Kerbal Space Program 1.1 Hype Train Thread.

[ezequielandrush]

H y p e ! ! !

[TeeGee]

No hype. I don't know why everyone is getting so worked up over a necessary update that will change nothing except performance. 

This upgrade needed to happen, especially if this game is going to continue on consoles. 

[smjjames]

2 minutes ago, TeeGee said:

No hype. I don't know why everyone is getting so worked up over a necessary update that will change nothing except performance. 

This upgrade needed to happen, especially if this game is going to continue on consoles. 

Theres more to it than just the unity5 upgrade.....

[MalevolentNinja]

6 minutes ago, TeeGee said:

No hype. I don't know why everyone is getting so worked up over a necessary update that will change nothing except performance. 

This upgrade needed to happen, especially if this game is going to continue on consoles. 

Really? Do you play this game or just watch the forums? People who play and get into a little more advanced designs all run into the performance wall of the existing code. So this is very exciting for almost everyone to be able to design and fly more advanced crafts. Also...  your opinion of what constitutes a "necessary update" doesn't mean that it would ever be done. I challenge you to name some other titles that have ported their already released game code onto a new version of the game engine -- and called it a "minor" update (1.0 to 1.1). I'd call this KSP 2.0 if they had asked me.

I don't understand how anyone would not be hyped about this update.

[pandaman]

15 minutes ago, TeeGee said:

No hype. I don't know why everyone is getting so worked up over a necessary update that will change nothing except performance. 

This upgrade needed to happen, especially if this game is going to continue on consoles. 

What this update brings mostly is POTENTIAL.

A performance increase gives the scope for bigger vessels etc.

But beyond that, due to the 32 bit memory limit issue, it opens the doors for more content from Modders and squad.

Ok. so immediately on the surface there may not be a huge difference, other than things running better and a few tweaks, so I kind of get your point.  But the hype is not just about 'this' update directly it's about how significant it is for the game's future too.

[Temeter]

42 minutes ago, TeeGee said:

No hype. I don't know why everyone is getting so worked up over a necessary update that will change nothing except performance. 

This upgrade needed to happen, especially if this game is going to continue on consoles. 

I can build ships 5 times bigger than before, freely use a large amount of mods and high res SVE.

What of these things isn't worth the hype? Kinda sucks that you currently just can't build anything big or complex without painful performance issues. Can't start more than a single big mission in realism mods or I get a memory crash.

Edited March 25, 2016 by Temeter

[nosirrbro]

It's finally happened, the hype has reached critical mass, were accelerating at insane speeds and no maintenance is required!

HHHHYYYYPPPPEEEE

[smjjames]

7 minutes ago, Temeter said:

I can build ships 5 times bigger than before, freely use a large amount of mods and high res SVE.

What of these things isn't worth the hype? Kinda sucks that you currently just can't build anything big or complex without painful performance issues. Can't start more than a single big mission in realism mods or I get a memory crash.

There has been no word that the one major memory leak remaining (the scene change one) has been fixed yet.

[Temeter]

13 minutes ago, smjjames said:

There has been no word that the one major memory leak remaining (the scene change one) has been fixed yet.

That leak is rather minor at the moment, and I think also more of a lack of cleaning up stuff compared to just collecting infinite amounts of RAM.

And look at it this way: With practically unlimited RAM usage, the leak isn't really an issue, because the game can't memory crash. Even in supermodded RO/RSS/RP-0 installs said leak is only a hundred couple MB at a time.

Of course bad when the Spaceport is already at 2.9GB, VAB at 3.45 and crashes happen above 3.6 in 32 Bit, but negligible when you got 8+GB RAM at the ready in 64 Bit.

Edited March 25, 2016 by Temeter

[smjjames]

1 minute ago, Temeter said:

That leak is rather minor at the moment, and I think also more of a lack of cleaning up stuff compared to just collecting infinite amounts of RAM.

And look at it this way: With practically unlimited RAM usage, the leak isn't really an issue, because the game can't memory crash. Even in supermodded RO/RSS/RP-0 installs said leak is only a hundred couple MB at a time. Of course bad when the Spaceport is already at 3GB, but negligible when you got 8+GB RAM at the ready.

