[ASC-III] Air Superiority Challenge - King of the Hill (BDArmory 4v4 AI Duels: WW1 Theme) - Now Concluded!

[Bananders]

1 hour ago, Draconiator said:

Sorry for the delay, I had to wait for a confirmation from Jrod and then Movie Maker basically told me to bugger off...lol, but here it is and will be ready in around 50 minutes.

This went better than expected

[Draconiator]

Soooo what are we using for this?  I've already made two craft for ASC II, one 30 parts, the other 29...are we staying under 30?  are we still using only KAX or is AA allowed now?

 

 

Edited May 29, 2016 by Draconiator

[DoctorDavinci]

16 hours ago, inigma said:

DRAFT: Air Superiority Challenge III Entry Rules:

• 4 aircraft (must look like a plane) required per team (can be same or different crafts), all must be manned with at least one Kerbal, all Kerbals in command seats, no closed cockpits.
• All craft must be built in KSP 1.1.2
• 2 guns maximum.
• 50 part limit maximum per craft.
• All stock parts permitted except: Engines, Mk3 sized parts, Big S wing, Big S elevon.
• No mod parts permitted except the following:
  • BDArmory (required for AI Flight Computer, and AI Weapons Manager. The .50 caliber Browning machine gun is the only weapon from this mod permitted in this series.)
  • Aviator Arsenal (any weapon from this mod is permitted)
  • Kerbal Aircraft Expansion (required for liquid fueled propeller engines only, no other parts permitted)
• No restrictions on AI, or Weapons Manager settings.
• Entries must contain download link for the craft file(s) to the ASC KerbalX.com Hangar and posted to this thread (static links prevent me having to update the OP with your new versions).
• Only AI and Weapons Manager changes are permitted to the ASC champion between matches to fine-tune their AI response to upcoming challengers. No other part changes are permitted to the ASC champion.
• All challengers are permitted to make any changes they wish to their craft up to and just before their match vs the current ASC champion. If you are next in line, please notify the match host so your changes are committed to the match. If the match host missed your note, it's not their fault. Just re-submit your craft.
• Only one active entry per person at a time (to prevent dueling yourself).
• Match hosts will only engage staging once to turn on your engines at 0 throttle up to 3 minutes before match start, so be sure to tie in any components you want activated to the SAS action group (competition start engages SAS automatically), and be sure to include enough electricity to keep them active while stationary and throttled to 0.
• You may not trigger the Weapons Manager, or AI, or any of their settings, via the staging or SAS action groups. This prematurely enables fighting, and crafts that do will be disqualified.

This is a draft of the current rules for ASC-III

No turrets allowed ... .50 cal and AA weapons only

[Blanjipan]

4 minutes ago, Draconiator said:

Soooo what are we using for this?  I've already made two craft for ASC II, one 30 parts, the other 29...are we staying under 30?  are we still using only KAX or is AA allowed now?

 

 

It's a 50 part limit for ASC III.

[Bananders]

Just now, DoctorDavinci said:

50 cal and AA weapons only

Just to make sure, AA is Aviators Arsenal, right?

[Blanjipan]

19 minutes ago, Bananders said:

Just to make sure, AA is Aviators Arsenal, right?

Yes, it is.

[Draconiator]

Alrighty, I just got AA and may edit my craft slightly.

[colmo]

7 hours ago, g00bd0g said:

@colmo Please put it up against VulcaRaptor 2.0

https://kerbalx.com/g00bd0g/VulcaRaptor-20 

Will do, though I'm AFK for a day or more (sorry, @NotAnAimbot, never got to it today).

My general observation is that many Kings are on the portly side with too many guns, more fuel than necessary and thus rather large profiles.

My plane isn't quite what we called a 'peanut fighter' (cockpit, 1 tank, engine for minimum profile) in the Top Gun AI contests, but it is nearly half the weight (a smidge over 8.5T) of most of these and doesn't use reaction wheels to increase manoeuvrability (we banned them in TGAI).

With limited thrust prop engines, weight will be a more obvious performance constraint for ASC-III.

[Draconiator]

Here's the second one I built for ASC III, and will submit this if the Llama fails, I figured...with this I have to sacrifice firepower for weight and maneuverability...so thin thing has 7.62mm guns on it.  I give you the Kerbwith S-1:

Testing 4v4 Super Llama against S-1, and these do not have the firepower to take out craft outright, but they do seem to be able to destroy lifting surfaces pretty well...I expect the majority of planes which lose to these will be the fact that they can't steer well and crash into the ground as a result.

Edit, ended up putting 20mm's on these things  The other ones took too long lol

Edited May 30, 2016 by Draconiator

[inigma]

14 hours ago, jrodriguez said:

Inigma I was wondering why you don't want to use any other body parts from KAX? There are a lot of useful parts for WWI/WW2 planes

I'm not worried about the 4vs4. We are pushing a max of 8x50=400 parts and No missiles. Versus ASC-2=6x100 = 600 parts + dozens of missiles vessels with their laggy smoke particles. 

I've recording the most part of the matches for ASC-2 and I feel this series are going to be much more smoother that the previous. I have an average of 35-40 FPS (all video settings maxed out, scaterer and EVE),  versus 18-25 FPS when all the missiles were fired in ASC-2.

Which body parts from KAX? Cockpits? Heavy booms? Those are either too big or to modern. The idea I have is to make competing in ASC-III very simple:  take a stock airplane, add a KAX engine, add a pair of BDArmory .50 cals (or AA weapons).  Just trying to keep it simple this time around.

Also, the matches will be much longer. Do we want to go best 2 or 3, or first to 3 wins?

