[Minimum KSP version - 1.11] Kerbal Attachment System (KAS) v1.12

[IgorZ]

5 hours ago, KMenTaL989 said:

Hi guys... i have a problem...

I made a truck to start a little lab with surface experiment pack experiments near the ksc. I go to the location, get the items from the inventary, but within 5 minute since i start to build my lab, aka placing items of surface experiment pack, my stations (i have two, and the two of them crash, not one only) crash into kerbin...

then i gave up on the truck, so decided to stop the wobbling on one of my space stations with some struts. i go there, perform the eva, mount the struts. then i hear a strange noise and notice the orange tank fell apart from my station and was floating in orbit near my station.

i thought maybe i touched something, reloaded and tryied again... now everything goes well. i go back to the ksc. but when i go to the tracking station i see a space station debree... again what? O.o the orange tank fell apart again.... :|

 

here a screen of my station https://ibb.co/kjqT9v

First of all, the layout of the base is doomed to witness the Kraken. It's heavily imbalanced, so what you see is inevitable in SAS mode. Disable SAS and the base will stop oscillating, but of course you'll get troubles with the base orientation. As for KAS, I don't see any KAS part on the design. Where did you use and what are the parts?

[KMenTaL989]

10 hours ago, IgorZ said:

First of all, the layout of the base is doomed to witness the Kraken. It's heavily imbalanced, so what you see is inevitable in SAS mode. Disable SAS and the base will stop oscillating, but of course you'll get troubles with the base orientation. As for KAS, I don't see any KAS part on the design. Where did you use and what are the parts?

yeah sorry... wrong screenshot xD

https://ibb.co/c5Oc2F

as you can see i attached a strut from the cyclotron to the lab. then i attached with the same kind of strut the orange tank to the lab and the lab to the living module also but i have no screenshot of that.

i got the wobbling problem almost solved by disabling all the reaction wheels but one. what i seem to not be able to do is use any sort of KAS parts in any ship/part of the world, with using KAS part resulting in probe/station deorbit or parts falling apart from ships/stations/probes. :|

[IgorZ]

4 hours ago, KMenTaL989 said:

yeah sorry... wrong screenshot xD

https://ibb.co/c5Oc2F

as you can see i attached a strut from the cyclotron to the lab. then i attached with the same kind of strut the orange tank to the lab and the lab to the living module also but i have no screenshot of that.

i got the wobbling problem almost solved by disabling all the reaction wheels but one. what i seem to not be able to do is use any sort of KAS parts in any ship/part of the world, with using KAS part resulting in probe/station deorbit or parts falling apart from ships/stations/probes. :|

Well, it's a very unusual symptom. We all know that in order to deorbit an object for the orbit of Kerbin, a significant impulse is needed. I have no idea how KAS or KIS, or any other structural enhancement mod can do it. Let's try seeing your logs. Please, reproduce the situation and then grab and share the logs.

[Kurld]

I have an issue where the EVA struts that I connected have disappeared visually. I strutted together two parts of a vessel that were docked together. It worked great. Now the struts have disappeared.  I tried to undock the two vessels (as a test.. I don't actually want to) and they won't budge, so it seems the struts are still there. I just can't see them.

Is this a known thing, or if not, what do you need from my end to help solve?

[KMenTaL989]

5 hours ago, IgorZ said:

Well, it's a very unusual symptom. We all know that in order to deorbit an object for the orbit of Kerbin, a significant impulse is needed. I have no idea how KAS or KIS, or any other structural enhancement mod can do it. Let's try seeing your logs. Please, reproduce the situation and then grab and share the logs.

ok... i attached the strut then played some random kerbal things while waiting for the falling apart to happen... it happened (but i don't know exactly when)... i also tryied to play with surface experiment pack but this time stations and probes didn't fall on kerbin

 

here's the log file http://www.filedropper.com/ksp_1

[IgorZ]

7 hours ago, Kurld said:

I have an issue where the EVA struts that I connected have disappeared visually. I strutted together two parts of a vessel that were docked together. It worked great. Now the struts have disappeared.  I tried to undock the two vessels (as a test.. I don't actually want to) and they won't budge, so it seems the struts are still there. I just can't see them.

Is this a known thing, or if not, what do you need from my end to help solve?

