy if 1.1 is the final version, with 64 bit and good performance.

[Streetwind]

13 hours ago, Noname115 said:

I couldn't help but feel extreme anger

You should consider counseling... Feeling that way about a free update to an entertainment product is not healthy or normal.

 

As for the topic: Yes, I was quite disappointed. I've been waiting for half a year, sitting on this grand plan for a 1.1 playthrough, which definitely included the concept of communication networks. Hearing that it won't be in kind of threw a wrench in the works. I mean... I could always install RemoteTech again... though I was really curious as to what Roverdude would come up with. But I guess it'll have to be that.

At the same time, it didn't come wholly unexpected either. "Feature Creep" is a real issue that happens to the best developers (and happens constantly, in fact). With 1.1 being an engine rework, adding any sort of feature is already Feature Creep, really. Heck, we might have 1.1 out already if there were zero added features. Or we might not, since sometimes features can be added for free while other people working on other parts simply need extra time. Who knows? All I know is, I was kind of scratching my head at the large amount of features announced for 1.1, and I'm neither surprised by the fact that it's still not done, nor by the fact that we got a feature cut out now.

I'll survive, but... it's just too bad it had to be this feature in particular.

Edited February 16, 2016 by Streetwind