[1.3.0] Kerbalism v1.2.9

[STHedgeHog]

On 1/22/2018 at 8:34 AM, CaspersDK said:

I've recently run into a series of errors when I try to launch my game. In CKAN I choose to install all the listed compatible mods (on the forum), and the first page of suggested additions to said mods (in CKAN), when I go to launch the game, it says:

1 error related to GameData/Kerbalism/Support/EPL.cfg

1 error related to GameData/Kerbalism/Support/JX2Antenna.cfg

4 errors related to GameData/Kerbalism/Support/OrbitalScience.cfg

1 error related to GameData/Kerbalism/Support/SoundingRockets.cfg

 

And some others which are quite mushed together on-top of eachother. I have no idea what is causing this, or how to fix it. Does anyone know how I could diagnose the problem or does anyone have experience with this?

Edit: I also unlocked the pressurized tank and other life support containers, but only the planetary base ones show up.

Thank you in advance.

To stop Kerbalism throwing lots of errors during loading, you simply need to go into every file in the GameData\Kerbalism\Support folder, and replace every instance of ":FOR[Kerbalism]" with ":NEEDS[Kerbalism]"

If you have Notepad++ installed (I highly recommend it if you don't) you can open every file at once, hit CTRL+H, fill in Find what and Replace what, and click Replace All in All Opened Documents

I only have about 3 mods installed that are listed in the support folder, but as its worked for those, it should work for the others.

3 hours ago, theJesuit said:

Hi @Nathangun

Could you please add the line

@PART[kerbalism-geigercounter]:HAS[@MODULE[*]]:FINAL { @category = Science }

To your patch as it is missing the geiger counter which is most useful under science . I couldn't find it in my new Career Save.

This patch does work with Module Manager 3.0.1.

Peace.

Odd that part doesn't show for you. I had to double check my patch and it is indeed missing from there, but I can see the Geiger Counter listed under science in my game anyhow.

 

One question I have that I cant seem to figure out is, does anyone know how I can create a part that will Remove Radiation from a Kerbal, without sending them back to the KSC. I've got a small colony going on Duna, and although the ship was shielded, they still have nearly 20% radiation.

I've tried editing the Active Shielding part and set it's emitter to -100 (its -0.008 default) but that just slows the rad gain to a crawl rather than reversing it.

I just cant seem to see what property I need to adjust so I can create a Rad Scrubber.

[theJesuit]

1 hour ago, STHedgeHog said:

To stop Kerbalism throwing lots of errors during loading, you simply need to go into every file in the GameData\Kerbalism\Support folder, and replace every instance of ":FOR[Kerbalism]" with ":NEEDS[Kerbalism]"

If you have Notepad++ installed (I highly recommend it if you don't) you can open every file at once, hit CTRL+H, fill in Find what and Replace what, and click Replace All in All Opened Documents

I only have about 3 mods installed that are listed in the support folder, but as its worked for those, it should work for the others.

Odd that part doesn't show for you. I had to double check my patch and it is indeed missing from there, but I can see the Geiger Counter listed under science in my game anyhow.

 

One question I have that I cant seem to figure out is, does anyone know how I can create a part that will Remove Radiation from a Kerbal, without sending them back to the KSC. I've got a small colony going on Duna, and although the ship was shielded, they still have nearly 20% radiation.

I've tried editing the Active Shielding part and set it's emitter to -100 (its -0.008 default) but that just slows the rad gain to a crawl rather than reversing it.

I just cant seem to see what property I need to adjust so I can create a Rad Scrubber.

Short answer... you can't.   Radiation is added to a kerbal when it is a positive value.

The only mod that removes radiation from the kerbal is Deep Freeze.  Basically if a kerbal is unloaded from like at KSC which I'm assuming is what is happening in Deep Freeze as well the radiation is returned to zero.

I've had an idea though so when I'm back at my PC I'll look into into it.  

Peace.

[theJesuit]

@STHedgeHog my idea didn't pan out.  What would need to happen is for someone to pick up kerbalism and add a function to the dll to reduce the property of radiation in a kerbal as I think it is hard coded.

Given that @ShotgunNinja hasn't been here since August 2017 it is probably okay now to consider kerbalism ready to be adopted or adapted.  The unlicense certainly allows for it.

Peace.

[John Nowak]

On 1/25/2018 at 12:22 AM, theJesuit said:

The greenhouse I think already has a volume area - from memory it requires nitrogen to maintain pressure for the plants to grow.  It may also then provide habitable space which would decrease stress.  Check if that is the case.  If not then the optional wet workshop conversion cfg that is normally off cold be looked at to see how it works.