I've already run a test match myself. I believe we won't be able to use Vessel Mover as hosts this time around due to command seated kerbals and the Contract Configurator spawn code that Vessel Mover uses (I ran into the same issues developing the Island Attack contract in GAP). But I love the fights! Can't wait to start pitting some ideas against the rest of you guys. If this series proves very popular, we might run it two months instead of the normal one.

4 hours ago, Draconiator said:

Soooo what are we using for this?  I've already made two craft for ASC II, one 30 parts, the other 29...are we staying under 30?  are we still using only KAX or is AA allowed now?

 

 

50 parts or less.

3 hours ago, DoctorDavinci said:

This is a draft of the current rules for ASC-III

No turrets allowed ... .50 cal and AA weapons only

correct.

3 hours ago, Bananders said:

Just to make sure, AA is Aviators Arsenal, right?

yes

1 hour ago, colmo said:

Will do, though I'm AFK for a day or more (sorry, @NotAnAimbot, never got to it today).

My general observation is that many Kings are on the portly side with too many guns, more fuel than necessary and thus rather large profiles.

My plane isn't quite what we called a 'peanut fighter' (cockpit, 1 tank, engine for minimum profile) in the Top Gun AI contests, but it is nearly half the weight (a smidge over 8.5T) of most of these and doesn't use reaction wheels to increase manoeuvrability (we banned them in TGAI).

With limited thrust prop engines, weight will be a more obvious performance constraint for ASC-III.

Unlike WWI, reaction wheels are permitted in ASC III. Should be interesting.

[inigma]

OP updated with winner. 2 more matches and ASC II is finished!

[NotAnAimbot]

31 minutes ago, inigma said:

Unlike WWI, reaction wheels are permitted in ASC III

Personally, I think reaction wheels should be banned. This is WW1/2 aerial warfare, not 1970-80 with props. Putting reaction wheels will just give ridiculous stabilization to the guns, which were and will be more innacurate than an advanced FBW system we have access to in ASC-I and II. Perhaps a limit of 1 small reaction wheel for minimal gun stabilization?

[epicman81]

14 hours ago, colmo said:

I have a legal design which pretty much eats the current king (and the Battlewing) for breakfast. Inigma went and ended the challenge before I got round to entering! I'll do a video of my own.

It has no flares which makes it vulnerable to heatseekers.

[jrodriguez]

@inigma What is the issue between Vessel Mover and Command Seat? Is not filling the seat with Kerbals?

I'll try to make it compatible with Take Command. Vessel Mover is a critical mod for hosting, even more in this series that we want to use Aircraft Carriers.

[Draconiator]

Surprise!  This was supposed to be up tomorrow, but I felt like burning the midnight oil for you guys.  I love this community so much... Bananders is one step away from absolute victory as the champion of ASC II!  Can g00bd0g unseat him?  Stay tuned to this post for the finale!  And now here's the video, I'm tired...need sleeeeeeeep...

 

[Bananders]

ignore this post

Edited May 31, 2016 by Bananders

[Draconiator]

I had to make a few last-minute changes to comply with the rules, but here is my first submission for ASC III:

https://kerbalx.com/Draconiator/Kerbwith-Super-Llama

[Blanjipan]

13 hours ago, inigma said:

Unlike WWI, reaction wheels are permitted in ASC III. Should be interesting.

Good. My submission abuses reaction wheels.

[Draconiator]

Well here we are...the final battle of ASC II...But before that...

 

[Jollyfellow]

So... I'm trying to make an ASC-III plane, but when it's on the runway, trying to take off, it will reach take off speed and try to fly downwards instead of lifting off the ground... Why is it doing this?

[DoctorDavinci]

7 minutes ago, Jollyfellow said:

So... I'm trying to make an ASC-III plane, but when it's on the runway, trying to take off, it will reach take off speed and try to fly downwards instead of lifting off the ground... Why is it doing this?

My first guess is that your CoL (Center of Lift) is too far behind your CoM (Center of Mass)

My second guess is that the center of your main wings are too far from your CoM

[Jollyfellow]

2 minutes ago, DoctorDavinci said:

My first guess is that your CoL (Center of Lift) is too far behind your CoM (Center of Mass)

My second guess is that the center of your main wings are too far from your CoM

First guess is correct, but I don't know which I would move, that being the CoL or CoM, without drastically changing the plane...

Edit: Wait, I can just rotate the back of the wings upwards... We'll try this

Edited May 30, 2016 by Jollyfellow

[DoctorDavinci]

5 minutes ago, Jollyfellow said:

First guess is correct, but I don't know which I would move, that being the CoL or CoM, without drastically changing the plane...

Edit: Wait, I can just rotate the back of the wings upwards... We'll try this

It's not a plane if it can't fly ... The CoL and CoM have a relationship and if they are too far away from each other things go all wonky

Edited May 30, 2016 by DoctorDavinci

[Jollyfellow]

That didn't work... It's only a problem with the AI flight, manual flight works fine... The CoM and CoL are perfectly aligned.

Could it be a problem with mod versions?

 

Edited May 30, 2016 by Jollyfellow

[DoctorDavinci]

5 minutes ago, Jollyfellow said:

That didn't work... It's only a problem with the AI flight, manual flight works fine... The CoM and CoL are perfectly aligned.

Meaning the CoL is slightly behind the CoM?

Or do you have them perfectly set over each other?

5 minutes ago, Jollyfellow said:

Could it be a problem with mod versions?

Possibly

BDA hasn't been released for 1.1.2 yet and AA was last updated February so isn't even compiled for 1.1.2 although it works

Edited May 30, 2016 by DoctorDavinci