They had ONE job... ಠ_ಠ

[Liquid]

After looking forward to the PS4 version for literally years, I can't believe how disappointing and utterly botched the release seems to be.

1: I'm in the EU, my American friends are playing the game since yesterday. Why can't I play it too? When can I play it?

I have my suspicions about what happened and know it may be out of both Squad's and Flying Tiger's hands, but if that's the case, you need to throw Sony under the bus and state that explicitly. Staying hush-hush about who's responsible for marginalizing an entire continent as second-class citizens isn't good PR, it's the kind of behaviour that people expect from companies like EA. Some things are out of your control, simply telling the fan-base what happened is not one of those things.

I think a small discount to European PS4 customers (when it eventually does release here) is in order, as a show of good faith.

 

2: Where are all the control options?

Everyone knew the control scheme needed special attention if the game was to work on consoles. It's easy to understand that designing such a complex control scheme on a limited input device is hard to get right, but with this in mind, it's also glaringly obvious that the only control scheme that can work for everyone is a user-configurable one. That means custom bindings and some decent options for tweaking the controls. Fortunately this is already there and only needs adapting to different platforms, unfortunately neither Squad nor Flying Tiger want to go with the obvious no-brainer that works for everyone.

The game doesn't even allow inverting the vertical camera control for god's sake! How does anyone work in the games industry and not know that some people are "invertees" who will never be able to comfortably enjoy a game that doesn't allow this incredibly basic feature? Rather than leave it there and adapt it to the console's input APIs, Flying Tiger instead opted to remove it from the existing code entirely, while wasting everyone's time with pointless gimmicks like the accelerometer controlled mouse cursor. "I wish I could control this cursor by tilting a gamepad" - said nobody ever.

And did nobody at Flying Tiger get the memo that both the Xbox One and PS4 allow full keyboard/mouse support? Sure, the game must work with a controller to be on consoles, but why does that mean they had to go and remove the already existing/supported KB/M input? The platforms support it, the bindings are already designed and chosen, why remove the only thing that gives players an alternative to the clumsy gamepad layout?

None of these control issues are a "console thing" as plenty of "PCMR" types would love to paint this as... this is squarely a KSP thing. Several console games support custom button bindings, several of them support keyboard and mouse, several of those are on built on the same Unity engine, all of them support inverted camera controls. There's no real excuse here, the companies involved simply didn't care enough about the game to do the most basic, important part of it any justice.

 

3: When can console players expect to be able to enjoy this game with reasonable controls?

Are they forever doomed to be stuck with the biggest turkey of a control scheme ever, while nobody at Squad or Flying Tiger will even talk about it (ironically for fear of bad PR)? Is there any plans to do what was obviously the right move from the beginning (just leave the existing controls the hell alone and add to them to properly support controllers)?

 

Myself and a few friends really want to play this on PS4, but can't justify throwing money down the toilet until we can be guaranteed that we can actually control the damn thing comfortably. C'mon guys, these are amateur-hour, rookie mistakes anyone could see coming a mile away. Making those mistakes is bad enough, but don't be that company who sneers at what the fanbase wants, never even acknowledging any controversy.

Edited July 14, 2016 by Liquid

[Gaarst]

Considering how well Squad handled 1.1 release, this doesn't surprise me that much. (FT did the porting not Squad, I know; but I guess Squad did have a look at their own ported game before releasing it)

Now, I like to hope that these are mistakes that were caused by a rushed release schedule, meaning that they will get fixed in the (hopefully near) future; won't make up for the failed release though.

For the Eu release, that's just bad PR/communication and the game will eventually be released for us folks on the right side of the pond. For 2 and 3 (which seem linked) that might be trickier and will depend on Squad and FT's "degree of caring about their community" and on the simplicity to expand the current control scheme (to add custom configs and KB/M support). Wait 'n' see is pretty much all we can do right now.

[steuben]

As you're rhyming it off it really doesn't sound like one job. It actually sounds like many jobs. Each with their own trick, traps, and difficulties. But then I'm just a player and don't have much familiarity with such things as coding, software distribution, QA, project planning, platform porting, and all that mumbo jumbo. So I could be wrong. Proximity and simplicity of solution are inversely proportion and all that.

But on point 3 one thing does stick out. Allow and have are two separate points on the equipment spectrum. One is necessary but not sufficient for the other. Which it is shall be left as an exercise for the reader. 

