SuperMeat project- how realistic is it?

[RainDreamer]

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/supermeat-real-meat-without-harming-animals-food-technology#/

Now, cultured meat is not a new concept and I personally believe that in the future this will be our main source of protein, likely to be replacing current types of meat. So on the technical aspect, I don't have much objection to this project. However, as an advertiser, reading through the indiegogo campaign page I feel like there are a lot of red flags, all the over promise, buzzwords and drawing up visions without technical explanation.

What do you think? Is their plan feasible?

[Dr. Jet]

Non-feasible. Current in-vitro technology...

1. Needs some new method of accelerating muscle cell fission. It's TOO SLOW to be industrial.
2. Doesn't allow production of whole muscle - just thin films of muscular cells. Good for sausage filling, useless for steak.
3. Is VERY expensive. Times more expensive than traditional production of natural meat.

Wel... the most annoying obstacle is the third one... If it will be solved somehow, growth speed won't be much trouble and we'll have at least natural meat sausages - without disgusting soy or minced skin and bones.

Edited July 31, 2016 by Dr. Jet

[SinBad]

And think about all the extinct animals found under the ice with decent dna left in them. No one wants to eat an elephant, but mammoth burgers? They pretty much market themselves. Of course, at what point does someone ask "is it really cannibalism if the meat didnt come from a human?".

[RainDreamer]

Welp seems like their claim of being able to make a machine that grows meat in every home is completely baseless as of current time then.

[Shania_L]

6 hours ago, Dr. Jet said:

Non-feasible. Current in-vitro technology...

1. Needs some new method of accelerating muscle cell fission. It's TOO SLOW to be industrial.
2. Doesn't allow production of whole muscle - just thin films of muscular cells. Good for sausage filling, useless for steak.
3. Is VERY expensive. Times more expensive than traditional production of natural meat.

Wel... the most annoying obstacle is the third one... If it will be solved somehow, growth speed won't be much trouble and we'll have at least natural meat sausages - without disgusting soy or minced skin and bones.

1 & 2 are certainly issues, 3 is simply down to it being an experimental process. Once you start doing this on industrial scales the price per unit will drop drastically. Come to think of it, volume production would help covering point 1 as well, just compare it to the process of producing 10 year aged whiskey.

Another issue which would arise from this is one the "animal huggers" possibly havn't considered, what happens to cows, pigs and sheep when they are no longer valued as food sources? Compare this to the horse population after the advent of motor vehicles, up until the turn of the last century the UK (the example I am most familiar with) had a horse population in the tens of millions, today it is in the tens of thousands at most.

The horse is one of the only large land mammals to survive since the ice age, simply because they are useful to humans.

Horses still have a function in the sporting and luxuary entertainment areas, could the same be said of a cow or chicken when they is not required for food? The chances are that these animals could go from being some of the most populous large animals on the planet to brink of extinction very rapidly. The few remaining herds being kept specifically for luxuary products, those who are willing to pay high prices for the real thing ... £10,000 "real beef" burger anyone?

I can fully understand the reasoning for this, from a practical perspective the planet is going to have trouble sustaining an ever increasing human population, lab-grown meat is a great addition to take the strain off conventional farming. However the best use I can see for this is off-world, with current technology long duration spaceflight is essentially a vegan experiance, being able to produce beef burgers on Mars without having to teach a cow how to operate a spacesuit would make colonisation far easier!!

 

[magnemoe]

8 hours ago, Shania_L said:

1 & 2 are certainly issues, 3 is simply down to it being an experimental process. Once you start doing this on industrial scales the price per unit will drop drastically. Come to think of it, volume production would help covering point 1 as well, just compare it to the process of producing 10 year aged whiskey.

Another issue which would arise from this is one the "animal huggers" possibly havn't considered, what happens to cows, pigs and sheep when they are no longer valued as food sources? Compare this to the horse population after the advent of motor vehicles, up until the turn of the last century the UK (the example I am most familiar with) had a horse population in the tens of millions, today it is in the tens of thousands at most.

The horse is one of the only large land mammals to survive since the ice age, simply because they are useful to humans.

Horses still have a function in the sporting and luxuary entertainment areas, could the same be said of a cow or chicken when they is not required for food? The chances are that these animals could go from being some of the most populous large animals on the planet to brink of extinction very rapidly. The few remaining herds being kept specifically for luxuary products, those who are willing to pay high prices for the real thing ... £10,000 "real beef" burger anyone?