Peace.

I seem to recall that earlier versions of Kerbalism used a generic comfort modifier. But I agree that the volume increase does much the same thing. As I have added a chemical plant to the station, the crew is slowly adding Shielding. 

[STHedgeHog]

So, I think I've found a way to make a Radiation scrubber after all, but it involves a fair few changes to the profile cfg file (easy enough to add to any profile if you're using radiation from Kerbalism)

The way Kerbalism treats Radiation is the same way it treats Food/Water/Oxygen. Its a resource that builds up over time and can be lowered but eating/drinking/breathing. So applying the same settings to Radiation works the same way, adding a resource input and rate to the Radiation rule, then creating a process that makes that resource, you can trick it in to consuming the resource to lower radiation levels when you enable the created process.

This may seem a bit complicated but I'll break down how to edit the profile to add this so you can all see how it works (hopefully)

 

In your Kerbalism profile, find the Rule about Radiation, and add an input, output( if you want) and rate. So..

  Rule
  {
    name = radiation
    degeneration = 1.0 // just use the modifier
    ...

Becomes something like..

  Rule
  {
    name = radiation
    input = Decontamination
    output = WasteWater
    rate = 100000.0
    degeneration = 1.0 // just use the modifier
    ...

And Add a Process for the radiation removal..

  Process
  {
    name = radiation extraction
    modifier = _RadiationExtraction
    input = [email protected]
    input = [email protected]
    output = [email protected]
    dump = false
  }

In the section about Life Support, after the "@PART[*]:HAS[#CrewCapacity[>0]..." line, add a MODULE for the new process..

  MODULE
  {
    name = ProcessController
    resource = _RadiationExtraction
    title = Radiation Extraction
    capacity = 1
    running = false
  }

And below that, in the "MODULE > name = Configure" part add a SETUP for this process..

    SETUP
    {
      name = Radiation Extraction
      desc = Uses masive amounts of <b>Water</b> to scrub <b>Radiation</b> from Kerbals.
      tech = experimentalScience
      mass = 0.1
      cost = 2000
      
      MODULE
      {
        type = ProcessController
        id_field = resource
        id_value = _RadiationExtraction
      }
      
      RESOURCE
      {
        name = Decontamination
        amount = 0.0
        maxAmount = 1.0
        isTweakable = false
        isVisible = false
      }
    }

And finally, at the bottom of the profile, where the "Pseudo-resources used by processes" are listed, add the two new resources..

RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
  name = Decontamination
  density = 0.0
  isTweakable = false
  isVisible = false
}

RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
  name = _RadiationExtraction
  density = 0.0
  isVisible = false
}

Now, providing I haven't missed anything, and you've got the tech unlocked (Experimental Science, same as the Active Shield) You can choose this option when configuring any command pod that has crew space.

When its active, it'll use a lot of water, and slowly remove any radiation from a Kerbal in the pod (~1000 water for 50% radiation). Note that it only works for ONE Kerbal, if you have more on the ship/base, they need to be either taken out on EVA, or you'll need to create a separate ship/base for just one Kerbal, lots of water and the Decontaminator.  Once one Kerbal is clean, you can just swap them about to clean the rest, just like having a Radiation Scrubber room. 

You can always add more pods with Radiation Extractors in them for multiple Kerbals (at a higher water cost) or maybe tweak the settings to get it to work better, but I went this way as I was balancing it for a single Kerbal. Setting it so it cleans 12 at once is all good, but that would then clean a single Kerbal in seconds, which just doesn't feel right to me.

[theJesuit]

@STHedgeHog Your Kerbalism fu is better than mine I tried to do something similar but was only affect shielding

Genius.  Perhaps we ping @Tokamak to comission/ask nicely for a 'Decontamination' part with capacity 1 for this purpose or add it as a module to the gravity ring as that only has a crew capacity of 1.

Peace.

Edited January 27, 2018 by theJesuit

[Meridius]

OK...question is who is going to take over this project with the requisite modding skill to update Kerbalism with all of the needed tweeks and fixes including parting a decon module?  Just to answer the question that will certainly popup -- I neither have the time, the inclination, nor the skill to take over this project.  This mod is one of the beauties in KSP and needs to be updated and "owned" by someone that will maintain the mod properly and answer questions and sometimes, "just think $#&@ up."

(Edit:  "excrement" that was filtered for the word I actually insert just doesn't sound right...)