Please, grab the logs. It seems to me as a mods conflict issue.

5 hours ago, KMenTaL989 said:

ok... i attached the strut then played some random kerbal things while waiting for the falling apart to happen... it happened (but i don't know exactly when)... i also tryied to play with surface experiment pack but this time stations and probes didn't fall on kerbin

 

here's the log file http://www.filedropper.com/ksp_1

Well, the file has a lot of spam and even some errors. However, I didn't find any obvious clues of what has happen. In the last load of the station it was "debris", and sure enough, the struts have disconnected from the decoupled parts. The KAS strut can only connect two parts of the same vessel, if for any reason this condition is not met, the struct automatically disconnects (and this is why the struts disconnect on staging or undock). Long story short, we need to figure out why the station is get destroyed. For now there are now evidences that KAS is involved. Try doing all the stuff you did in this save file but without interacting with the struts. Let's see if station will get destroyed in this case.

Edited August 17, 2017 by IgorZ

[Kurld]

Will do when I get back to that machine. I am wondering if it is Tweakscale.. the part one end of the struts are attached to has been scaled up quite a bit, IIRC. I play with what feels like a lot of mods, so I guess it could be anything. I had Recoupler briefly, but while I had it installed, the Kraken would inevitably show up when I started attaching struts. This ship was built/deployed/strutted after I removed that mod, I think.

I'll get the logs up on dropbox or something when I can.  Thanks.

 

More info: yesterday before I quit, I went on EVA and it acted like it was not strutted... in that I was able to link the struts again.

[Kurld]

The log file is at https://www.dropbox.com/s/db8uu7hdm1vip0b/KSP.log?dl=0

Thanks!

 

[KMenTaL989]

16 hours ago, IgorZ said:

Please, grab the logs. It seems to me as a mods conflict issue.

Well, the file has a lot of spam and even some errors. However, I didn't find any obvious clues of what has happen. In the last load of the station it was "debris", and sure enough, the struts have disconnected from the decoupled parts. The KAS strut can only connect two parts of the same vessel, if for any reason this condition is not met, the struct automatically disconnects (and this is why the struts disconnect on staging or undock). Long story short, we need to figure out why the station is get destroyed. For now there are now evidences that KAS is involved. Try doing all the stuff you did in this save file but without interacting with the struts. Let's see if station will get destroyed in this case.

what do you mean with "without interacting with the struts"?

 

edit: i just found this... seems related https://github.com/ihsoft/KAS/issues/74

Edited August 17, 2017 by KMenTaL989

[Kurld]

After posting the log file I loaded my game up again. Struts were still AWOL. I messed around for a bit and decided to load up a save I made earlier, and the struts were there. I want to say this save was made when they were invisible, but it could have been made after the second time I attached them.

They stuck around the entire session. I'll try to check in on that vessel and note if they ever disappear again.

Another sort of weird thing is happening in that I am now missing inventory access from various ships. For example, one of the Mk2 lander cans that make up my space station no longer has a button for "Seat 0 Inventory" or "Seat 1 Inventory".  

I want to say that I've lost actual inventory (science experiments from the BDB SEP mod and other stuff) when arriving on the surface of Mun or Minmus. I am rather inattentive at times, so it is also at least as likely to be ME being the problem there.

 

[ExplorerKlatt]

@Kurld do you have crew in the seats that are missing inventory?  The inventory that shows up in the VAB as "seat x inventory" is for a Kerbal. If you put stuff in that inventory then do not put a Kerbal in that seat, the stuff will disappear. This is not a bug it is by design. 

[Kurld]

@ExplorerKlatt that's probably it.

More info on the weird strut behavior:

When I loaded my game today, the struts were still there. I undocked my fuel tug/tank vessel from my space station. The tug and tank are the ones strutted together with EVA struts. Did a quicksave in prep for descent to the surface of Minmus.  As I was futzing around on the surface, adjusting my landing spot to get a little closer to my mining operation, I fumble fingered and needed to hit F9.  Upon the reload the struts had disappeared.

After filling the tank with fuel, I returned to the orbital station. Did a save. Went to the space center screen and loaded that save. When it reloaded the struts had re-appeared.

