Arrival - movie

[PakledHostage]

5 hours ago, monstah said:

You can probably tell I didn't like the movie very much...  

I was disappointed with it too. Especially in light of all the glowing reviews by the professional critics. Maybe my expectations were too high but maybe it really was just a "chick flick wrapped in a sci-fi veil"?

Spoiler

The whole "language influences how we think and perceive the world, so by giving us their language, the aliens show us how to see the non-linearity of time" thing was kind of hokey.

I can see, as a speaker of more than one language myself, that language is central to cultural understanding and different cultures perceive the world differently, but physics is physics and I can't suspend my disbelief enough to buy into the movie's premise.

Even the bit about the "flashbacks" to Hannah's life being revealed, at the end of the movie, to be something that will happen in the future rather than Loiuse's memories left me with a feeling of "meh".

 

[KSK]

I really enjoyed the film but reading Chiang's short story afterwards definitely helped make sense of it. In-book, the physicist character provides a useful voice for explaining the maths involved and how it provides a window into how the Heptapods perceive reality and hence how they're able to see into the future. I can see how that would be difficult to get across in the film though without completely bogging it down in exposition. 

[monstah]

8 hours ago, KSK said:

I can see how that would be difficult to get across in the film though without completely bogging it down in exposition. 

Ever read Asimov's Foundation? He does a GREAT (in my opinion) work at explaining math that is way more complex that what we currently have, by *not* exposing it. It's like he does Hollywood technobabble, but he merely suggests it, by using as few terms as he can, but sort of pointing toward where it's supposed to go, and it feels right. As a mathematician myself I thought that was a master play. 

[KSK]

5 hours ago, monstah said:

Ever read Asimov's Foundation? He does a GREAT (in my opinion) work at explaining math that is way more complex that what we currently have, by *not* exposing it. It's like he does Hollywood technobabble, but he merely suggests it, by using as few terms as he can, but sort of pointing toward where it's supposed to go, and it feels right. As a mathematician myself I thought that was a master play. 

Psychohistory?

I have read Foundation - and Prelude to Foundation - although admittedly I read them both a long time ago and have forgotten most of the details. And yes - I agree that sometimes the best way to do exposition is by hints and suggestions rather than any sort of detail. Asimov does a fantastic (pun intended) job of this in Fantastic Voyage II: Destination Brain. The central premise of the story (the Miniaturisation Field) is never explained in detail but the imaginary physics of that Field are quite self-consistent and drive a lot of the plot.

I'm still not sure how one would do it in Arrival, where I don't think suggestions and pointers would really be enough. But then again, I'm certainly no Asimov, or a mathematician for that matter.

 

[PakledHostage]

Seems that the Academy liked Arrival a lot. It has been nominated for 8 Academy Awards (Oscars):

Best Picture

Best Adapted Screenplay

Best Director

Best Sound Editing

Best Sound Mixing

Best Production Design

Best Cinamatography

Best Film Editing

 

Edit: 

I should add that I can see best sound/sound editing and best cinamatography/film editing (and maybe even best adapted screen play) but I can't see it winning best picture.

 

Edit 2:

As an aside, Rogue One was also nominated for two Oscars. It was nominated for Best Visual Effects and Best Sound Mixing.

Edited January 24, 2017 by PakledHostage

[Wjolcz]

Can I bump this? Just saw it. And I liked it a lot.

Physics aside. This movie is clearly not about science (hence the sci-fi genre label). I feel like it might be an overintepretation but the movie was more about how understanding languages changes the way we perceive and treat others here on Earth. And I think they did a very good job on that.

As someone who speaks two languages and a future teacher (hopefully) I can relate. The knowledge of the foreign language I gained during my lifetime really changed me in a way. I wouldn't say I'm a saint but I think learning English really taught me something. And that something is to deal more kindly and comapssionately with one another.

[PakledHostage]

1 hour ago, Veeltch said:

Can I bump this? Just saw it. And I liked it a lot.

Well clearly it impressed a lot of people so you are not alone.

Not withstanding my own mixed feelings about it, I hope it does well on Sunday. It is certainly a better film than some of the other nominees from this year and even past years.

[kerbiloid]

4 hours ago, Veeltch said:

The knowledge of the foreign language I gained during my lifetime really changed me in a way.

Level up.
New perk achieved: "Augmented with Sapir-Whorf implants"

P.S.
Leaving the science aside, a question stays unanswered:
if the ET indeed feel themselves at once in the future and in the past,
why/how they can tell in imperative case "do something! (use weapon)", and recognize the fact of their own arrival rather than everlasting presence on the Earth.