So the OOM crashes in 64bit with the 32bit app isn't the game itself crashing? Don't know how that works.

[Temeter]

12 minutes ago, smjjames said:

So the OOM crashes in 64bit with the 32bit app isn't the game itself crashing? Don't know how that works.

No, the current KSP (1.0.5) only comes with a 32bit executable. Your PC is of course usually capable of 64Bit, but the game still only runs in 32, it's set up that way. Issue with 32bit is that you can only adress up to 4GB of RAM to a single process. So when KSP reaches 4GB, there is no more memory for it left for it to use (its out of memory), the application just crashes. Not a bug, just part of how 32bit apps work.

Unity 5 comes with a 64bit exe, which can adress 128 petabyte (= near unlimited memory for now) to a single application. So as long as you got enough RAM in your PC, the game can't run out of memory.

TL/DR: Awesomeness is closing in.

Edited March 25, 2016 by Temeter

[ezequielandrush]

6 minutes ago, Temeter said:

Unity 5 comes with a 64bit exe, which can adress 128 petabyte (= near unlimited memory for now) to a single application. So as long as you got enough RAM in your PC, the game can't run out of memory.

For Now... In ten years this won't be funny

[Temeter]

17 minutes ago, ezequielandrush said:

For Now... In ten years this won't be funny

Might well be, although the jump from 32 to 64 is absurdly large compared 16 to 32, and 32bit worked just fine for a long time. That said, those bit numbers aren't a significant acchievement or anything, the only true issue tends to be downward compatability.

E.g., ever wondered why the N64 was named that way? Cause it was 64bit, in 1996.

Edited March 25, 2016 by Temeter

[Archgeek]

1 hour ago, TeeGee said:

No hype. I don't know why everyone is getting so worked up over a necessary update that will change nothing except performance. 

Who in the heck wouldn't get hyped about a statistically significant performance increase?  Faster scene changes, less yellowclock, a lot less redclock, all the mods your box can handle, a metric buttload less bugs, ancient bugs finally struck down by @Claw's well-honed blade.  These things are all utterly terrific.  This should invite a veritable hype-vortex, but I think people are just exercising their patience glands and letting the team bake this one to a nice golden brown, after which the open beta testers will get to cut into it and help remove any hairs or slivers of glass that got past 'em.

43 minutes ago, Temeter said:

[...]look at it this way: With practically unlimited RAM usage, the leak isn't really an issue, because the game can't memory crash. Even in supermodded RO/RSS/RP-0 installs said leak is only a hundred couple MB at a time.

Of course bad when the Spaceport is already at 2.9GB, VAB at 3.45 and crashes happen above 3.6 in 32 Bit, but negligible when you got 8+GB RAM at the ready in 64 Bit.

In fairness, some of us have blatantly 64b machines with only 4 gigs of RAM.  We still get the whole 4 gigs and not the 3.6ish one can address in 32b, but a few hundred megs per scene change would have my box slowing doing from hitting swap file before long, considering it's usually got around 2.4 gigs to spare for the game if I've got browsers and stuff up, and would crash outright after less than 40 scene changes, which can happen during iterative testing.  On the other hand I run all of three mods, so that number's probably a bit extreme.

[Temeter]

Edit: To be fair, I expect even the release version of 1.1 to have a buch of new bugs. Seems just unavoidable after such a huge upgrade.

Most likely they won't be as deep ingrained and more fixable tho, many issues with the UI have been there since the first public version. And it's not like Squad didn't take a lot of time to fix stuff, QA started in December.

10 minutes ago, Archgeek said:

Who in the heck wouldn't get hyped about a statistically significant performance increase?  Faster scene changes, less yellowclock, a lot less redclock, all the mods your box can handle, a metric buttload less bugs, ancient bugs finally struck down by @Claw's well-honed blade.  These things are all utterly terrific.  This should invite a veritable hype-vortex, but I think people are just exercising their patience glands and letting the team bake this one to a nice golden brown, after which the open beta testers will get to cut into it and help remove any hairs or slivers of glass that got past 'em.

