[1.12.x] Konstruction! Weldable ports, servos, cranes, and magnets!

[Akilax]

On 8/30/2017 at 7:37 PM, dboi88 said:

Konstruction is now bundled with MKS which is why the space dock page hasn't been updated.

Sounds like you haven't installed it properly. You should have this button available. 

Which will open this screen

Hello everyone

I started to build a few vehicles today that were supposed to help me in positioning 'Tundra' modules on Mun to start my first base there and learn the basics.

I built a vehicle not unlike the Example: Magnet and tested it around KSC, when I noticed my Servo Controller did not show up anything despite there being 14 PAL Wheels on the vehicle.

I do have the button shown in the quoted post above, but my window is completely empty.

I uninstalled and reinstalled Konstruktion, but the problem persisted.

What I noticed is, that the IR Servo Controller did show 14 new devices, but they could not be controlled from that interface.

Is there some configuration that needs to be done?

Could someone point me to what I may be doing wrong, please?

Thank you for any assistance

[vossiewulf]

I love this mod, but I'm having a problem with the Akita rover: I shipped him in pieces, putting him together on Minmus and all goes well except for one little issue - the wheels won't attach. Or rather they'll attach anywhere BUT where they're supposed to. It's like they're wheel-shaftophobic. I gave up for the moment and just stuck his wheels random places to store them until I can figure out how to fix this.

 

[Wyzard]

21 minutes ago, vossiewulf said:

I love this mod, but I'm having a problem with the Akita rover: I shipped him in pieces, putting him together on Minmus and all goes well except for one little issue - the wheels won't attach. Or rather they'll attach anywhere BUT where they're supposed to. It's like they're wheel-shaftophobic.

That's because of Konstruction issue #43: the axles lack colliders, so KIS doesn't snap to them.  This is also why the axles fall through the ground when you drop the parts.

Look at the screenshot on that issue page and note the areas that have yellow boxes around them.  If you rotate your view so that one of those areas is "behind" the axle attachment point, the wheel attachment should work.  (It helps to turn the Akita upside-down for this.)

Pinging @RoverDude as a reminder since this is probably a pretty quick and easy fix. 

[vossiewulf]

28 minutes ago, Wyzard said:

That's because of Konstruction issue #43: the axles lack colliders, so KIS doesn't snap to them.  This is also why the axles fall through the ground when you drop the parts.

Look at the screenshot on that issue page and note the areas that have yellow boxes around them.  If you rotate your view so that one of those areas is "behind" the axle attachment point, the wheel attachment should work.  (It helps to turn the Akita upside-down for this.)

Pinging @RoverDude as a reminder since this is probably a pretty quick and easy fix. 

Thanks for the suggestion, unfortunately could not get it to work.

Some other Akita things:

1) I can't get any right click menu on the command seat in the SPH, I assume it has to have one since the core has no controls for the lights.

2) You can't mirror wheels when installing them in the SPH.  When you try to put on a wheel in mirror mode it just kicks back to single mode when you mouse over the attachment points, so you have to put the wheels on one at a time.

[Wyzard]

4 hours ago, vossiewulf said:

Thanks for the suggestion, unfortunately could not get it to work.

Just to make sure we're on the same page, this is what I mean:

The Akita is upside-down, so the axle appears in front of the flatbed part (where the collider is).  When the mouse is over the axle's attachment point, it's also over the collider, so KIS recognizes that the mouse is pointing at the part.

(It's also necessary to press 'R' once to tell KIS to use the wheel's attachment node.)

[vossiewulf]

3 hours ago, Wyzard said:

Just to make sure we're on the same page, this is what I mean:

The Akita is upside-down, so the axle appears in front of the flatbed part (where the collider is).  When the mouse is over the axle's attachment point, it's also over the collider, so KIS recognizes that the mouse is pointing at the part.

(It's also necessary to press 'R' once to tell KIS to use the wheel's attachment node.)

I didn't flip him over but I certainly was able to line up the flatbed behind the attachment point as well as the core by looking from underneath, but it didn't work. I'll flip it over, not sure what difference it would make but it's something to try. And thanks for giving me a workaround while we wait for a real fix. I haven't looked at the collider config but just glancing through it it's not that complex, would just need some docs and I'm sure I could figure out what to add and where. If I do I'll post the patch here.

[RoverDude]

9 hours ago, vossiewulf said:

Thanks for the suggestion, unfortunately could not get it to work.

Some other Akita things:

1) I can't get any right click menu on the command seat in the SPH, I assume it has to have one since the core has no controls for the lights.

2) You can't mirror wheels when installing them in the SPH.  When you try to put on a wheel in mirror mode it just kicks back to single mode when you mouse over the attachment points, so you have to put the wheels on one at a time.

Command seat has no controls. so that sounds correct.  What are you trying to do with the lights?

The wheel symmetry is known, I just do an alt-click and call it a day.