I can fully understand the reasoning for this, from a practical perspective the planet is going to have trouble sustaining an ever increasing human population, lab-grown meat is a great addition to take the strain off conventional farming. However the best use I can see for this is off-world, with current technology long duration spaceflight is essentially a vegan experiance, being able to produce beef burgers on Mars without having to teach a cow how to operate a spacesuit would make colonisation far easier!!

 

Probably, and even if you don't get an realistic muscles you only need texture for sausages or grind meat. Don't think it will replace natural meat, but will take over lots of it. 
Its needed meat consultation is up all around and this will solve the problems this cases. 

[Nothalogh]

18 hours ago, RainDreamer said:

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/supermeat-real-meat-without-harming-animals-food-technology#/

Now, cultured meat is not a new concept and I personally believe that in the future this will be our main source of protein, likely to be replacing current types of meat. So on the technical aspect, I don't have much objection to this project. However, as an advertiser, reading through the indiegogo campaign page I feel like there are a lot of red flags, all the over promise, buzzwords and drawing up visions without technical explanation.

What do you think? Is their plan feasible?

>cultured meat

I'd feed it to rats, and eat the rats instead

[cubinator]

I think this is a more realistic alternative right now. Sure, cultured meat can be useful, but grasshoppers are way easier to raise and more energy-efficient. Besides, they already exist in large quantities whereas cultured meat doesn't.

Edited July 31, 2016 by cubinator

[Waxing_Kibbous]

I'm skeptical, take a cow or pig for instance- various cuts have different flavors and textures because the functions the muscles do are different. Will they be able to make a ribeye with the buttery medallion of fat embedded in it? A pork shoulder vs a pork loin is a world of difference.

[RainDreamer]

1 hour ago, Waxing_Kibbous said:

I'm skeptical, take a cow or pig for instance- various cuts have different flavors and textures because the functions the muscles do are different. Will they be able to make a ribeye with the buttery medallion of fat embedded in it? A pork shoulder vs a pork loin is a world of difference.

That is what I am sceptical about as well. Growing meat for protein paste is one thing, but construct muscles as they are supposed to be in the animal seems like it's going to be not possible with our current tech.

 

1 hour ago, cubinator said:

I think this is a more realistic alternative right now. Sure, cultured meat can be useful, but grasshoppers are way easier to raise and more energy-efficient. Besides, they already exist in large quantities whereas cultured meat doesn't.

I think it's indeed our current nearest alternative to meat as protein source. Likely as supplement or used to make fauxmeat. Though when we are able to actually grow meat, that would be better, since we can totally control the process. Not anytime soon though.

[SinBad]

Well, once we have meat paste, maybe we could use it to 3D print steak? I bet we could grow fat cells too, layer that in with the steak. I wonder how much of the unique flavor of different cuts comes from fat:muscle ratios.

[RainDreamer]

1 hour ago, SinBad said:

Well, once we have meat paste, maybe we could use it to 3D print steak? I bet we could grow fat cells too, layer that in with the steak. I wonder how much of the unique flavor of different cuts comes from fat:muscle ratios.

The problem is that meat gain their texture through the way the muscle it come from is used. Meat paste 3d printed won't feel like steak because the cells never had to work like real muscles, even if you glue them together (that is how cheap steaks are made btw, glueing scrap meat with something like this). 

[hms_warrior]

Or we could simply stop eating meat...

[lajoswinkler]

"Non GMO" - ROFL what a bunch of dumbasses. You can't do this without editing the genome. And, as others said, it's still too expensive.

 

One day, yes. I'm looking forward to it.

[RainDreamer]

2 hours ago, lajoswinkler said:

"Non GMO" - ROFL what a bunch of dumbasses. You can't do this without editing the genome. And, as others said, it's still too expensive.

 

One day, yes. I'm looking forward to it.

If you don't count the cells they grow as organisms, then technically they are not wrong. There are no organisms involved in this meat! It's lab grown! So it's not GMO!

Seriously though, I feel projects like this is eroding trust in science and crowd funding effort. Maybe we should notify indiegogo. Also, seems like they have a contact point through Facebook on their page.

 

[DDE]

Oh, look, another supposedly revolutionary crowd-funder!

These things should be banned already.

 

[kerbiloid]

4 hours ago, RainDreamer said:

There are no organisms involved in this meat!