In fairness, some of us have blatantly 64b machines with only 4 gigs of RAM.  We still get the whole 4 gigs and not the 3.6ish one can address in 32b, but a few hundred megs per scene change would have my box slowing doing from hitting swap file before long, considering it's usually got around 2.4 gigs to spare for the game if I've got browsers and stuff up, and would crash outright after less than 40 scene changes, which can happen during iterative testing.  On the other hand I run all of three mods, so that number's probably a bit extreme.

Man, 4GB must suck, of course you're then still limited by RAM and memory leaks. Usually 8GB is standard, RAM prices are low and stable in the recent past.

I assume an older laptop? You can upgrade the memory in laptops for a reasonable price, but might not be worth it with older models.

Btw: Do you use DX11 or OpenGL? Does a fantastic job at lowering RAM usage, so I'd absolutely recommend it if not.

Edited March 25, 2016 by Temeter

[Archgeek]

12 minutes ago, Temeter said:

Man, 4GB must suck, of course you're then still limited by RAM and memory leaks. Usually 8GB is standard, RAM prices are low and stable in the recent past.

I assume an older laptop? You can upgrade the memory in laptops for a reasonable price, but might not be worth it with older models.

Btw: Do you use DX11 or OpenGL? Does a fantastic job at lowering RAM usage, so I'd absolutely recommend it if not.

Older frankenbox.  Thing was built back when the Intel Core2 line was new, has a core 2 Duo to prove it.  Originally ran XP64, in fact.  Pretty modern graphics card, nice mobo, but it won't take sticks over 2 gigs and 2 of the four slots are broken.  I think the traces on their connectors got cracked when it was installed in its orginal case (intended as a full immersion oil-cooled rig, never completed, but the mobo was mounted on a sheet of lexan so it could be removed from bath for upgrades) and I remember it bending frighteningly under the absurd force needed to install the first two sticks.  Very reliable box, but will bluescreen if there's RAM for it to try to use in the other two slots.

I think I need a better box. </jaws_reference>

DX11 most like, if not 10 for some reason.  I've tried OpenGL, but it does...things.

[TeeGee]

2 hours ago, MalevolentNinja said:

Really? Do you play this game or just watch the forums? People who play and get into a little more advanced designs all run into the performance wall of the existing code. So this is very exciting for almost everyone to be able to design and fly more advanced crafts. Also...  your opinion of what constitutes a "necessary update" doesn't mean that it would ever be done. I challenge you to name some other titles that have ported their already released game code onto a new version of the game engine -- and called it a "minor" update (1.0 to 1.1). I'd call this KSP 2.0 if they had asked me.

I don't understand how anyone would not be hyped about this update.

Just because you'll be able to have more mods and build more complex crafts doesn't mean your game won't lag with it. All this does is allow for ksp to run with more ram like ALL modern games should. This update is just to bring this game into current gen. It HAD to happen. No excuse not to update KSP to use the latest unity engine.

[Temeter]

LOL, I'm surprised the game even starts on that antique thing. Getting a new one does sound quite good. No clue what's frankenbox tho, a producer or some mutated laptop? Does it drown little girls?

DX11 generally has much better performance (+MSAA) than OGL anyway, so if DX11 works, there is no point in switching up. Your answer is a bit unclear, normally the game starts in DX9, but you canforce it on DX11 with a simple command line, did you do that?

3 minutes ago, TeeGee said:

Just because you'll be able to have more mods and build more complex crafts doesn't mean your game won't lag with it. All this does is allow for ksp to run with more ram like ALL modern games should. This update is just to bring this game into current gen. It HAD to happen. No excuse not to update KSP to use the latest unity engine.

Errrm... No?

There is nothing forcing a dev to upgrade a game post release to a newer engine. You got weird ideas.

Edited March 25, 2016 by Temeter

[CuAnnan]

I really wish they'd set up and lock a thread that we can subscribe to for the beta and a seperate one for the release.

Sadface.

