[1.1.3] Large Boat Parts Pack

[Themorris]

@SGTSLADAK

Are you using the old version? I've experienced the same as you using the old version.

By the way. if anyone still has the problem, that his ships are being launched into the air when physics are loading, try using KerbalJointReinforcement. Also setting the BDA settings for range really high helped.

I'm fighting ship-ship battles over 20km with no problems.

 

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

17 hours ago, SGTSLADAK said:

HAS ANYONE ELSE HAD A PROBLEM WITH "BOATS SINKING WHEN PLACED IN THE WATER. TOTALLY EMPTY OF ALL FUEL AND BALLAST....EITHER FULLY LOADED OR TOTALLY EMPTY. EVEN JUST A EMPTY HULL...STRAIGHT DOWN TO DAVIE JONES LOCKER...HELP!!!!

Now that is very unusual particularly as the parts have massive amounts of natural buoyancy, normally the trouble is getting them to float at a sensible depth rather then styrofoam style sitting on the top, If your problems persist find a way to post a zipped log, a paste bin copy is no good, I need a proper log.

On 13/07/2016 at 3:22 PM, TMasterson5 said:

@Laythe2 I'm not sure if you're aware or not but your VLS cells have the missile attach nodes upside down. Also the small one is way too small to fit nearly and missle in it. 

Well yes and no,  they work perfectly for missiles that use a defined mounting transform placed in unity, but not when the usual free hand method is used. Next update I'll stick another set of nodes in to deal with both situations. And I know  the Vette vls it's tiny it was a proof of concept more than anything else, and will likely just become a cargo bay in later evolution's,

10 hours ago, Themorris said:

@SGTSLADAK

Are you using the old version? I've experienced the same as you using the old version.

By the way. if anyone still has the problem, that his ships are being launched into the air when physics are loading, try using KerbalJointReinforcement. Also setting the BDA settings for range really high helped.

I'm fighting ship-ship battles over 20km with no problems.

 

I've now carried out the same tests and can confirm the above, this is however very dependent on the system that KSP is installed on, it seems some systems can deal with the physics better than others, so it's a random and unpredictable. (as a side note this problem is rated as high urgent on the ksp bug tracker)

[TMasterson5]

@Laythe2/ @SpannerMonkey(smce)?

 

Would it be okay with you guys if I take some of the models of your hulls and bridges and give them a coast guard style texture? Specifically the simple bridge that youve always had, not the new ones, the corvette hull pieces, and small super structure parts.

Edited July 20, 2016 by TMasterson5

[Slam_Jones]

On 7/14/2016 at 11:44 PM, Themorris said:

@SGTSLADAK

Are you using the old version? I've experienced the same as you using the old version.

By the way. if anyone still has the problem, that his ships are being launched into the air when physics are loading, try using KerbalJointReinforcement. Also setting the BDA settings for range really high helped.

I'm fighting ship-ship battles over 20km with no problems.

 

Not sure if it's the same issue, but every time I get into physics range of one of my boats, it basically explodes... Like every part becomes unattached from the hull and kinda sinks or floats there under the surface.  Makes using any boat basically impossible unless I never switch away from it, which, in my case at least, totally defeats the purpose.

Also from what I can tell BDArmory hasn't been updated for a few months, so can't really take advantage of that either.

Any suggestions?  (Aside from KJR, as I always have that installed and it doesn't seem to make any difference)

Edited July 21, 2016 by Slam_Jones
Additional details added

[WolfGeek101]

Okay, I knew there was something going on. The WW2 parts have 1% exactly the maxTemp of the Modern parts. I'm thinking this may be a bit of an oversight, as 1000000 maxTemp seems a little excessive. It's just that it's not consistent, that's my point.

Otherwise, I love it and I wish KSP would stop breaking to the point of launching my ships kilometres into the air, even while trying the other fixes.

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

7 hours ago, WolfGeek101 said:

Okay, I knew there was something going on. The WW2 parts have 1% exactly the maxTemp of the Modern parts. I'm thinking this may be a bit of an oversight, as 1000000 maxTemp seems a little excessive. It's just that it's not consistent, that's my point.

Otherwise, I love it and I wish KSP would stop breaking to the point of launching my ships kilometres into the air, even while trying the other fixes.

HI, as you know I'm working on overhauling the mod, the masses and temperatures specified in the original cfg's are way beyond what they should be,  no part should be able to withstand a temp over the structures melting point (2750f/1510c for steel) and all the cfgs will eventually end up with temps around 2400, being the max temp of any stock part.  The side issue with the excessive temp setting is that it makes those parts with the stupidly high number virtually impervious to all weapon types and in simulations ends up with indestructible hull parts floating around aimlessly.  

  TLDR I know, it's being fixed just haven't got as far as the ww2 parts and many of the others as yet.

