pieman478 Posted October 11, 2016 Share Posted October 11, 2016 Just now, FlyingKiwibird said: yeah sorry about that xD its late and i had a couple of whiskies and now im gonna play KSP but i hope this clears somethings up if you dont want to read it now you know that it is there should you change your mind Don't worry I'll read it in morning I've just failed at the Comnet and crashed 2 relays into each other... trying to manuver them on dark side of Mun Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilhmar Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Lol this FlyingKiwi guy is off his rocks. Early access games fail regularly and the consumer has no legal recourse what so ever. An EU citizen can cry about EU regulations all he likes but that's not going change a thing in Mexico. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Iron Crown Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 @FlyingKiwibird May I respectfully suggest you actually consult with a lawyer if you intend to pursue this route, I can nearly guarantee that the first advice given will be "don't spout off about this publicly". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kerbart Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 2 hours ago, FlyingKiwibird said: A trader wishing to (...) and whatnot, so i just wanted to clarify this so there are no more misunderstanding. Peace <3 i adressed all this in my latest response which you should and it is not hard to miss since it is a huge wall of text but i cover everything i think is of importance there as to avoid furhter misunderstandings Uhm... yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingKiwibird Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 25 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said: @FlyingKiwibird May I respectfully suggest you actually consult with a lawyer if you intend to pursue this route, I can nearly guarantee that the first advice given will be "don't spout off about this publicly". Pursue what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Iron Crown Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 2 minutes ago, FlyingKiwibird said: Pursue what? Pursue legal action, as your posts seem to imply you are interested in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingKiwibird Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Red Iron Crown said: Pursue legal action, as your posts seem to imply you are interested in. You must not be a very skilled reader then. Read it again 39 minutes ago, Kilhmar said: Lol this FlyingKiwi guy is off his rocks. Early access games fail regularly and the consumer has no legal recourse what so ever. An EU citizen can cry about EU regulations all he likes but that's not going change a thing in Mexico. I did not buy this in early access and if you carefully read what i wrote i think you would come back with an answear that actually relates and is relevant to what i wrote. I provided the legal sources about what applies to business doing business in Europe, and all companies who trade or sell products in Europe abide by our law per legal agreement. So please, do not waste my time if you have not read the law paragraphs i provided Edited October 12, 2016 by FlyingKiwibird chasnged resources to sources Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanamonde Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 International law is beyond the scope of this game and forum. Please take that kind of discussion to other websites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilhmar Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 21 minutes ago, FlyingKiwibird said: You must not be a very skilled reader then. Read it again I did not buy this in early access and if you carefully read what i wrote i think you would come back with an answear that actually relates and is relevant to what i wrote. I provided the legal sources about what applies to business doing business in Europe, and all companies who trade or sell products in Europe abide by our law per legal agreement. So please, do not waste my time if you have not read the law paragraphs i provided What you obviously fail to realize is that it is not SQUAD who's doing business in the EU... It is you who are, via the internet, doing business with a Mexican company in Mexico. SQUAD has no EU affiliate or office, no EU registered subsidiary or anything that would bring them under any EU law or regulation whatsoever. You're like a virtual tourist on the streets of Mexico City crying about EU regulations because your burrito taste funny. If you want to pursue legal proceedings against Squad you'd have to do that in Mexico under Mexican law. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadLeo Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 40 minutes ago, Kilhmar said: What you obviously fail to realize is that it is not SQUAD who's doing business in the EU... It is you who are, via the internet, doing business with a Mexican company in Mexico. SQUAD has no EU affiliate or office, no EU registered subsidiary or anything that would bring them under any EU law or regulation whatsoever. You're like a virtual tourist on the streets of Mexico City crying about EU regulations because your burrito taste funny. If you want to pursue legal proceedings against Squad you'd have to do that in Mexico under Mexican law. Good luck. That isn't totally true, but there's wisdom in your words. As someone with a background in law: e-commerce can be, well, complicated when it comes to find what country's law is applied to whom, when, where and why, because different countries, or economic blocks, regulate things differently. For starters, Squad sells its game through mediums other than it's own website, that are subjected to regulations other than the Mexican law. But, as stated above, expert advice is the way to go if one chooses to take action, so that any decision taken is informed decision. On the other hand, moaning around is of little help - and gathers only antipathy. One does what one must do, but words and deeds are often a long way apart. I must agree with the mods here: this isn't the place to the discussion being carried out - even abiding that I am to a little off-topicness, this is going too far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingKiwibird Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 2 hours ago, Kilhmar said: What you obviously fail to realize is that it is not SQUAD who's doing business in the EU... It is you who are, via the internet, doing business with a Mexican company in Mexico. SQUAD has no EU affiliate or office, no EU registered subsidiary or anything that would bring them under any EU law or regulation whatsoever. You're like a virtual tourist on the streets of Mexico City crying about EU regulations because your burrito taste funny. If you want to pursue legal proceedings against Squad you'd have to do that in Mexico under Mexican law. Good luck. Sadly uniformered. However, i am not allowed to continue this topic here. The legal sources are provided in my statement. Have a Nice day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilhmar Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 