 

[IgorZ]

On 8/17/2017 at 2:22 PM, KMenTaL989 said:

what do you mean with "without interacting with the struts"?

edit: i just found this... seems related https://github.com/ihsoft/KAS/issues/74

I mean "don't attach the struts". And, no, the issue you've referred doesn't seem related. It states about the crazy vibrations that destroys the vessel. It's a well known issue of the game, which is not related to KAS.

On 8/17/2017 at 0:51 PM, Kurld said:

The log file is at https://www.dropbox.com/s/db8uu7hdm1vip0b/KSP.log?dl=0

Thanks!

I see some states are not restored due to the target parts are not found. It can be problem or can be a normal behavior. To figure out which one is it, I need a save file which I can load and debug. Can you make the one using only the stock parts?

[Kurld]

4 hours ago, IgorZ said:

I see some states are not restored due to the target parts are not found. It can be problem or can be a normal behavior. To figure out which one is it, I need a save file which I can load and debug. Can you make the one using only the stock parts?

If you're asking me, re: disappearing struts: I'll try to make something up in a sandbox game using only stock parts and see if I can replicate the issue.

[donoya]

I have a few questions regarding the KAS dlls. Is it possible to make a part with this that places parts from connected inventories? If so, how? Also, is it possible to add parts to KIS inventories with another part? And if so, how? If any of these are possible with the KAS/KIS dlls, I'm considering using them to make a factory building mod (since no-one else seems to want to do it).

[Aelfhe1m]

5 hours ago, donoya said:

Also, is it possible to add parts to KIS inventories with another part? And if so, how?

Yes - using the KIS API. For example OSE Workshop creates new parts and adds them into inventories at https://github.com/Aelfhe1m/Workshop/blob/master/Source/Workshop/Workshop/OSEModuleWorkshop.cs#L514

5 hours ago, donoya said:

Is it possible to make a part with this that places parts from connected inventories?

EVA Kerbals can drag parts from any open inventory within range (or between inventories). Or are you imagining some sort of robot device that pulls parts from inventory then deposits them somewhere in a specific pattern?

[donoya]

The latter.

[cgwhite4]

It had been a while since the Kraken had caused me any trouble at my bases with several landers attached by KAS winches.  I had changed some procedures I use to reduce the chance of a Kraken.  When a vessel I was attempting to send to Laythe had problems with wobbling throwing my maneuvers off, I got Kerbal Joint Reinforcement to fix that issue, and that started a long run in which I did not encounter a Kraken.  Then, just a little bit ago at my base on Vall, where I have two landers attached with a KAS winch connection, as I was attempting to bring in a third lander to connect to those two, as I came within 200m of them, they were hit by the Kraken, promptly resulting in Rapid Unscheduled Disassembly.  I find this strange because my base on Pol has seen a lot more activity than that on Vall, and because of an issue affecting Extraplanetary Launchpad's recycling system, I have lots of junk scattered about my base on Pol.  I have even experienced lag while bringing vessels within a couple kilometers of that base, but it is Vall and not Pol where I end up experiencing the first Kraken after having installed KJR, which I did prior to KSP 1.3.

I believe this is the first time I have made a winch connection where both the winch and the connector port were created after 1.3 came out.  While I have created a few vessels with winches since KSP 1.3 came out (and after updating KAS and KJR to their current versions), all connections they were involved in were to pre-existing connector ports, and none of them gave me any trouble (one of them was even on Pol at the base with lots of junk near it).  This would in fact be the first connector port not from KAS Beta to which a winch was attached since KSP 1.3 came out.  My current mods are MM 2.8.1, KAS 0.6.3, KAS Beta/New 1.0 (most recent patch), EL 5.8.2, and KJR 3.3.3.  Also, this was not the first time I had revisited my base on Vall since making the connection in question.  When my third lander arrived in orbit above Vall, it was night at my base, so I went there to timewarp forward until there was sufficient light at my base for a safe landing.  There did not appear to be any problems at that time.  Hopefully, I can fix with an SFS-edit similar to those I used to use in just this kind of situation.

Edit: Usual SFS-edit for clearing a Kraken did its job, but still wondering why it happened in the first place after so long without one.

