The Grand KSP 1.1 Discussion Thread

[War Eagle 1]

1 minute ago, regex said:

I just design planes like I always have.  The new wheels have weight limits, I'm told, which might explain why explosions happen on take-off as the plane tilts and more force is placed on them.  The answer to that being to upgrade the gear to the next size or move them forward closer to the COM.  But my amphibian what I was flying around Kerbin during the pre-release loaded up just fine in 1.1 and took off from its unimproved, makeshift, non-existent runway without issue.  I crapped out a rover in ten minutes to hoover up KSC science and also had zero issues.

A small jet aircraft with a weight of 20t shouldnt cause wheels to explode though

1 minute ago, cubinator said:

Interesting. But how about the fixed landing gear? Are they useless now? I haven't been able to get them to cooperate.

I haven't used the fixed but from what I've heard they are experiencing similar issues

[HebaruSan]

Just now, Pthigrivi said:

Hey I couldn't find this in the key-bindings... what do you hit to see that cut away view?

It's not a key, it's a little radio button that appears next to the character portraits when you hover over them.

[regex]

1 minute ago, cubinator said:

Interesting. But how about the fixed landing gear? Are they useless now? I haven't been able to get them to cooperate.

I never use them.  Others seem to have figured out, in other threads, that the fixed gear require some babying.  Again, possibly due to weight limits (smacking hard, heavy craft, that sort of thing).

[Leeman]

Just now, War Eagle 1 said:

A small jet aircraft with a weight of 20t shouldnt cause wheels to explode though

What about posting your .craft file so people can help you? (I have a limited knowledge of planes so I won't be able to most likely)

[War Eagle 1]

1 minute ago, Leeman said:

What about posting your .craft file so people can help you? (I have a limited knowledge of planes so I won't be able to most likely)

You will need BDA and MTW if I do.

[MrWalrus]

15 minutes ago, War Eagle 1 said:

Its my back wheels that explode.
 

 

Maybe try putting the medium sized landing gear on the back instead of the small that worked for me. The small gear seems to break really easy.

[War Eagle 1]

1 minute ago, MrWalrus said:

Maybe try putting the medium sized landing gear on the back instead of the small that worked for me. The small gear seems to break really easy.

Tried it. It took the entire runway to take off….that is if it didn't wobble its way down the runway and explode in a fireball

[numerobis]

8 minutes ago, War Eagle 1 said:

A small jet aircraft with a weight of 20t

That doesn't seem so small to me -- it's like the Embraer commuter jet.

Edited April 21, 2016 by numerobis

[Motokid600]

Just now, War Eagle 1 said:

Tried it. It took the entire runway to take off….that is if it didn't wobble its way down the runway and explode in a fireball

Try posting some pics of the craft. Have you tried doubling up on gear to spread the load out over two pair instead of just one?

[Pthigrivi]

Ahh there it is. Thanks Hebaru!

[War Eagle 1]

1 minute ago, numerobis said:

 

That doesn't seem so small to me -- it's like the Embraer commuter jet.

 

 

Small enough?
it has 3 fuel tanks. The others are empty

1 minute ago, Motokid600 said:

Try posting some pics of the craft. Have you tried doubling up on gear to spread the load out over two pair instead of just one?

That i haven't.
Granted im also on a budget but I ll try that

[ghpstage]

When I was putting the fixed landing gear through their paces the biggest thing I got off the ground using the upgraded runway was this,

Spoiler

So while they are made of glass, and great care must be taken when using them, even the fixed gears are usable. Landing is by far the bigger problem, without draining pretty much every drop of fuel this thing would have no hope of managing it whatsoever, but it wasn't designed to do so as i'd given up trying to land anything heavy and just wanted to push the takeoff as far as it could go. Without a way to jettison fuel waiting for it to empty takes forever....

Provided you get it pointed straight, it'll take off at around 40-45m/s without any control input needed.