Technically, as those cells reproduce themselves as any living cell, not 3d-printing, they are organisms,  Just small ones.

Spoiler

This is terrible!

 

 

 

17 hours ago, cubinator said:

I think this is a more realistic alternative right now. Sure, cultured meat can be useful, but grasshoppers are way easier to raise and more energy-efficient. Besides, they already exist in large quantities whereas cultured meat doesn't.

I think it's indeed our current nearest alternative to meat as protein source. Likely as supplement or used to make fauxmeat. Though when we are able to actually grow meat, that would be better, since we can totally control the process. Not anytime soon though.

 

 

On 31.07.2016 at 4:15 PM, Shania_L said:

what happens to cows, pigs and sheep when they are no longer valued as food sources?

That's how I usually argue when discussing with vegans.

6 hours ago, lajoswinkler said:

"Non GMO" - ROFL what a bunch of dumbasses. You can't do this without editing the genome. And, as others said, it's still too expensive.

GMO algae producing the animal protein - that's way a-ha, a-ha, I like it.

Edited August 1, 2016 by kerbiloid

[insert_name]

Could we use this tech for other animal body parts like sustainable ivory growth? That may justify the cost.

Edited August 1, 2016 by insert_name

[cubinator]

3 hours ago, insert_name said:

Could we use this tech for other animal body parts like sustainable ivory growth? That may justify the cost.

Not before all the elephants are dead, unfortunately. It is probably possible, though, considering we've already done things like artificial beating hearts.

[RainDreamer]

3 hours ago, insert_name said:

Could we use this tech for other animal body parts like sustainable ivory growth? That may justify the cost.

Considering ivory worth comes from its rarity justead of it's inherent values, that would just devalue the product. Also growing artificial bones are much more difficult than muscles.

There has also been synthetic versions of ivory, which is almost indistinguishable from the real thing unless you go through extensive testing, but that has not stop poachers, because the people that buy the stuff want "authentic" ivory, instead of any alternatives, for an inflated sense of status. So lab grown ivory would not get the same price even if it's exactly same with the real ivory.

[Nothalogh]

20 hours ago, hms_warrior said:

Or we could simply stop eating meat...

Yes, eating vegans would be a good alternative

[insert_name]

1 hour ago, Nothalogh said:

Yes, eating vegans would be a good alternative

mmm... tasty vegans

[kiwi1960]

I saw an article awhile back where a Japanese scientist had perfected a process to turn human excrement into burgers (or meat, if you like)... the hardest part for anyone making this stuff is to convince people its safe to eat... look at the controversy with GE and GM foods... and residents of Sydney nearly rioted when City leaders wanted to build a waste water to fresh water converter... (urine to water) plant... it got so bad that they canned the idea.

Speaking as a resident of New Zealand and being the worlds number one supplier of dairy products and a world leader in growing meat.... I hope this kind of.... freak food... never ever is accepted. However, I can understand why places like China would like this, they are finding it increasingly difficult to feed their people and add to that, they are ended up a very polluted nation anyhow... this ... freak food would be a blessing to them.

If the world wants to grow food, then it has to stop the cities spreading outwards, and make them spread UPwards instead. Cities and people are taking valuable farm land for housing, and that is a very big mistake.

[KerikBalm]

Does nobody want to mention how cell culture uses a little incredient called FBS... thats "Fetal Bovine Serum"

"the blood fraction remaining after the natural coagulation of blood, followed by centrifugation to remove any remaining red blood cells. Fetal bovine serum comes from the blood drawn from a bovine fetus via a closed system of collection at the slaughterhouse. Fetal bovine serum is the most widely used serum-supplement for the in vitro cell culture of eukaryotic cells. This is due to it having a very low level of antibodies and containing more growth factors, allowing for versatility in many different cell culture applications.

The globular protein, bovine serum albumin (BSA), is a major component of fetal bovine serum. The rich variety of proteins in fetal bovine serum maintains cultured cells in a medium in which they can survive, grow, and divide."

People are trying to produce "serum-free" supplements to FBS, but none of them really work except for very highly derived cells (ie very modified/cancerous) and even then they don't work nearly as well.

Until we have good serum free media, meat grown in cell culture will be grown in the extract of slaughtered cow babies... not much of an improvement...

[RainDreamer]

We probably should start getting used to eating flavoured protein paste...

But in any case, I think something should be done about this super meat project if it's a scam. Need some verification.