 

 

[Ultimate Steve]

The big one: SQUAD is not a video game company. They are a marketing company. They are shifting away from marketing, but KSP is their first game. So, nobody gets things perfect on their first try. Would it be better if KSP had never been made?

[EliasDanger]

And here i thought it was just us Americans who always felt entitled. 

[Alshain]

Games come out at different times in different regions all the time.  It's standard operating practice.  Get used to, it will be happening all your life.

[Liquid]

4 hours ago, steuben said:

"As you're rhyming it off it really doesn't sound like one job. It actually sounds like many jobs. Each with their own trick, traps, and difficulties. But then I'm just a player and don't have much familiarity with such things as coding, software distribution, QA, project planning, platform porting, and all that mumbo jumbo. So I could be wrong."

Excuse the bluntness but you are wrong. It's easier to build off existing code than to wipe everything clean and start again. Part of the reason to use an game engine (like Unity) at all, is to abstract away the differences between the platforms, making it easier to port code/features cross-platform. Rebuilding a new system that is worse than the old, makes no sense when the old system can just be re-used and applied to the new platform. 

 

 

Edited July 14, 2016 by Liquid

[EliasDanger]

2 minutes ago, Liquid said:

Excuse the bluntness but you are wrong. It's easier to build off existing code than to wipe everything clean and start again. Part of the reason to use an game engine (like Unity) at all, is to abstract away the differences between the platforms, making it easier to port code/features cross-platform. Rebuilding a new system that is worse than the old, make no sense when the old system can just be re-used and applied to the new platform. 

 

 

How many games have you work on in the past porting them to console from PC?

[Liquid]

2 hours ago, Ultimate Steve said:

The big one: SQUAD is not a video game company. They are a marketing company. They are shifting away from marketing, but KSP is their first game. So, nobody gets things perfect on their first try. Would it be better if KSP had never been made?

False dichotomy. The options aren't between awful controls or no game at all. Having a configurable control layout is also an option. There's also a huge difference between "not perfect", "the controls are terrible with no way to change them". The former is nearly impossible to achieve, the latter is fairly straightforward.

4 minutes ago, EliasDanger said:

And here i thought it was just us Americans who always felt entitled. 
How many games have you work on in the past porting them to console from PC?

What are you, a bad argument generator?

Wanting to be treated equally to others has nothing to do with entitlement, it's the exact opposite of entitlement, genius.
And there's the old "you can't criticize anything you don't have a PhD in" non-argument. Sorry but you've never written a line of code in your life, afraid you can't have an opinion on anything to do with software development.

Edited July 14, 2016 by Liquid

[Liquid]

1 hour ago, Alshain said:

Games come out at different times in different regions all the time.  It's standard operating practice.  Get used to, it will be happening all your life.

Nah, some platforms can get it right. Steam and Xbox seem to be handling KSP's simultaneous worldwide releases just fine. That line of thinking can be used to justify literally anything.

"Microtransactions are standard operating practice. Get used to it..."
"Garbage PC ports are standard operating practice.  Get used to it..."

Logic that can justify everything, can justify nothing.

[Liquid]

4 hours ago, Gaarst said:

Now, I like to hope that these are mistakes that were caused by a rushed release schedule, meaning that they will get fixed in the (hopefully near) future; won't make up for the failed release though.

I'd hope for that too if it weren't for the lack of acknowldgement from Squad regarding the quality of the console version's controls, along with no official word that there are any plans to fix them. As you said it won't make up for the failed release, but that little discount I mentioned would go a long way in showing that they care about it at all.

[Alshain]

21 minutes ago, Liquid said:

Nah, some platforms can get it right. Steam and Xbox seem to be handling KSP's simultaneous worldwide releases just fine. That line of thinking can be used to justify literally anything.

"Microtransactions are standard operating practice. Get used to it..."
"Garbage PC ports are standard operating practice.  Get used to it..."

Logic that can justify everything, can justify nothing.

You can think that all you want but you are going to be disappointing every time a game comes out that releases on different regional time tables.  It's the way game companies do things.

[SpaceK531]

Having gone through the console release of a similar-ish game called Roblox, the routine was exactly the same: US-only first, and other continents later, and it was released on xbox, not PS4. Expecting a multi-platform release to work the same on all platforms in a rush job is not that realistic. At this point, the fact that the developers have not said anything about the release means nothing, except the possibility that they are too busy working on improving the game (as a show of good faith, one might say) than telling everyone that they are busy working on improving the game. Their response to the situation might not even be a presentation of various media but instead a patch to the game.