Edited April 21, 2016 by ghpstage

[regex]

Let's take a look at the ModuleWheelDamage for each landing gear:

	title = LY-01 Fixed Landing Gear
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleWheelDamage
		baseModuleIndex = 0
		
		stressTolerance = 2000
		impactTolerance = 1000
		deflectionMagnitude = 1
		deflectionSharpness = 2.0
		slipMagnitude = 1.5
		slipSharpness = 2.0
		explodeMultiplier = 1.0
	}

	title = LY-05 Steerable Landing Gear
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleWheelDamage
		baseModuleIndex = 0
		
		stressTolerance = 2000
		impactTolerance = 1000
		deflectionMagnitude = 1
		deflectionSharpness = 2.0
		slipMagnitude = 1.5
		slipSharpness = 2.0
		explodeMultiplier = 1.0
	}

	title = LY-10 Small Landing Gear
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleWheelDamage
		baseModuleIndex = 0
		
		stressTolerance = 5600
		impactTolerance = 2000
		deflectionMagnitude = 10
		deflectionSharpness = 2.0
		slipMagnitude = 15
		slipSharpness = 2.0
		explodeMultiplier = 1.0
	}	

	title = LY-35 Medium Landing Gear
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleWheelDamage
		baseModuleIndex = 0
		
		stressTolerance = 9000
		impactTolerance = 3000
		deflectionMagnitude = 10
		deflectionSharpness = 2.0
		slipMagnitude = 15
		slipSharpness = 2.0
		explodeMultiplier = 1.0
	}

	title = LY-60 Large Landing Gear
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleWheelDamage
		baseModuleIndex = 0
		
		stressTolerance = 18000
		impactTolerance = 4800
		deflectionMagnitude = 10
		deflectionSharpness = 2.0
		slipMagnitude = 15
		slipSharpness = 2.0
		explodeMultiplier = 1.0
	}

	title = LY-99 Extra Large Landing Gear
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleWheelDamage
		baseModuleIndex = 0
		
		stressTolerance = 55000
		impactTolerance = 13000
		deflectionMagnitude = 10
		deflectionSharpness = 2.0
		slipMagnitude = 15
		slipSharpness = 2.0
		explodeMultiplier = 1.0
	}

I don't have a reference for this but I'm guessing the stressTolerance and impactTolerance are in kilograms force or something?  Judging by that a 20-ton craft should be using the large gear, although medium might work if the pilot were careful.

Edited April 21, 2016 by regex

[klesh]

That Phantom, to me, is a medium landing gear plane.

I've had not much in the way of problems making aircraft in 1.1. 

Edited April 21, 2016 by klesh

[LameLefty]

Not to my knowledge. The game renders through OpenGL, like nearly all OS X graphical applications. 

[War Eagle 1]

Just now, regex said:

Let's take a look at the ModuleWheelDamage for each landing gear:

	title = LY-01 Fixed Landing Gear
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleWheelDamage
		baseModuleIndex = 0
		
		stressTolerance = 2000
		impactTolerance = 1000
		deflectionMagnitude = 1
		deflectionSharpness = 2.0
		slipMagnitude = 1.5
		slipSharpness = 2.0
		explodeMultiplier = 1.0
	}

	title = LY-05 Steerable Landing Gear
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleWheelDamage
		baseModuleIndex = 0
		
		stressTolerance = 2000
		impactTolerance = 1000
		deflectionMagnitude = 1
		deflectionSharpness = 2.0
		slipMagnitude = 1.5
		slipSharpness = 2.0
		explodeMultiplier = 1.0
	}

	title = LY-10 Small Landing Gear
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleWheelDamage
		baseModuleIndex = 0
		
		stressTolerance = 5600
		impactTolerance = 2000
		deflectionMagnitude = 10
		deflectionSharpness = 2.0
		slipMagnitude = 15
		slipSharpness = 2.0
		explodeMultiplier = 1.0
	}	

	title = LY-35 Medium Landing Gear
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleWheelDamage
		baseModuleIndex = 0
		
		stressTolerance = 9000
		impactTolerance = 3000
		deflectionMagnitude = 10
		deflectionSharpness = 2.0
		slipMagnitude = 15
		slipSharpness = 2.0
		explodeMultiplier = 1.0
	}

	title = LY-60 Large Landing Gear
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleWheelDamage
		baseModuleIndex = 0
		
		stressTolerance = 18000
		impactTolerance = 4800
		deflectionMagnitude = 10
		deflectionSharpness = 2.0
		slipMagnitude = 15
		slipSharpness = 2.0
		explodeMultiplier = 1.0
	}

	title = LY-99 Extra Large Landing Gear
	MODULE
	{
		name = ModuleWheelDamage
		baseModuleIndex = 0
		
		stressTolerance = 55000
		impactTolerance = 13000
		deflectionMagnitude = 10
		deflectionSharpness = 2.0
		slipMagnitude = 15
		slipSharpness = 2.0
		explodeMultiplier = 1.0
	}

I don't have a reference for this but I'm guessing the stressTolerance and impactTolerance are in kilograms force or something?  Judging by that a 20-ton craft should be using the large gear.