Edited January 27, 2018 by Meridius
Excrement filter

[STHedgeHog]

Although I do have knowledge of programming in Unity, and a bit of 3DS Max usage under my belt. I have zero idea of how plugins work for KSP.

I might have to fire Unity up and have a look at Kerbalism source code, but I fairly sure its beyond my level so someone else with previous modding skill would be far more suited.

Guess I should have a hunt through YouTube to see if there's a few guides...

[Dr. Jet]

Greenhouse config is WEIRD....

Food and oxygen is currently produced from water (H₂O), ammonia (NH₃, which is actually POISON for plants) and sunlight (or EC)... 

Thus kerbal food consists of hydrogen and nitrogen only. NO CARBON! 

Please, tell me that you just FORGOT to add CO₂ to the input resourses? 

 

Edited January 28, 2018 by Dr. Jet

[lordcirth]

28 minutes ago, Dr. Jet said:

Greenhouse config is WEIRD....

Food and oxygen is currently produced from water (H₂O), ammonia (NH₃, which is actually POISON for plants) and sunlight (or EC)... 

Thus kerbal food consists of hydrogen and nitrogen only. NO CARBON! 

Please, tell me that you just FORGET to add CO₂ to the input resourses? 

 

Ammonia is simplified from ammonium nitrate.  The Greenhouse also consumes Waste, which is where the carbon comes from.

[John Nowak]

On 4/14/2017 at 4:46 PM, AG5BPilot said:

1) I'm using DMagic's Orbital Science.  Several of his science parts produce "samples" under Kerbalism.  The problem is that some of his parts are supposed to produce 2 or 4 samples, but when running under Kerbalism they become inoperative after the first sample.  Is this the intended behavior?

I've run into this, too, but I'm not sure if this issues ever been addressed. 

 

 

[Dr. Jet]

28 minutes ago, lordcirth said:

Ammonia is simplified from ammonium nitrate.  The Greenhouse also consumes Waste, which is where the carbon comes from.

MODULE
  {
    name = Greenhouse

    crop_resource = Food                // name of resource produced by harvests
    crop_size = 2500.0                  // amount of resource produced by harvests
    crop_rate = 0.00000023148           // growth per-second when all conditions apply
    ec_rate = 2.5                       // EC/s consumed by the lamp at max intensity

    light_tolerance = 400.0             // minimum lighting flux required for growth, in W/m^2
    pressure_tolerance = 0.1            // minimum pressure required for growth, in sea level atmospheres
    radiation_tolerance = 0.000008333   // maximum radiation allowed for growth in rad/s, considered after shielding is applied

    lamps = Cylinder001                 // object with emissive texture used to represent lamp intensity graphically
    shutters = door                     // animation to manipulate shutters
    plants =                            // animation to represent plant growth graphically

    INPUT_RESOURCE
    {
      name = Ammonia
      rate = 0.00695                    // 37530 units required for crop
    }

    INPUT_RESOURCE
    {
      name = Water
      rate = 0.00023148                 // 1250 units required for crop
    }

    OUTPUT_RESOURCE
    {
      name = Oxygen
      rate = 0.00463                    // 25% of oxygen required by 1 crew member
    }

    OUTPUT_RESOURCE
    {
      name = WasteWater
      rate = 0.00023033
    }
  }

Waste? It does not.

Anyway, where did you see ANY plant that consumes feces or ammonia and DON'T consume CO₂? Parasites and saprophytes which cannot do photosyntesis are literally useless in greenhouse. 

And if you look into configs for "Ammonia" production - it's clearly NH₃ and NOT NH₄NO₃ - by simple reason that process does not use any oxygen.

Edited January 28, 2018 by Dr. Jet

[theJesuit]

6 hours ago, Dr. Jet said:

MODULE
  {
    name = Greenhouse

    crop_resource = Food                // name of resource produced by harvests
    crop_size = 2500.0                  // amount of resource produced by harvests
    crop_rate = 0.00000023148           // growth per-second when all conditions apply
    ec_rate = 2.5                       // EC/s consumed by the lamp at max intensity

    light_tolerance = 400.0             // minimum lighting flux required for growth, in W/m^2
    pressure_tolerance = 0.1            // minimum pressure required for growth, in sea level atmospheres
    radiation_tolerance = 0.000008333   // maximum radiation allowed for growth in rad/s, considered after shielding is applied

    lamps = Cylinder001                 // object with emissive texture used to represent lamp intensity graphically
    shutters = door                     // animation to manipulate shutters
    plants =                            // animation to represent plant growth graphically

    INPUT_RESOURCE
    {
      name = Ammonia
      rate = 0.00695                    // 37530 units required for crop
    }

    INPUT_RESOURCE
    {
      name = Water
      rate = 0.00023148                 // 1250 units required for crop
    }

    OUTPUT_RESOURCE
    {
      name = Oxygen
      rate = 0.00463                    // 25% of oxygen required by 1 crew member
    }

    OUTPUT_RESOURCE
    {
      name = WasteWater
      rate = 0.00023033
    }
  }

Waste? It does not.