Edited August 28, 2017 by cgwhite4
update

[Brigadier]

7 hours ago, cgwhite4 said:

Edit: Usual SFS-edit for clearing a Kraken did its job, but still wondering why it happened in the first place after so long without one.

I'm curious, what do you mean by "Usual SFS-edit for clearing a Kraken..."?  What do you do the SFS file?

[cgwhite4]

To purge Krakens afflicting a base consisting of multiple modules connected by KAS winches, I replace the afflicted base in the SFS file with an copy of itself from an older SFS file, preferably the one for the most recent save in which the afflicted base is known to be good.  Often times, I notice that the orbit block has changed since the last known good state.  Sometimes, I only have to replace the orbit block, but if this does not work, the entire base must be replaced.  When replacing the entire base, I must be careful to take into account any crew changes I made since that time, and make the necessary adjustments to compensate for this.  I also need to take into account any changes in resource levels that have occurred.  Typically, I do not have to worry about this because I usually keep my tanks full at my bases (except for the Extraplanetary Launchpads resource ScrapMetal, which I keep empty), and I do not bother with electricity levels when making these changes.

Kerbal Joint Reinforcement seems to be very good at preventing Krakens at bases containing KAS-winches: since getting KJR, I have not had to do this again up until this incident.  Please note, however, that the above procedure should not be attempted if you have made or broken any KAS winch connections for the base experiencing the Kraken since the save whose SFS file you are wanting to use to fix your vessel, unless you have reverted these changes.  I have accidentally "deleted" an EL-supported recycler rover once by making this mistake after having forgotten I had attached it to my base since the known good save, and had to recover the rover from an SFS file where it was detached.  Thankfully, said rover was unmanned.  Also, if your base contains the 3-man command module and you have moved any crew into it, this procedure can also cause an issue where the Kerbal you SFS-edit into the 3-man command module will fail to be assigned a specific seat and will thus not appear in the portraits at the lower right, making him or her unselectable.  If you have an empty seat in another module, it is better to put that Kerbal in the empty seat and then transfer him or her into the desired seat in-game.   Another possibility would be an EVA if conditions are right for it.

[Brigadier]

11 minutes ago, cgwhite4 said:

To purge Krakens afflicting a base consisting of multiple modules connected by KAS winches, I replace the afflicted base in the SFS file with an copy of itself from an older SFS file...

Thank you.  Very helpful.

[srgpea]

the winch connector does not appear, when I'm in eva mode it will not let me put the accessories, please help .

the kps version is 1.3.0.1804 and the kas version is 

[IgorZ]

15 hours ago, srgpea said:

the winch connector does not appear, when I'm in eva mode it will not let me put the accessories, please help .

the kps version is 1.3.0.1804 and the kas version is 

What do you mean by "winch connector"? If it's the thing that hangs on the winch's cable, then you cannot control it separately. If you need to grab the connector, you need to either use the winch menu "Grab connector", or press key "Y" when staying nearby to the released connector (e.g. when it lays on the ground). A screenshot would be helpful.

[MalkContent]

Hello. Is there a way to attach heavy parts to eachother in space without using a ton of kerbals? Like pulling them together with winches or docking them with Clamp-o-Tron Sr. and removing the clamp-o-trons?

I don't wanna use the clamp-o-trons because the craft is getting to wobbly :c

[DStaal]

1 hour ago, MalkContent said:

Hello. Is there a way to attach heavy parts to eachother in space without using a ton of kerbals? Like pulling them together with winches or docking them with Clamp-o-Tron Sr. and removing the clamp-o-trons?

I don't wanna use the clamp-o-trons because the craft is getting to wobbly :c

• You can increase the amount a single Kerbal can lift in the config file.
• You can use a parts pack that includes lifting parts.  Konstruction (part of MKS at this point, I believe...) and the Orbital Utility Vehicle (last updated ages ago) are the two packs that I believe have some.
• You can use a pack that allows welding.  Konstruction again has welding versions of the clamp-o-trons, where they are removed afterwards.  DSEV also had a version for a while, though I'm not sure they are currently working.
• You can tether things together using KAS struts to help.
• You can tweak the KSP settings to keep a smaller physics delta, which will also help.

That covers the options I can think of.    All have some upsides and downsides.  If you're using MKS already, then Konstruction parts are the way to go.