[Wyzard]

2 hours ago, vossiewulf said:

I haven't looked at the collider config but just glancing through it it's not that complex, would just need some docs and I'm sure I could figure out what to add and where. If I do I'll post the patch here.

Colliders are part of the model (the .mu file), and I don't think you can add new colliders with a .cfg patch.  The "right" way to do it involves editing the original Unity scene that the .mu was made from, but AFAIK only RoverDude has that (it's not part of the GitHub repo).  It should be possible to convert the .mu to a Blender file, add colliders, and convert back, but there are complications and it may not be allowed from a copyright standpoint.

The wheel symmetry, however, can probably be done with a .cfg patch: there's a stackSymmetry option, used in the mk2 bicoupler for example, that enables it.  It's not entirely clear how it determines which nodes are eligible for symmetry, though.

[RoverDude]

Yep, this would be a model change.  Not a major one, but still a change

[vossiewulf]

4 hours ago, RoverDude said:

Command seat has no controls. so that sounds correct.  What are you trying to do with the lights?

The wheel symmetry is known, I just do an alt-click and call it a day.

Wasn't trying to do anything with the lights, I was saying that every other rover I've seen the command cab has a right click menu to configure many things, one of which is turning on/off headlights/cabin lights. And since I didn't see any such options on the core, I figured the command seat must have a right click menu that's broken. But I gather not, this is just a simpler small rover.

[RoverDude]

It's not a pod, it is more akin to a command chair.

[vossiewulf]

@RoverDude what do you think of these?  I've been making a few designs and it sometimes seems like every single part comes from a different mod. These are my new "small" rover design, which will make more sense when you see the "large" rover

First step was making the basic frame and working out the wheel positioning and tweaking and re-tweaking the high and low-speed limits and response time etc. until we have a very tight turn radius at both low and high speeds. This guy is also a blast to drive, the acceleration and handling are impressive, the most impressive thing to me is doing maximum turns at 57m/s near 140mph and he doesn't even skid.

Spoiler

Features

Features:
- 1 x Crew
- 24k Battery Storage
- 58.3m/s top speed on Kerbin
- Nearly impossible to flip. In low G it moves like a small hovercraft. A very fast small hovercraft.

 

Mini-Mule K, K for Konstruction, 2 x cranes + counterweight + PAL magnetic coupler, this is a general purpose move stuff around base vehicle.

Spoiler

Features

Features:
- 3 x Crew
- 2 x Konstruction PAL cranes
- PAL Magnetic Coupler for transporting large fuel tanks/engines/etc.
- 1 x Gigantor XL Solar Panel
- 24k Battery Storage
- 1 x Counterweight

 

Mini-Mule KR, for Konstruction + Recycling, this is a base cleanup unit to deal with launch/landing/unpacking debris.

Spoiler

Features

Features:

- 3 Crew
- 2 x PAL Cranes
- 1 x KCC Large Recycling Bin
- 1 x Pathfinder Buckboard 6000, storage for ~2800 units of scrap metal
- Tilted recycler bin allows recycling of 2.5m parts
- 4 x Pathfinder Buckboard 1000 for 4,000L of flexible storage
- PAL Crane Counterweight
- Large Light Array for easy nighttime driving/part location
- 1 x Gigantor XL Solar Panel
- 23k Battery Storage
- Top Speed empty, ~42m/s
- Nearly impossible to flip, can do max turn at 40m/s and keep all wheels down
- 2 x Small Reaction Wheels to maximize stability when loaded
- 15G Communotron something or other antenna
- MJ + BV
- Carefully designed, tested, and tweaked steering to provide excellent turning response and the smallest possible turn radii at both low and high speeds

 

Mini-Mule MF for Mining+Fuel, traditional ISRU fuel/monoprop conversion of ore, with lots of drills.

Spoiler

Features

Features:
-3 crew 
-12 Drill-O-Matic Junior drills
-Convertotron 125
-2 x Inflated Pathfinder Wagons each @12,000 units for LFO/Monoprop
-3 x Gigantor XL Solar Panels ~72ec/sec
-24k Battery Storage
-10 x Kerbal Foundries Small Rover Wheels - wheel position and steering very carefully tweaked and tested to produce a very tight turning radius at all speeds.

 

And my battlecruiser-class rover which is even more fun to drive than the little Mules.

Spoiler

Features:

 

- Pretty much anything, it's so large it can hold quite a bit. Even loaded for use there is still massive surface acreage that could be loaded up with all kind of ladders and experiments and lights etc.

- Top speed ~36m/s

For just the key action, skip ahead to 1:20 and then after that is over, to 4:30 to see what happens going the other direction

 

[The Aziz]

On 1.03.2017 at 2:13 PM, Kobymaru said:

Hi. quick question: How does the Magno-Pad targeting work?

I was under the impression that I only have to stick such a pad on the target vessel, click "Enable Targeting" on my magnet and that's that.

However, when enabling targeting and the magnet, the target wouldn't budge: no reaction to the magnet. Only when I turned targeting off did the target instantly snap back to the magnet.