I think the above will go in one ear and out the other, so I will just say this: It is unlikely that Squad is going to throw people under the bus for too long, and the best course of action right now is just to wait.

[lCristol]

I think this is by far the biggest mistake with KSP for Consoles right now:

"The game doesn't even allow inverting the vertical camera control for god's sake! How does anyone work in the games industry and not know that some people are "invertees" who willnever be able to comfortably enjoy a game that doesn't allow this incredibly basic feature". 

We need to be able to invert the camera. This is mandatory. 

 

Everything else you listed is just meh. I too would be glad if I didn't needed to use the US Store - and will probably buy it again on the EU Store :/ - but the rest is perfectly fine. It's a console port. To hell with keyboard and mouse. Flying already feels better. But I really need to invert my camera. 

 

Squad could just switch motion sensor controll to touchpad if you feel like it. But in my opinion, it doesn't really matter that much. On the other hand, an invertable camera would be nice. 

 

And OMG please tell the europeans what the heck is going on so we can start our fires, get our pitchforks and meet up at SCEE. And then while we burn them we sing about how important it is to be able to invert the camera controls.

 

They should concentrate on building a good update structure for themselves. It would be a pitty if all the PC updates in the future will be 6 weeks earlier then console updates. Just like not beeing able to invert the camera, this also makes people sad. 

 

And while I'm at it: 

Overhaul the graphics, polish the code like you already do, make scatterer stock, make engineer stock, make opm stock maybe look at clouds and let me invert my camera. 

 

Ta-Ta

Cristo

[EliasDanger]

2 hours ago, Liquid said:

False dichotomy. The options aren't between awful controls or no game at all. Having a configurable control layout is also an option. There's also a huge difference between "not perfect", "the controls are terrible with no way to change them". The former is nearly impossible to achieve, the latter is fairly straightforward.

What are you, a bad argument generator?

Wanting to be treated equally to others has nothing to do with entitlement, it's the exact opposite of entitlement, genius.
And there's the old "you can't criticize anything you don't have a PhD in" non-argument. Sorry but you've never written a line of code in your life, afraid you can't have an opinion on anything to do with software development.

There is a polite way to ask for features. Theres a polite way to ask when a release will happen or why there wasnt a simultanious release all over the world. 

But polite is foreign to spoiled bratty little children who can only whine and insult for not being provided everything they wanted right now.

You think Squad is amature hour, then go make your own game or learn respect and manners.

[captMol]

1 hour ago, EliasDanger said:

There is a polite way to ask for features. Theres a polite way to ask when a release will happen or why there wasnt a simultanious release all over the world. 

But polite is foreign to spoiled bratty little children who can only whine and insult for not being provided everything they wanted right now.

You think Squad is amature hour, then go make your own game or learn respect and manners.

If squad feels this way they are welcome to address him. They do not need you to do it for them. 

 

FWIW, his criticism is absolutely sound. 

[Nailbach]

9 hours ago, Liquid said:

1: I'm in the EU, my American friends are playing the game since yesterday. Why can't I play it too? When can I play it?

 

I'm in Europe and I'm playing it, on PS4. MAke of that what you will.

If it's so important for you, you'll find a way.

[monstah]

9 hours ago, Ultimate Steve said:

The big one: SQUAD is not a video game company. They are a marketing company.

Aw, come on. Hasn't this half-assed excuse run out in release, at the very best? Anyway, Flying Tiger, the ones responsible for the port, are a video game company.

 

2 hours ago, Nailbach said:

I'm in Europe and I'm playing it, on PS4. MAke of that what you will.

If it's so important for you, you'll find a way.

I could be wrong, but since you're being deliberately ambiguous, what I make of that is that are you admitting to be using a pirate copy. As far as I know, it hasn't been released on Europe. And I'm not a PS4 owner, but I believe it has global region restrictions, right?

[Liquid]

2 hours ago, Nailbach said:

I'm in Europe and I'm playing it, on PS4. MAke of that what you will.

If it's so important for you, you'll find a way.