Anyway, where did you see ANY plant that consumes feces or ammonia and DON'T consume CO₂? Parasites and saprophytes which cannot do photosyntesis are literally useless in greenhouse. 

And if you look into configs for "Ammonia" production - it's clearly NH₃ and NOT NH₄NO₃ - by simple reason that process does not use any oxygen.

I'm sure that we would all be happy for you to adjust the cfg as you see fit and post your suggestions creatively and constructively.  The mod author is obviously on an extended break and so won't be updating.

Peace.

[Dr. Jet]

14 hours ago, theJesuit said:

I'm sure that we would all be happy for you to adjust the cfg as you see fit and post your suggestions creatively and constructively.  The mod author is obviously on an extended break and so won't be updating.

Peace.

Well, I could do that... I mean, defining somewhat realistic greenhouse model... Just 2 questions need to be answered beforehead:

1. How resource units are calculated in Kerbalism? I can calculate proper numbers for different processes either in mols or in kilogramms, but units seem to have no constant rate of conversion. For water it's 0.25 u/kg and for food it's 1.77 u/kg, not speaking of other resources.
2. How to implement it if pull requests for Kerbalism just hang there untouched for months? 

[theJesuit]

1 hour ago, Dr. Jet said:

Well, I could do that... I mean, defining somewhat realistic greenhouse model... Just 2 questions need to be answered beforehead:

1. How resource units are calculated in Kerbalism? I can calculate proper numbers for different processes either in mols or in kilogramms, but units seem to have no constant rate of conversion. For water it's 0.25 u/kg and for food it's 1.77 u/kg, not speaking of other resources.
2. How to implement it if pull requests for Kerbalism just hang there untouched for months? 

I believe they are the same or similar values as TAC LS?  Not sure. 

I seem to remember that the values are taken from https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_support_system.  Incidentally that's the same as IFI LS as well.

The best bet would be to post the cfg code here in quotes.  I'm think of starting a Kerbalism update thread as there are a few things such as the patch for 1.3.1 and the radiation removal addition that would be nice to have in one place.  

Peace.

[HaullyGames]

Hi,

I have been trying to talk to @ShotgunNinja but no answer.

I have been working in Kerbalism-Continued on the last 2 months, I'm fixing a couple of bug in the new Communication System and then I will start to merge the pull requests.

I already included other functions as you can see in my old post.

If someone want to start a new project and coordinate it, please let me know that I want be part of the new team.

 

[Dr. Jet]

2 hours ago, theJesuit said:

I believe they are the same or similar values as TAC LS? 

Definitely not. TAC LS units were based on average daily consumption.

Also, kerbals are smaller than humans and their consumption is about 4 times less.

 

Some plant chemistry:

Generic green plant (or it's edible juicy fruit/vegetable) consists of 80-95% water (by mass). Ripe seeds (cereals) are only 10-15% water though.

After complete dehydration, both fruits/vegetables and seeds generally consist of:

Element	% by mass
Carbon	45
Oxygen	42
Hydrogen	6.5
Nitrogen	1.5
Minerals*	5

* - there is no particular reason to separate Na, K, P, S, etc. from each other. In KSP those are "Minerals" used by USI MKS.

Plant life cycle has two main processes: photosyntesis and "respiration".

Photosynthesis is generally consuming CO₂, H₂0 and sunlight to produce O₂ and some carbohydrates (usually C₅H₁₀O₅ or C₆H₁₂O₆).

"Respiration" is the opposite process - consumption of O₂ and carbohydrates and emitting CO₂ and water vapor into atmosphere.

Some human(oid) chemistry:

Feces are generally 75% water, urine is 95% water.

Daily human excretion in grams (not counting exhaling carbon with CO₂):

Element (g/day)	Urine	Feces	Total
Nitrogen	11.0	1.5	12.5
Carbon	6.6	21.4	30
Minerals *	20	?	?

Haven't found correct numbers for oxygen and hydrogen in solid residue. 

