Using NERV engines in 1.1

[Deus Zed Machina]

Hi all, I've been recently attempting to build a reusable NERV-driven interplanetary spacecraft in sandbox mode, but I've been having trouble recently. I've been playing KSP since 0.22 and I'd like to think I'm at least decent at building rockets, but I can't seem to figure out how to make my spacecraft look aesthetically pleasing while also using only liquid fuel. I'm going for the sort of aesthetic one finds in actual NASA design docs and really hard sci-fi stuff, like the ships listed here. I'd really prefer not to install mods (mostly because setting up CKAN on OSX is a huge pain in the neck), so I've been fiddling with the stock LF tanks. The closest I got was stacking a bunch of MK1 tanks on top of each other and sticking them on the side of the Kerbodyne SRB (solid boosters made really sturdy structural elements when they're drained of fuel) with six-way symmetry turned on, but that assembly proved to be quite unstable even after reinforcing the whole assembly with struts, and everything I design with the MK3 parts ends up looking somewhat boring for my tastes. :/ 

Any suggestions?

[N_Danger]

Experiment with the rotation and movement tools. And maybe a little clipping too. This was done using 3 MK 2 LF tanks

 

[bewing]

Yeah, it makes me a little sad that there are no 2.5 meter LF-only parts. I like NERV tech, so I get my nukes as early as I can afford them. But that means that I make all my designs with MK1-sized stuff. Long and skinny. Drill:

Spoiler

Deorbiter:

Spoiler

My tourist bus looks a lot like the above drill -- with the ore compartments replaced with mk1 crew cabins.

I suppose that for the aesthetic you want, you could attach radial MK0 tanks?

 

 

Edited May 8, 2016 by bewing

[Champ]

Totally off-topic, but, i thought it was strange that the so-called "realistic design" on the site you linked has docking ports on the rotating parts... It also has one on the non-rotating part, but the 2 docking ports on rotating parts are just dead weight. This seams highly unrealistic to me, but i am no expert. Is there an explanation to this ?

[Venusgate]

my suggestion would either be: get over your mod squeamishness and get procedural parts,

or,

put mk1 tanks on a tri-coupler.

[Foxster]

I'm more into functional than aesthetics but here's a couple of ideas...

[Deus Zed Machina]

Thanks for the responses, everyone! I understand this isn't exactly a conventional question, and I didn't expect to get this many replies.

[fourfa]

15 hours ago, Deus Zed Machina said:

I'd really prefer not to install mods (mostly because setting up CKAN on OSX is a huge pain in the neck)

Any suggestions?

Yes, my suggestion is forget about CKAN (agreed it's a pain in the neck on OSX) and just install one mod manually:

With this single mod, you can switch any tank in the game to be liquid fuel only.  Then creatively and aesthetically, building with NERVs will be no different than any other ship.  It's written by Porkjet (currently a KSP dev) and runs clean as stock.

Otherwise, if you're really committed to 100% stock regardless of CKAN, you'll end up with lots of ships that look like Foxster's.  That's about as efficient as you can get, and you just have to accept that they're going to be ugly.

[Snark]

1 hour ago, Deus Zed Machina said:

Thanks for the responses, everyone! I understand this isn't exactly a conventional question, and I didn't expect to get this many replies.

No, it's not only a perfectly reasonable question, it's a common one.    The lack of a decent selection of LF-only tanks that are rocket-friendly (not spaceplane) has been a glaring hole in the game ever since the LV-N was changed to be LF-only.

Frankly, I'd suggest just getting a mod.  Note that you do not have to use CKAN.  Just find a mod that you like and install it manually, it's pretty easy.  It means you won't get automatic updates... but if you get a version that works, why update beyond that? 

It's also a thing that you can actually mod yourself, if you install ModuleManager.  A simple text file named with the ".cfg" extension, located anywhere in your GameData folder, will do the trick.  I'd suggest making a folder called "000_Zed" (the 000 to make it come alphabetically first, for ease in finding it) to stash your stuff.

Here's an example of a piece of config that will create a liquid-fuel-only version of the 16-ton LFO tank for you:

+PART[fuelTank1-2]
{
	@name = fuelTank1-2_lf_only
	@title = X200-32-LF Liquid Fuel Tank 
	@description = A liquid-fuel-only variant of the popular Rockomax X200-32 Fuel Tank.

	@RESOURCE[LiquidFuel]
	{
		@amount = 3200
		@maxAmount = 3200
	}
	-RESOURCE[Oxidizer] {}
}

...it'll look the same as the other one in the parts tab and on your rocket, but other than that wart, should work fine.

More ModuleManager info is available here and here if you're interested, but you get the idea-- if you take the above and just make the necessary changes to the names and descriptions, you can easily clone any of the stock tanks to LF-only versions.

 

[Srpadget]

If messing with Module Manager, .config files, etc. is too intimidating, I have a solution similar to Snark's, but which only requires editing a .craft file in a text editor. This may be less intimidating for some folk (though it's not QUITE as elegant as Snark's .config edit for reasons I mention below):

Design your ship in the VAB, using the LF/O tank(s) that you'd like an LF-only version of.  Save the ship, and quit out of KSP.

Find your ship's .craft file, and open it in a text editor.  Search for the LF/O fuel tank you'd like to change to LF-only.  In the part description, find:

    RESOURCE
    {
        name = LiquidFuel
        amount = xxxx
        maxAmount = xxxx

and:

    RESOURCE
    {
        name = Oxidizer
        amount = yyyy
        maxAmount = yyyy

Change the 'amount' and 'maxAmount' values for LiquidFuel to xxxx+yyyy.  Change those same values for Oxidizer to 0.  (Do not remove the Oxidizer resource section completely.  If you do this, KSP will think it's a corrupt file and will helpfully "fix" it for you.)

Repeat the above as necessary for any other LF/O -> LF-only tank conversions desired.  Save the edited .craft file.

Restart KSP, go to the VAB, and load your ship.  Your tanks will, as with Snark's method, look exactly like the LF/O tank, but they work as LF-only tanks.

I mentioned this is not as elegant as Snark's solution.  There are two drawbacks: 

1)  These tanks do still generate a line for Oxidizer in resource displays.  You can't DO anything with it, but it's there and cluttering up your displays.

2)  You will have to go through this process every time you design a new NERV-powered ship using rocket-based fuel tanks.

Me, I recommend going the Module Manager route that Snark laid out above. (Or a mod with stockalike LF-only tanks, which is functionally the same thing really.)  I only offer this as a potentially less intimidating option.

 

[Deus Zed Machina]

2 hours ago, Snark said:

[snip]

1 hour ago, Srpadget said:

[snip]

Yeah, that could work. The whole CKAN thing is really the only reason I haven't been playing with mods. I use it on my PC, which is currently in the repair shop, and I guess I've been relying on it for so long it didn't occur to me that I could manually install them.