1 hour ago, FlyingKiwibird said: Sadly uniformered. However, i am not allowed to continue this topic here. The legal sources are provided in my statement. Have a Nice day Lol. That you think Swedish law or a Swedish court has any jurisdiction over a Mexican legal entity is... well, what can I say. Have a nice day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jovzin Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Great guys. Looking forward to play KSP again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angstinator Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 I for one would like to congratulate the development team on successfully including features modders added years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakuzi Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 6 hours ago, Kilhmar said: What you obviously fail to realize is that it is not SQUAD who's doing business in the EU... It is you who are, via the internet, doing business with a Mexican company in Mexico. SQUAD has no EU affiliate or office, no EU registered subsidiary or anything that would bring them under any EU law or regulation whatsoever. You're like a virtual tourist on the streets of Mexico City crying about EU regulations because your burrito taste funny. If you want to pursue legal proceedings against Squad you'd have to do that in Mexico under Mexican law. Good luck. That's not true, KSP is owned and licensed through a company in The Netherlands (DEPORTED B.V.) as you can read in the KSP EULA and the KSP Terms of Service (remember DEPORTED B.V. was set up days before the launch of KSP 1.0?). So what @FlyingKiwibird says is definitely applicable from this respect and might additionally be interesting for console players looking for a refund since EU laws are quite stringent in protecting consumer rights (not sure what the exact regulations are for EU products that are sold overseas). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilhmar Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 (edited) In that case none of us are in business with SQUAD. We're in business with their subsidiary which probably is nothing more than a worthless mailbox company. Heck, it may not even be a subsidiary. Just a separate company set up by SQUAD's owners for tax and liability purposes. A shell company that's easy to just discard if needed. Edited October 12, 2016 by Kilhmar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softweir Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 7 minutes ago, Kilhmar said: In that case none of us are in business with SQUAD. We're in business with their subsidiary which probably is nothing more than a worthless mailbox company. Heck, it may not even be a subsidiary. Just a separate company set up by SQUAD's owners for tax and liability purposes. A shell company that's easy to just discard if needed. There are perfectly innocent explanations for this sort of arrangement. It is difficult for a company that is selling to the world to ensure that it complies with every single regulation in every single market it sells to, and with differences in regulations increasing every year it gets increasingly hard. Having a subsidiary to sell through in each major market simplifies things: each subsidiary is locally staffed with people who understand the local regulations and don't need to concern themselves with regulations in other markets. There are potential bad reasons for running local subsidiaries, but we have no reason other than cynicism to assume they apply in this case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yakuzi Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 12 minutes ago, Kilhmar said: In that case none of us are in business with SQUAD. We're in business with their subsidiary which probably is nothing more than a worthless mailbox company. Heck, it may not even be a subsidiary. Just a separate company set up by SQUAD's owners for tax and liability purposes. A shell company that's easy to just discard if needed. Not disagreeing with you there. The Netherlands is internationally known as a tax haven. Still, any company registered in The Netherlands is by law required to respect EU/Dutch consumer right regulations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilhmar Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 I didn't mean to imply any underhandedness. Limiting liability is perfectly legitimate. That's why limited liability companies (LLC/LTD) exist and are legal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superfluous J Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 48 minutes ago, Angstinator said: I for one would like to congratulate the development team on successfully including features modders added years ago. Just remember: KSP is pretty fun without RemoteTech. Without KSP though, RemoteTech is pretty boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
katateochi Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 1 hour ago, Angstinator said: I for one would like to congratulate the development team on successfully including features modders added years ago. I would like to congratulate the dev team for years ago building a system that enabled modders to extend the game while the devs continued their work on building the foundation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlyingKiwibird Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 3 hours ago, Yakuzi said: That's not true, KSP is owned and licensed through a company in The Netherlands (DEPORTED B.V.) as you can read in the KSP EULA and the KSP Terms of Service (remember DEPORTED B.V. was set up days before the launch of KSP 1.0?). So what @FlyingKiwibird says is definitely applicable from this respect and might additionally be interesting for console players looking for a refund since EU laws are quite stringent in protecting consumer rights (not sure what the exact regulations are for EU products that are sold overseas). Unfortunately it does not apply to digital downloads, so I was wrong in that manner, it is only aplicable to hardware it seems Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kaue_ Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 I have a problem, when i try to go to the Space Center, it just don't go, i opened the debug menu if it helps: It shows this when i try to press "Leave Facility". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tex_NL Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 What the frag Squad? What kind of BS is this? Patches for 1.0.5 to 1.2 and 1.1.3 to 1.2. But none for 1.2pre to 1.2??? 1.2pre to 1.2 would have been the smallest and easiest patch possible as most of it is already installed. But instead you force the biggest possible download upon us. Once again somebody does not have his/her head on straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fourfa Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 Weird, mine patched from 1584 to 1.2-release (1586) in about a microsecond. Seemed like a successful patch to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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