10 hours ago, Slam_Jones said:

Not sure if it's the same issue, but every time I get into physics range of one of my boats, it basically explodes..

As to the issues with ships being launched into the air, I've addressed this elsewhere in this thread and if the set up used by Themorris does not work for you then the only solution is to build smaller lighter ships. The smaller hulls and parts in the SM Marine mod very rarely suffer from physics issues. 

Another solution is to use Airpark (Dunclaws fork is very stable and available) To use in multiple ship situations, in SPH select the Anchor part from the utility section and fit it to your vessel, the anchor carries the part module to activate the plugin, the anchor will also work as an anchor when used with a KAS winch.

Launch your ship and once in position select the anchor option from the gui, right click the anchor to display the gui as usual. Once you select anchor the ship will effectively become landed, this means that the ship is frozen in place. This also means that  Kerbals can now walk around on the ship. Switch back to sph and repeat the same process. With care and a little bit of planning you can easily have two or more ships afloat in close proximity and switch between them as needed.  But once again the heavier your vessel is the more likely you are to run into problems. With lighter vessels and Airpark I've had 10 ships afloat in the same scene and staged 6 ship battles.  BDA will still work in a lot of cases you'll have to try it and see

 

Edited July 21, 2016 by SpannerMonkey(smce)

[V8jester]

@SpannerMonkey(smce) let me know if another set of digits to cfg bash would be helpful. I don't have as much time these days as I did before to mod. But I'm still willing to return the favor.

[WolfGeek101]

2 hours ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

HI, as you know I'm working on overhauling the mod, the masses and temperatures specified in the original cfg's are way beyond what they should be,  no part should be able to withstand a temp over the structures melting point (2750f/1510c for steel) and all the cfgs will eventually end up with temps around 2400, being the max temp of any stock part.  The side issue with the excessive temp setting is that it makes those parts with the stupidly high number virtually impervious to all weapon types and in simulations ends up with indestructible hull parts floating around aimlessly.  

  TLDR I know, it's being fixed just haven't got as far as the ww2 parts and many of the others as yet.

Alright, I'll set up a patch for my client that I can give you if you want (I'm thinking a uniform 3000).

[Hellbrand]

<redacted>

Edited July 22, 2016 by Hellbrand

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

1 minute ago, Hellbrand said:

I currently (again) am having a problem where when the large vessel comes into physics range. it decides that it's no longer a boat, but a very fast aircraft and belives it can fly. ( It  just shoots straight up into the air., Kind of fun to catch with an aircraft)

I think everyone is having some of these issues, see http://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/10092

[gomker]

On 7/21/2016 at 8:51 PM, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

I think everyone is having some of these issues, see http://bugs.kerbalspaceprogram.com/issues/10092

Researching this a bit a month ago I found people saying using FAR fixes the boat launching issue. I tried it and confirmed that something in FAR keeps it from occurring.

I removed FAR after awhile because I find the realism bump too much.

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

3 hours ago, gomker said:

Researching this a bit a month ago I found people saying using FAR fixes the boat launching issue. I tried it and confirmed that something in FAR keeps it from occurring.

I removed FAR after awhile because I find the realism bump too much.

Hi. i've been down that avenue also, the reason things behave better in a FAR game is because FAR disables the stock drag cubes and replaces them with it's own version. This once again highlights the fact that the problem is with the stock games treatment of drag and mass, rather than a limitation created or inherited from the Unity game engine. There are rumors that a lot of these issues are fixed in 1.2, but rumors meh..

[Slam_Jones]

@SpannerMonkey(smce)   Good news!  By utilizing your advice, I no longer have jumping-boat-syndrome!  I started by building a Corvette-class vessel instead of a Frigate (reducing the weight by a significant amount) and attached the Anchor to a winch.  I had a bit of trouble at first with the Anchor snapping off of the winch, but I realized I can activate Anchor mode without dropping it, which makes it much much easier.

Regardless, just wanted to say, EPIC mod and I'm super glad it works for me now!

Here's my ship if you're interested

And for anyone else experiencing your boats deciding to be dolphins (and leaping out of the water), be sure to attach an Airpark Anchor (Spanner has linked it several times in the above posts) and ACTIVATE it before you switch to another vessel!  It keeps your ship perfectly still until you de-activate it, ergo solving the issue.

Edit: Also, I found that if you spawn the ships in shallow water, they will spawn above the water rather than below it, and tho they will drop a bit, they should be strong enough to hold together.  Either way, it's worked for me every time and I've been building some pretty big ships now

Edited July 25, 2016 by Slam_Jones

[HazelPine]

I am in love with this mod! Been playing for a couple hours while doing a science career, and from what I've done, this is one of the best boat mods in KSP! Not playing with weapon mods, but nonetheless extremely fun and not finicky!