So your saying a fighter jet should be using cargo plane size wheels?

[regex]

1 minute ago, War Eagle 1 said:

So your saying a fighter jet should be using cargo plane size wheels?

If it's heavy enough.

I mean, or you could just, you know, be realllllllly careful.

Edited April 21, 2016 by regex

[Green Baron]

Pros:

it's 1.1

has new dialogues and things

tries to be smart offering contracts

came surprisingly suddenly

Cons (after 2 hours, linux):

hangs from time to time during scene change. Was just about to send a kill when i realized ksp was just contemplative and still running.

offers salvage contracts with parts that have no hatch (habtech mod). Pls. let me suggest to add a can-opener, can be an old-fashioned manual one ... left handed version pls. How about using pods for the candidates of rescue missions ?

Other:

seems on the first glance not to be faster than earlier versions, but haven't tried large contraptions yet.

edit: good idea is to switch off suspension on landing legs ;-)

 

This is very cursory superficial

Edited April 21, 2016 by Green Baron

[regex]

Seriously though, different wheels have different jobs.  Would you expect a 20 ton craft to rest on those tiny little fixed wheels?  Same goes as you scale up.  Either you design wheel placement to handle stresses properly or you play to the wheel's mass limits.

[MrWalrus]

I assume you tried moving the rear wheels forward ( I know you have weapons there but landing gear is more important) a little that was something that helped me get in the air at a lower velocity making it easier to control on the runway.

[Superfluous J]

6 minutes ago, War Eagle 1 said:

 

 

Small enough?
it has 3 fuel tanks. The others are empty

I'm personally thinking that a jet like that should not have a Cessna's landing gear.

[FungusForge]

1 hour ago, War Eagle 1 said:

1.1
Pros: 
Better graphics
faster loading
*Is truly amazing, even on potatoes. My potato that couldn't even stand 200 parts now handles over 800 easily. On higher settings.

Cons:
Wheels can't be clipped -Honestly, I dislike wheel clipping. Its kinda cheaty.
Wheels can't be angled of center -Yes the wheels do need work though. However, I can stand rovers without using KF now.
Landing wheels break far to easily -I haven't had an issue with this yet, and I've been landing 93-ton (Dry Mass mind you) shuttles.
*Landing legs are awkward as hell to place.

1.0.5
Pros
Nothing is broken

Cons
Less impressive graphics
Slower load time
*Doesn't exactly perform on potatoes
 

I have some revisions for your post my friend.

Edit: That shuttle I mentioned. Just tried landing it basically full mass (193t). The wings the wheels were attached to gave way before the wheels themselves did.

Edited April 21, 2016 by FungusForge

[DoctorDavinci]

From what I recall concerning wheels and landing on dirt runways or even grass IRL, designers of aircraft and pilots themselves will tell you that large tires and low air pressure within the tires are what allow planes to land on these surfaces. (I am a pilot)

We all agree the wheels need work, however we all need to realize that we're beating a dead horse and talking in circles whilst discussing this.

My suggestion for fixing the wheel mechanics is perhaps Squad could implement something like what is used IRL where the tire pressure can be adjusted to accommodate for the type of surface you are trying to take off from or land on. Early in the tech tree you would have the ability to lower or raise the pressure in the tires in the SPH but not whilst flying or in the air ... This would change as you advance in the tech tree so as to provide the ability to adjust the tire pressure in flight to accommodate for landing surfaces.

Planes IRL already do this depending on the type of landing gear on said aircraft and how advanced the technology is within the aircraft in question ... trying to land a 20 ton or even a 5 ton aircraft on a bumpy surface while using wheels that are only suitable for a Cessna is, in my opinion, asking for 'splosions

[regex]

I've been digging into the ModuleWheelDamage code and I can confirm that your wheels are exploding because of downforce.  You either need wheels with greater impactTolerance (which is what tolerates downforce) or you need to reduce the potential downforce on the wheels.

[GoSlash27]

All,

 I think I have a fix for this.

Looking for volunteers to help test it out!

-Slashy

Edited April 21, 2016 by GoSlash27