For kerbals those numbers should be 4 times lower due to their size. Or 16 times lower, considering 6-hour Kerbin day.

 

[theJesuit]

@Dr. Jet there is a profile patch somewhere for TACLS as well even on spacedock.  Have you looked at that for the greenhouse setting?

[theJesuit]

Also keen to know if people would be keen to see a 'boiloff' model for tanks esp. liquid fuel and oxidiser as part of kerbalism.  This wouldn't be necessarily shown in the game but just happen.  A module setup like Refridgeration could be added to slow down this loss of fuel.  Still thinking about it.

10 hours ago, HaullyGames said:

Hi,

I have been trying to talk to @ShotgunNinja but no answer.

I have been working in Kerbalism-Continued on the last 2 months, I'm fixing a couple of bug in the new Communication System and then I will start to merge the pull requests.

I already included other functions as you can see in my old post.

If someone want to start a new project and coordinate it, please let me know that I want be part of the new team.

 

Looks like you've already begun so congratulations! Are you just wanting to code or are you happy taking the resets and making a release?

Edited January 30, 2018 by theJesuit

[NFunky]

Hi,

I've been using this mod as one of my most important realism mods for quite some time now.  This is a great mod!

I have an issue that's driving me crazy though.  Whenever I have a vessel with comms orbiting another celestial body, I get kicked out of time warp every time that vessel goes behind the body and losses contact.  This is making it nearly impossible to do the Mars mission I'm working on, since there are down times of over a year.  It's killing me to only be able to get a couple hours of warp at a time.

Could you tell me what cfg to edit, and how, to either get rid of the "signal lost" messages, or to get rid of the time-warp kill command for messages in general.

Thank you!

[HaullyGames]

10 hours ago, theJesuit said:

Also keen to know if people would be keen to see a 'boiloff' model for tanks esp. liquid fuel and oxidiser as part of kerbalism.  This wouldn't be necessarily shown in the game but just happen.  A module setup like Refridgeration could be added to slow down this loss of fuel.  Still thinking about it.

Looks like you've already begun so congratulations! Are you just wanting to code or are you happy taking the resets and making a release?

Right now I'm doing the code and "trying to create a release", but I don't really like to coordinate releases. After I saw your post, I'm recreating my project and reorganizing it to make it easy for other members to get involved.

This is my hobby, I like to fix bugs, implement new functions and play a little bit.

Once this is more organized, I'll give you some feedback.

[Nathangun]

5 minutes ago, NFunky said:

Could you tell me what cfg to edit, and how, to either get rid of the "signal lost" messages, or to get rid of the time-warp kill command for messages in general.

Thank you!

 

When you click on a vessel in the kerbalism monitor, click on the cfg tab.

 

Once you click on that you'll see a list of notification tabs (like signal, batteries etc..) with a 'green tick' on the right column, click on the one you don't want to get alerts for.

[HaullyGames]

11 minutes ago, NFunky said:

Hi,

I've been using this mod as one of my most important realism mods for quite some time now.  This is a great mod!

I have an issue that's driving me crazy though.  Whenever I have a vessel with comms orbiting another celestial body, I get kicked out of time warp every time that vessel goes behind the body and losses contact.  This is making it nearly impossible to do the Mars mission I'm working on, since there are down times of over a year.  It's killing me to only be able to get a couple hours of warp at a time.

Could you tell me what cfg to edit, and how, to either get rid of the "signal lost" messages, or to get rid of the time-warp kill command for messages in general.

Thank you!

I think you are talking about Message System: CFG tab in your vessel panel(Kerbalism panel) and uncheck the alerts that you don't want be alerted, be careful after that, if something is wrong on your vessel, you won't know until he crew die.

[NFunky]

To both of you, a HUGE thank you!  I was unaware of this feature.

[theJesuit]

3 hours ago, HaullyGames said:

Right now I'm doing the code and "trying to create a release", but I don't really like to coordinate releases. After I saw your post, I'm recreating my project and reorganizing it to make it easy for other members to get involved.

This is my hobby, I like to fix bugs, implement new functions and play a little bit.

Once this is more organized, I'll give you some feedback.

I think I'd be able to coordinate.  It was kind of a plan to bring the patches together anyway and release an update on my Kerbalism profile (to be known as Simplex). 

 I am no coder, nor am I modeller - MM and kerbalism config's are pretty much at the limit of my ability.  I took a quick surface look at your github fork.  Very nice!

I guess I'll need a login to github to place suggestions and requests etc?

Peace.