Engineless orbiter and how to get it into space?

[ImmaStegosaurus!]

You're looking at "engineless orbiter" from ShuttleVariations pdf. It's an extended Shuttle with only OMS engines and no SSME's. Looks pretty dope, doesn't it?

Does anyone know how designers thought to get this thing in to space? Some say Area 51 has some spectacular tech in there, so does NASA hyper edit?

[James Kerman]

Saturn-Shuttle / The concept model for a Saturn V and Space Shuttle combo.

[kerbiloid]

Buran has only OMS, no problem.

[razark]

Engines on the External Tank?

 

  On 9/8/2016 at 4:48 AM, James Kerman said:

Saturn-Shuttle / The concept model for a Saturn V and Space Shuttle combo.

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That appears to still have the SSMEs on the orbiter, though.

Edited September 8, 2016 by razark

[James Kerman]

 

  On 9/8/2016 at 5:29 AM, razark said:

 

That appears to still have the SSMEs on the orbiter, though.

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I have seen another model that sat on top of the Saturn (instead of being radially mounted) but I couldn't find the image.

[DDE]

Awh, look, it's the Americans copying the Glorious Motherland! /s

[ImmaStegosaurus!]

  On 9/8/2016 at 4:48 AM, James Kerman said:

Saturn-Shuttle / The concept model for a Saturn V and Space Shuttle combo.

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That and SSME's on ET seem like most plausible design and that's going to be my next project. It's going to be a capital B' to fly in efficient manner though.

Edited September 8, 2016 by ImmaStegosaurus!

[_Augustus_]

  On 9/8/2016 at 5:02 AM, kerbiloid said:

Buran has only OMS, no problem.

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Exactly.

[Bill Phil]

Shuttle-C on the other side...

[cubinator]

I think the main engines would be on the ET, which would take it all the way to orbit, detach, and turn around to burn retrograde and reenter.

[Kryten]

I suspect this is related to the mysterious 'non-hydrolox orbiter' option that was part of Martin's Titan-Shuttle studies, but in the absence of any illustrations or detailed descriptions of it it's impossible to say for sure.

[Emperor of the Titan Squid]

  On 9/8/2016 at 4:06 AM, ImmaStegosaurus! said:

You're looking at "engineless orbiter" from ShuttleVariations pdf. It's an extended Shuttle with only OMS engines and no SSME's. Looks pretty dope, doesn't it?

Does anyone know how designers thought to get this thing in to space? Some say Area 51 has some spectacular tech in there, so does NASA hyper edit?

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What's the shuttle variations pdf?

[ImmaStegosaurus!]

  On 9/10/2016 at 9:58 PM, Emperor of the Titan Squid said:

What's the shuttle variations pdf?

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This thing. Interesting read.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/228582057/ShuttleVariationsFinalAIAA.pdf

[Gaarst]

If the Soviets managed to do it, the Americans should be capable of doing it too.

(Is that Magyar/Hungarian on the picture? Edit: Slovene actually, sorry to for being bad with languages)

Edited September 10, 2016 by Gaarst

[Gaarst]

  On 9/10/2016 at 10:05 PM, ImmaStegosaurus! said:

This thing. Interesting read.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/228582057/ShuttleVariationsFinalAIAA.pdf

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Nice pdf you got there. Actually gave me the will to have a n-th take at recoverable launchers for my RSS save (note that my n-1 previous attempts did not produce any viable/useful/practical vehicles)

Edited September 10, 2016 by Gaarst

[ImmaStegosaurus!]

  On 9/10/2016 at 11:40 PM, Gaarst said:

 

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Seems like Energia's main engines are stacked towards the shuttle to line thrust closer to COM. I never realized they did that. I always thought they were placed symmetrically as Vulkan drawings have them.

[Gaarst]

  On 9/11/2016 at 12:18 AM, ImmaStegosaurus! said:

Seems like Energia's main engines are stacked towards the shuttle to line thrust closer to COM. I never realized they did that. I always thought they were placed symmetrically as Vulkan drawings have them.

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I don't think Energia-Vulkan (or -Polyus) and Engeria-Buran would have different engine mounts. The booster is meant to be the same and changing the placement of engines essentially requires a complete redesign. So the drawing might be wrong. I didn't pay attention when I pasted it.

(And now I'll be waiting for an Energia expert to settle this.)

 

Edit:

The RD-0120s are centered around stage 2. They appear not centered because the boosters actually reach further in the ventral side than the core.

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Edited September 11, 2016 by Gaarst

[YNM]

I guess the design went out of plans to use existing rockets to carry the Shuttle. Be that Saturn or Titan.

[ImmaStegosaurus!]

  On 9/11/2016 at 3:20 PM, Gaarst said:

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I don't think Energia-Vulkan (or -Polyus) and Engeria-Buran would have different engine mounts. The booster is meant to be the same and changing the placement of engines essentially requires a complete redesign. So the drawing might be wrong. I didn't pay attention when I pasted it.

(And now I'll be waiting for an Energia expert to settle this.)

 

Edit:

The RD-0120s are centered around stage 2. They appear not centered because the boosters actually reach further in the ventral side than the core.

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Actually it seems they were offset towards the orbiter!
 

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Edited September 18, 2016 by ImmaStegosaurus!

[DDE]

  On 9/18/2016 at 4:17 AM, ImmaStegosaurus! said:

Actually it seems they were offset towards the orbiter!

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Yep, this is slightly concealed by the core stage being lopsided.

Edited September 18, 2016 by DDE