For example, golems in Discworld speak much more relevant. Without direct speech (without quotes), impersonally asserting the spoken as a fact.

[Spaceception]

Finally saw it last night, and I liked it a lot, now I'm hoping for a sequel, or at least a book explaining what happens 3,000 years into the future.

[Tex_NL]

22 hours ago, Veeltch said:

The knowledge of the foreign language I gained during my lifetime really changed me in a way.

Speaking three languages; Dutch, English and German, I have to completely agree with this. Despite Dutch, English and German being very similar certain words only look or sound similar. Instead they can mean something COMPLETELY different resulting in some VERY awkward situations.

A real life example, Dutch vs German:
Many years ago I worked as a waiter in a restaurant and accidentally dropped something at a German tourists table. "Das ist nicht schlimm." he replied.
This sounds amlost identical to the Dutch "Dat is niet slim."
"Das ist nicht schlimm." translates to "That's not bad." as in "Don't worry about it."
"Dat is niet slim." translates to "That's not smart." as in "Idiot, watch what you're doing."
If not aware of the similarities and/or differences his comforting reply could have been interpreted as an insult.

Arrival very nicely deals with this. And if/when we do finally meet ET for a close encounter it is something we should take at heart. Extending your hand as a gesture of friendship might be the last thing you do as it could be  interpreted as the most heinous insult imaginable.

I clearly remember a StarTrek: Enterprise episode (can't remember or find which) where an alien representative storms out and breaks off all negotiations because he was invited to dine with the captain. In his culture eating was considered obscene and a private affair.

Edited February 25, 2017 by Tex_NL

[kerbiloid]

15 hours ago, Tex_NL said:

very similar certain words only look or sound similar. Instead they can mean something COMPLETELY different

False friends of a translator

[Tex_NL]

Never knew there was a term for this but is exactly what I was talking about.
Add to this a cornucopia of idioms, proverbs, synonyms and homonyms, and the interspecies linguistic minefield is complete.

[PakledHostage]

On 1/24/2017 at 9:57 AM, PakledHostage said:

Seems that the Academy liked Arrival a lot. It has been nominated for 8 Academy Awards (Oscars):

Best Picture

Best Adapted Screenplay

Best Director

Best Sound Editing

Best Sound Mixing

Best Production Design

Best Cinamatography

Best Film Editing

 

So they were only awarded 1 out of the 8 - best sound editing. 

As an aside, I have to say that I am disappointed that Hell or High Water didn't win anything. That would have been my pick for best picture, having seen most of the nominees.

[Tex_NL]

On 25-2-2017 at 3:01 PM, Tex_NL said:

I clearly remember a StarTrek: Enterprise episode (can't remember or find which) where an alien representative storms out and breaks off all negotiations because he was invited to dine with the captain. In his culture eating was considered obscene and a private affair.

Found it. StarTrek Enterprise. Season 1 episode 22 "Vox Sola"

Quote

On board Enterprise, a first contact with a new species called the Kreetassans has gone terribly wrong, with the aliens leaving the ship in anger, quickly. Captain Jonathan Archer, his first officer, T'Pol, Commander Charles Tucker III and Ensign Hoshi Sato are running down the corridor trying to find out what's wrong. However, the universal translator seems to be malfunctioning and Sato cannot figure out what they are so mad about. The Kreetassan captain and his crew make their way to the ship's airlock and demand to leave. Archer tries to settle the situation by apologizing for whatever they have done. The Kreetassan captain refuses to budge, so Tucker opens the airlock door and the Kreetassans leave.
...

Meanwhile, while the rest of the crew are busy dealing with the situation, Ensign Mayweather is the only senior officer on the bridge. Then, the ship receives a hail. Mayweather activates the hail; it is the Kreetassan captain. The Kreetassan captain is speaking English, noting that it was not hard to learn. Mayweather talks to the captain and learns that the reason that they left quickly was because they saw that crewmembers were eating in public, which they see as much like mating for them. He states that they also eat with their mouths, but do so in private.  Mayweather makes an apology, which the captain accepts.

 

[kerbiloid]

9 minutes ago, Tex_NL said:

He states that they also eat with their mouths, but do so in private. 

So, that's the moment when those Kreet(donkey)ans can be caught by surprise.
Just wait for their lunch when they hide in different corners and get them one by one.

(Or just lock the doors of their eating-closets from outside)

Edited March 3, 2017 by kerbiloid