I know how to do it, but I'm not gonna drop $40 that Sony reserves the "right" to steal at any time, by banning the account and refusing to refund it's purchases (that's their SOP to those who use secondary accounts to avoid their regional shenanigans). Even so, I'm not exactly in a hurry to play it anymore given the "picked out of a hat at random" control scheme.

[Majorjim!]

7 hours ago, EliasDanger said:

And here i thought it was just us Americans who always felt entitled. 

 

7 hours ago, Alshain said:

Games come out at different times in different regions all the time.  It's standard operating practice.  Get used to, it will be happening all your life.

Wow.. They told EU customers on the day of release that they would not be getting it and then shut down with no explanation.

 They are entailed to complain about something as ridiculous as that!

[EliasDanger]

4 hours ago, captMol said:

If squad feels this way they are welcome to address him. They do not need you to do it for them. 

 

FWIW, his criticism is absolutely sound. 

if he feels that way, he's welcome to say so himself.

 He does not need you to do it for him.

And I dont care if his criticism is sound. Its his attitude I have a problem with.

If squad feels I shouldnt say anything when people are acting childish on the forum, they can tell me themselves. 

[Nailbach]

1 hour ago, Liquid said:

I know how to do it, but I'm not gonna drop $40 that Sony reserves the "right" to steal at any time, by banning the account and refusing to refund it's purchases (that's their SOP to those who use secondary accounts to avoid their regional shenanigans). Even so, I'm not exactly in a hurry to play it anymore given the "picked out of a hat at random" control scheme.

 

1 hour ago, monstah said:

I could be wrong, but since you're being deliberately ambiguous, what I make of that is that are you admitting to be using a pirate copy. As far as I know, it hasn't been released on Europe. And I'm not a PS4 owner, but I believe it has global region restrictions, right?

No hacking or stealing or anything like that involved. I just happen to have an US account too. I paid for and downloaded the game from there and play the game on my European account, that's all to it. As all games on PS4 are region free there's no problem. I also have the Japanese version of Dragonquest builders, aquired form the Japanese PSN store, played on the European account.

I created two account NailbachMurica and NailbachJPN just for that alone.

Why should Sony ban my account? There's nothing unrightful to this. It's also nowhere stated in the Terms of Service that you can't do that.

Edited July 14, 2016 by Nailbach

[monstah]

29 minutes ago, Nailbach said:

Why should Sony ban my account? There's nothing unrightful to this. It's also nowhere stated in the Terms of Service that you can't do that.

From the PSN EULA:

Quote

You may not provide SIENA or any third party company with false or inaccurate information, including reporting false complaints to our or our affiliates' consumer services or providing false or inaccurate information during account registration.

Quote

You may be able to make transactions only with a designated Sony regional company which is determined by your country/area of residence. Your country/area of residence may be verified by your credit or debit card number and may be rejected if the information does not match

Quote

 

If SIENA determines in its sole discretion that you or your associated Sub Accounts have violated any term of this Agreement, the Usage Terms, or any other terms and conditions connected with PSN First Party Services or have otherwise injured or damaged the PSN First Party Services community, SIENA may take all actions to protect its interests, including termination or suspension of your Account (both the Master Account and any associated Sub Accounts), automatic removal or blockage of content, implementation of upgrades or devices intended to discontinue unauthorized use, permanent or temporary disablement of any system or device through which you receive PSN First Party Services or reliance on any other remedial efforts as necessary to remedy the violation. If the violation is in connection with content that you or your Sub Accounts have accessed, you must immediately cease use of such content and delete all copies from all of your devices.UPON TERMINATION OF YOUR ACCOUNT FOR ANY REASON, YOU WILL NOT RECEIVE A REFUND FOR ITEMS (INCLUDING SUBSCRIPTIONS AND PRE-PAID PRODUCTS OR SERVICES), VALUE ACCUMULATED ON IN-GAME ITEMS OR ANY UNUSED BALANCE IN YOUR WALLET EXCEPT AS REQUIRED BY LAW OR AS EXPRESSLY PROVIDED IN THIS AGREEMENT.

I'm sorry. I trust you have no bad intentions, but it seems to me that you're breaking the rules nonetheless.

(unless you're a diplomat or closely related to one, and actually reside in more than one continent, that is)

[klesh]

He looks like a diplomat to me, I'm convinced.  

[Nailbach]

24 minutes ago, klesh said:

He looks like a diplomat to me, I'm convinced.  

Thank you good sir.