 

So far I made a medium sized ship for sea missions of sorts, and it carries a Land Rover to boot:

Spoiler

 

And I also made an 800m long, 100m wide and 61m tall aircraft carrier for future aircraft missions I'm planning. The scale of these ships are insane! And the speed it goes at makes it feasible. (Although I did put in 20 10,000kn engines for a total of 200,000kn of push, but hey, FUN!)

Gonna try to land on it as soon as it stops bobbing around from the 150m/s sprint.

Spoiler

 

Great job on this mod! If you need any help with player experience with the parts or anything, just call me up!

 

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

8 hours ago, Pine said:

Great job on this mod! If you need any help with player experience with the parts or anything, just call me up!

Great stuff, it's really good to get feedback, which seems very rare these days. I don't get to see what many build from these parts.

As for your 20 engined craft  I'd be constantly worried that it'd become a spacecraft without much provocation.

Not sure whats coming next, having an inspiration dry spell.  I would really like to condense the files and remove duplicate textures but it's a given that it would break almost every currently built ship, so i'll hold off on that until I've resolved my machines reluctance to share textures across multiple folders.

With all the changes already done and all those left to come, for example the oxidizer will be removed from all parts, the storage will remain and be tweakable for those that still want to use rocket engines, you will have to remember to add the oxidizer prior to launch. The amount of liquid fuel will be reduced massively etc etc, I will be recommending that as part of the installation procedure the PartDatabase.cfg will need to be deleted. This can be found in the main KSP folder and for good measure the saved MM files   (ModuleManager.ConfigCache, ModuleManager.ConfigSHA, ModuleManager.Physics, ModuleManager.TechTree)  . 

The reason for this is that the PartDatabase.cfg is written on first load of the part and will not change if the part changes and remains at the same address, for example if you installed LBP prior to my taking over maintenance it is very likely that important changes that have been made since that date are not actually visible in your game. Deleting  these files will not cause any known issues apart from that of at next load it will take a little longer to load in order to recalculate and re write the deleted files.

Cheers all..

[V8jester]

2 hours ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

.....

Not sure whats coming next, having an inspiration dry spell.....

Well.... Have you seen what Fengist has added to Meritime? Catipults, Tail hooks and Arrester cables. No offense to Fengist in the slightest but, Meritime is really far too small to use effectively with LBP thus mostly incompatible. I have a carrier that needs some good usable plane recovery  / throw'em off the boat equipment

Another idea as well, pre built mid air refueling parts.

Edited July 26, 2016 by V8jester

[gomker]

On 7/21/2016 at 9:40 AM, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

Another solution is to use Airpark (Dunclaws fork is very stable and available) To use in multiple ship situations, in SPH select the Anchor part from the utility section and fit it to your vessel, the anchor carries the part module to activate the plugin, the anchor will also work as an anchor when used with a KAS winch.

That anchor works great! Who made this awesome thing? I need to buy them a beer!

This should be on the top level of every Boat Pack Thread or bundled with every Boat mod.

[gomker]

@SpannerMonkey(smce) Stupid(ish) question. You have a screenshot on how to use the Modern Hull VLS-Section - I don't quite understand how to use this in construction. 

Thanks

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

23 minutes ago, gomker said:

how to use the Modern Hull VLS-Section - I don't quite understand how to use this in construction. 

Thanks

Here you go this should help

As you can see it is fitted between two normal hull parts, in the image below it has MAlFunc missile tubes clipped in place, these may or not be required depends on the missile, some missiles will clip straight onto the nodes without needing a launcher

[Eskandare]

Hi @SpannerMonkey(smce), anyone know why my ship keeps bouncing up into the stratosphere?

[gomker]

@SpannerMonkey(smce) Thank you sir, that was a bit of a duh moment when I saw that pic.

Something interesting happened when constructing my Zumwalt ship. The BD Weapon manager was detecting everything *but* the VLS Missiles. The weapon manager was on the bridge on the front and the VLS sections were in the rear.  When I added a Weapon manger directly on the VLS hull part all weapons were detected. Not sure if this is a BDArmory issue or the parts blocking the detection of the weapon.

Let me know if you want a sample craft and I can put it up on DB or KerbalX

I see that you and others revived the BDArmory Dev (thanks for that) I am going to see if I can help track that weird "fire missile" action group issue as it is affecting anything in the Malfuncs VLS tubes

 

 

@Eskandare

42 minutes ago, Eskandare said:

Hi @SpannerMonkey(smce), anyone know why my ship keeps bouncing up into the stratosphere?

See a few posts up, its been explained a few times

On 7/21/2016 at 9:40 AM, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

As to the issues with ships being launched into the air, I've addressed this elsewhere in this thread and if the set up used by Themorris does not work for you then the only solution is to build smaller lighter ships. The smaller hulls and parts in the SM Marine mod very rarely suffer from physics issues. 