Did I do something wrong, or might that be a bug?

Didn't see the answer, so asking again for the exactly same thing. I want to catch the thing at the CoM, which should make it easier to carry around, especially long things (like first stages or something), but the crane catches anywhere but there. The rest is above.

[Rodger]

Is there any chance of a UI update for the servo controller? It's not the most intuitive thing to use at the moment... Maybe even some tool-tips for the buttons?

[Wyzard]

1 hour ago, Rodger said:

Is there any chance of a UI update for the servo controller? It's not the most intuitive thing to use at the moment... Maybe even some tool-tips for the buttons?

I'll second this, since I haven't quite been able to figure out the servo UI. 

You can accomplish a lot without having to use the servo controls at all, though:  the crane/claw/forklift parts greatly increase the weight limit for picking up nearby parts with KIS.  So you can park your crane vehicle next to a heavy part and then have the kerbal just pick it up with the 'G' key to move it around.  Let the crane's assistance be implied instead of explicit.

Edited September 21, 2017 by Wyzard

[RoverDude]

If there's a specific function that's not possible to do, let me know.  IMO I can sort 99% of the concerns with a video

[Rodger]

17 hours ago, Wyzard said:

You can accomplish a lot without having to use the servo controls at all, though:  the crane/claw/forklift parts greatly increase the weight limit for picking up nearby parts with KIS.  So you can park your crane vehicle next to a heavy part and then have the kerbal just pick it up with the 'G' key to move it around.  Let the crane's assistance be implied instead of explicit.

Wait, that's a thing? That's fantastic, thanks for letting me know!

[Wyzard]

14 hours ago, RoverDude said:

If there's a specific function that's not possible to do, let me know.  IMO I can sort 99% of the concerns with a video

A video would help, but it's not that there's a particular task that I don't know how to do, just that I haven't been able to figure out what some of the controls are.  Specifically:

• The "<->" button doesn't seem to do anything, and I can't tell what it's meant for.
• There's a button that initially says "+", changes to "-" when clicked, and changes to "o" when clicked again.  I assume those are modes or something, but it's not clear what they mean.  I also haven't found a way to go from "o" back to "+".

I think I understand the other controls, though it took a little experimentation to learn how "goal" mode works.  (Also, it wasn't initially clear that the "-F-" and "-G-" button shows what mode it switches to, not the mode that the servo is currently in.)

[Atario]

Am I doing something wrong, or are the PAL Wheels… uh… violent?

I'm talking about this one, looks like this:

If I just attach four of these to a PAL Truss, set deployment to an action group, and stick a command module on, then deploying the wheels while on the KSC Launch Pad destroys the launch pad!

I also tried putting four on a vessel that weighs 126 tons.  Deploying them on the ground launches it maybe a dozen meters in the air.  Doing it on Minmus gives an apoapsis of about 500m above terrain.

Is there a "don't deploy like Mjölnir" setting?

(I'm on KSP v.1.2.2 x64, for what it's worth)

Edited September 22, 2017 by Atario

[Wyzard]

Useful trick that I just discovered: the DERP Storage Box, from the USI Exploration Pack, fits nicely on the Akita core's top attachment node and serves as a convenient "glove box" to store things like KIS screwdrivers. 

Edited September 24, 2017 by Wyzard
Added image

[Lord_inter]

I am aware that the different "tools" can help the kerbals lift different amounts, is it possible to have these weights in the tool tips?

[goldenpsp]

16 minutes ago, Lord_inter said:

I am aware that the different "tools" can help the kerbals lift different amounts, is it possible to have these weights in the tool tips?

@RoverDude Loves pull requests if you want to help...

[Lord_inter]

I've offered the help I can but I'm pretty useless at making things with computermajigs

[Wyzard]

Is there a way to control how quickly the folding PAL wheels deploy?  By default they unfold pretty quickly, which doesn't play well with low-gravity moons.  I just built a rover on Minmus with four of them on a PAL Truss, and pressing the 'G' key launches it a hundred meters off the ground. 

BTW, it's a bit tricky to assemble a PAL vehicle with those wheels using KIS, because they're too big to carry in a kerbal's inventory so they have to be dropped on the ground, but they tend to explode when the upper part of the collider touches the ground.

[goldenpsp]

1 hour ago, Wyzard said:

Is there a way to control how quickly the folding PAL wheels deploy?  By default they unfold pretty quickly, which doesn't play well with low-gravity moons.  I just built a rover on Minmus with four of them on a PAL Truss, and pressing the 'G' key launches it a hundred meters off the ground. 

BTW, it's a bit tricky to assemble a PAL vehicle with those wheels using KIS, because they're too big to carry in a kerbal's inventory so they have to be dropped on the ground, but they tend to explode when the upper part of the collider touches the ground.

my only comment regarding KIS is that while it is an amazing mod I don't think it is reasonable to expect that everything needs to be designed to be assembled in situ.