[MalevolentNinja]

6 minutes ago, TeeGee said:

Just because you'll be able to have more mods and build more complex crafts doesn't mean your game won't lag with it. All this does is allow for ksp to run with more ram like ALL modern games should. This update is just to bring this game into current gen. It HAD to happen. No excuse not to update KSP to use the latest unity engine.

We will have to agree to disagree. There's a lot of hyped people in here - if this update doesn't excite you personally, fair enough.

But you keep expressing it had to happen though... I'll say it again - name other games that have done this. Why would Squad have to do this? The game is already a run away success financially, I don't think they see this as a way to generate more sales. So why would you see it as something they had to do?

11 minutes ago, Temeter said:

Errrm... No?

There is nothing forcing a dev to upgrade a game post release to a newer engine. You got weird ideas.

Yeah I have to agree.

[pandaman]

6 minutes ago, CuAnnan said:

I really wish they'd set up and lock a thread that we can subscribe to for the beta and a seperate one for the release.

Sadface.

Why?

The open beta is of interest to ALL of us, not just those actually participating.  And just because we may not be testing doesn't mean we can't help by asking questions and pointing stuff out if we see it.

[Temeter]

14 minutes ago, pandaman said:

Why?

The open beta is of interest to ALL of us, not just those actually participating.  And just because we may not be testing doesn't mean we can't help by asking questions and pointing stuff out if we see it.

Might even be helpful to those who can't even try the beta!

I mean, if it's just discussion about beta and release, then I don't really see why it should get into a seperate thread. This one here is only a lowly regulated hype thread anyway.

For technical stuff (report etc) we're probably going to go to a support section anyway.

Edited March 25, 2016 by Temeter

[Archgeek]

1 hour ago, Temeter said:

LOL, I'm surprised the game even starts on that antique thing. Getting a new one does sound quite good. No clue what's frankenbox tho, a producer or some mutated laptop? Does it drown little girls?

DX11 generally has much better performance (+MSAA) than OGL anyway, so if DX11 works, there is no point in switching up. Your answer is a bit unclear, normally the game starts in DX9, but you canforce it on DX11 with a simple command line, did you do that?

Hey, it runs dang ol' Elite Dangerous pretty well somehow.  I suspect sorcery.  A frankenbox is a custom rig made from parts of varying sources and ages.  This thing has original mobo and RAM, but it's on its second HD, third video card (PCIe's lasted well), second network card, and second case (now a decent aluminium tower rather than its old open air fish tank with bodged to the side power switch).  I've also twice re-lubricated a dying case fan bearing.

I might've done that in my main steam install, but my serveral older/experimental installs I generally just run the executable directly.  Currently I'm playing a .235 install, trying to bring my kerbals home (and also run around the system in an overbuilt ion-probe-lander for some reason).

But to avoid getting kicked to the Astronaut Lounge or something, back on topic:  HYPE~!  Now I'll be able to use both cores when docking things!

[Temeter]

3 minutes ago, Archgeek said:

Hey, it runs dang ol' Elite Dangerous pretty well somehow.  I suspect sorcery.  A frankenbox is a custom rig made from parts of varying sources and ages.  This thing has original mobo and RAM, but it's on its second HD, third video card (PCIe's lasted well), second network card, and second case (now a decent aluminium tower rather than its old open air fish tank with bodged to the side power switch).  I've also twice re-lubricated a dying case fan bearing.

I might've done that in my main steam install, but my serveral older/experimental installs I generally just run the executable directly.  Currently I'm playing a .235 install, trying to bring my kerbals home (and also run around the system in an overbuilt ion-probe-lander for some reason).

But to avoid getting kicked to the Astronaut Lounge or something, back on topic:  HYPE~!  Now I'll be able to use both cores when docking things!

Hm, I've just replaced one part after another of my PC as well for like 10 years? Might have been a bigger switchup between tho. Just a generic, fine PC. Only the GPU is a bit outdated and needs to be replaced sometime, although that GTX660 really holds its own. I5 4k just rans away in every regard, but it's still functional combo for the few CPU heavy games like KSP.

[zarakon]

Is there a list anywhere of all the confirmed features and changes?