Another solution is to use Airpark (Dunclaws fork is very stable and available) To use in multiple ship situations, in SPH select the Anchor part from the utility section and fit it to your vessel, the anchor carries the part module to activate the plugin, the anchor will also work as an anchor when used with a KAS winch.

Launch your ship and once in position select the anchor option from the gui, right click the anchor to display the gui as usual. Once you select anchor the ship will effectively become landed, this means that the ship is frozen in place. This also means that  Kerbals can now walk around on the ship. Switch back to sph and repeat the same process. With care and a little bit of planning you can easily have two or more ships afloat in close proximity and switch between them as needed.  But once again the heavier your vessel is the more likely you are to run into problems. With lighter vessels and Airpark I've had 10 ships afloat in the same scene and staged 6 ship battles.  BDA will still work in a lot of cases you'll have to try it and see

I can attest that the Airpark method works for me so far.

Edited July 30, 2016 by gomker
clarity

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

@gomker That is a new one for sure, it should not matter where on the vessel the WM (WeaponManager) is, unless for some reason the game is seeing 2 vessels, I will look into it, shouldn't need a craft as it's likely to affect other parts combinations if there is a problem there.  Funny you should mention the AG issue, as i was looking through the source for that particular thing and the code is there (as far as i can tell) and may just have a wrinkle somewhere.  I'd like some further corroboration though as I've a feeling it's been this way for a long time.

@Eskandare Sadly the only way I've found of avoiding the impromptu orbit syndrome is to build lighter vessels, the more mass the vessel has the worse the problem is. Currently I'm adjusting all the quantities and masses in this pack in an effort to make it a little better behaved.  I wish there was a simple way around it, there may be some potential in tweaking and adding custom drag cubes to the individual cfg''s so that the game sees a smaller lighter object where there is a huge and heavy one, this is an avenue I'm still exploring.

The Airpark method is just a bandaid and the only real fix is either killing off the stock drag cubes with a plugin or a nice shiny fix by Squad. I've been around long enough to remember when a time when it didn't matter how big the ship was or how many you had afloat, and would like it that way again

[gomker]

@SpannerMonkey(smce) 

Adding to the interesting Action group I just used your VLS Hull and your Harpoon Missiles fire with Action group but your ASM's will not. I need more debug info I think - is there any way to turn up logging?

Also noticed when I activate the generator for the "Small Hangar Structure" it is generating Liquid Fuel

Do you use anything else to bug track, like github issues? Or do you prefer them in forum messages?

Thanks

Edited July 30, 2016 by gomker
update

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

@gomker  It all gets a bit tricky when you say "your"  as I'm not sure which of the parts (or from what mod) to which you refer. But what i will say is, The ungainly VLS part prototypes I made for the LBP are actually, in the eyes of BDA,  missile turrets, they contain all the parts of a missile turret including transforms etc just in a locked down state.  The medium hull vls provide by Themorris is simply a mounting point for MalFunc weapons tubes so not a launcher in itself, this alters the way it works. As a test clip some missiles to some normal parts, hull parts , superstructure in such a way that they can launch without collision, any node will do,  and see if they will fire from AG

Don't think there's any way of turning up the logging, I've never needed more than vanilla logs, don't forget that there is another log in KSP_Data or KSP_x64_Data depending on which version 32/64bit you run, it's in a slightly different format.

The generator is a hack module that i thought I'd removed,  i use them when setting up parts so i don't have to mess around adding and removing fuel,  and i also use them for heavy stuff that i need lighter to launch. It will be gone along with the hangar fuel storage as you really don't need that mass of fuel so high above the water line.

Quite happy at the moment with bug reps here, and if it's really nasty or persistent logs, supplied logs can help me fix it in minutes instead of hours.

 

[Eskandare]

10 hours ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

 

@Eskandare Sadly the only way I've found of avoiding the impromptu orbit syndrome is to build lighter vessels, the more mass the vessel has the worse the problem is. Currently I'm adjusting all the quantities and masses in this pack in an effort to make it a little better behaved.  I wish there was a simple way around it, there may be some potential in tweaking and adding custom drag cubes to the individual cfg''s so that the game sees a smaller lighter object where there is a huge and heavy one, this is an avenue I'm still exploring.

The Airpark method is just a bandaid and the only real fix is either killing off the stock drag cubes with a plugin or a nice shiny fix by Squad. I've been around long enough to remember when a time when it didn't matter how big the ship was or how many you had afloat, and would like it that way again

That explains why my frigate mod (not released) kept bouncing into the air. Yes, those were the days. 

Also I noticed in your SM marine mod the screws had an absurd amount of power and caused my ship to fly once I brought up the power, not sure what happened there.

Edit: I miss airpark, my refueling planes haven't been the same since. I hope it is kept up with. Does it still work with aircraft?

Edited July 30, 2016 by Eskandare