[Minimum KSP: 1.12.2] Heisenberg - Airships Part Pack

[panarchist]

On 9/2/2021 at 9:04 PM, IronHide4 said:

is this compatible with Realistic Overhaul, Real Solar System and RP-1? I can't find the parts in the research tree.

Compatible, yes. Whether or not someone has actually written the config file to put them in the tree is another matter - probably best to ask in those threads, since they would be maintaining any such patch file.

[Wercho]

On 8/14/2017 at 5:41 PM, panarchist said:

and here are the TweakScale config files for ACA and Heisenberg:

FYI, panarchist's config has "hl10Type1Extension" in it twice. Delete one of them to  avoid an error if you use it.

Also, thanks for the config!

[panarchist]

On 9/30/2021 at 7:10 PM, Wercho said:

FYI, panarchist's config has "hl10Type1Extension" in it twice. Delete one of them to  avoid an error if you use it.

Also, thanks for the config!

Thanks for catching that - I've edited the code in that post to remove the extra hl10Type1Extension.

 

[panarchist]

@Angel-125 Any chance you might do a re-release of Heisenberg without the BARIS components, now that you're moving to EVA Repairs? It'd be nice to get the BARIS Bridge subdirectory out. (me not knowing if that's a trivial change or a major one)

[SpaceWolf2021]

On CKAN "Heisenburg CRP Play Mode" shows up in the compatible mods list for 1.12.2, but I get this message when trying to install it "Heisenberg-PlayMode-CRP v2.17.4 depends on Heisenberg, which is not compatible with the currently installed game version". Any suggestions?

[jwbrase]

21 hours ago, SpaceWolf2021 said:

On CKAN "Heisenburg CRP Play Mode" shows up in the compatible mods list for 1.12.2, but I get this message when trying to install it "Heisenberg-PlayMode-CRP v2.17.4 depends on Heisenberg, which is not compatible with the currently installed game version". Any suggestions?

I don't believe Heisenburg itself is on CKAN, so I'm not sure how smoothly I'd expect CKAN installs of things that depend on it to go (in principle, a mod that depends on a mod that isn't on CKAN shouldn't be on CKAN in the first place for that very reason).

[SpaceWolf2021]

52 minutes ago, jwbrase said:

I don't believe Heisenburg itself is on CKAN, so I'm not sure how smoothly I'd expect CKAN installs of things that depend on it to go (in principle, a mod that depends on a mod that isn't on CKAN shouldn't be on CKAN in the first place for that very reason).

I did a manual install. It appears to have installed correctly. I have yet to build anything though. I will update with more info as I try using it.

[panarchist]

1 hour ago, jwbrase said:

I don't believe Heisenburg itself is on CKAN, so I'm not sure how smoothly I'd expect CKAN installs of things that depend on it to go (in principle, a mod that depends on a mod that isn't on CKAN shouldn't be on CKAN in the first place for that very reason).

Heisenberg is on CKAN.

[jwbrase]

5 hours ago, panarchist said:

Heisenberg is on CKAN.

Ah. I'd not been playing KSP for a while and I am a number of versions back (because I have an active save that I'm trying not to break mod compatibility for, and because I've found that if I copy my existing install and save to a separate directory and update KSP, I end up just starting a new save and not finishing my existing one). I'd also swear I saw Angel-125 saying somewhere back on the thread that he hadn't given permission for Heisenberg to be included on CKAN (I just discovered Heisenburg in the past few weeks, and it may be the key to the upper-atmospheric heavy cargo terminal I've been wanting to build on Eve, so I've binged through most of the thread).

[panarchist]

2 hours ago, jwbrase said:

Ah. I'd not been playing KSP for a while and I am a number of versions back (because I have an active save that I'm trying not to break mod compatibility for, and because I've found that if I copy my existing install and save to a separate directory and update KSP, I end up just starting a new save and not finishing my existing one). I'd also swear I saw Angel-125 saying somewhere back on the thread that he hadn't given permission for Heisenberg to be included on CKAN (I just discovered Heisenburg in the past few weeks, and it may be the key to the upper-atmospheric heavy cargo terminal I've been wanting to build on Eve, so I've binged through most of the thread).

Angel-125's position towards CKAN seems to have mellowed the last couple of years. You weren't imaging things - he made several previous comments about not supporting CKAN. I probably track this thread more closely than most due to being an airship and aircraft carrier fanatic. I'm not usually a CKAN user, though, so I had to actually install it again to validate who was maintaining the metadata.

Now that I look at it again, Heisenberg is listed in CKAN as "Airships" (which *is* the other name for it) - I don't know enough about how CKAN works to know if the naming difference as an impact on this.

[jwbrase]

Tried building a half-km x 50 meter three-deck (landing, hanger, launch) floating runway with girders, type 1 flight deck extensions, Ray balloons, and lots of Ubio-zur welding, but couldn't get something that would simultaneously stand up to the stress of flight operations, not crash the editor, and not go beyond what Ubio-zur could put into one part without glitches. Gave up, rigged my heavy cargo spaceplane with folding wingtips to get the wingspan under 40 meters, and started building a more traditional three-hull airship with 40m tweakscale. Editor's fine with it, part count is low, and then, with the thing not even half designed, I take a look at the cost, and just about take a stroke. Building at 40-meter tweakscale is *expensive*.

[Daniel Prates]

7 hours ago, jwbrase said:

Tried building a half-km x 50 meter three-deck (landing, hanger, launch) floating runway with girders, type 1 flight deck extensions, Ray balloons, and lots of Ubio-zur welding, but couldn't get something that would simultaneously stand up to the stress of flight operations, not crash the editor, and not go beyond what Ubio-zur could put into one part without glitches. Gave up

Jeeezus man.... just reading this made MY computer CTD. It wasn't even on! 

[Avery616]

question- is there any way to get the bison bits standalone? thanks! 

[Angelo Kerman]

3 hours ago, Avery616 said:

question- is there any way to get the bison bits standalone? thanks! 

No, sorry. But you will find all the Bison bits in WildBlueIndustries/Heisenberg/Parts/Gondola and WildBlueIndustries/Heisenberg/Parts/Wheel. You can delete all the other parts.

Also, quick check in- is Hooligan Labs' plugin still working in 1.12.3?

[panarchist]

2 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

No, sorry. But you will find all the Bison bits in WildBlueIndustries/Heisenberg/Parts/Gondola and WildBlueIndustries/Heisenberg/Parts/Wheel. You can delete all the other parts.

Also, quick check in- is Hooligan Labs' plugin still working in 1.12.3?

My instance is heavily modded, so I'll try to test it with just HL Airships and Heisenberg - currently the UI is functional across the board, but trying to actually lift ship isn't working at all - it rises far too fast and is uncontrollable. So I'll pare things down to just the specifics and check again, and will edit this post accordingly.

[Chladic88]

On 12/20/2021 at 9:04 PM, Angel-125 said:

No, sorry. But you will find all the Bison bits in WildBlueIndustries/Heisenberg/Parts/Gondola and WildBlueIndustries/Heisenberg/Parts/Wheel. You can delete all the other parts.

Also, quick check in- is Hooligan Labs' plugin still working in 1.12.3?

yes, it is working, at least by me. I just miss the ropes on the elevator part. Also wanted to ask, if it is possible to do some kind of ramp (bevel) of the other parts or even bigger elevator. I can later add some screenshots, what i mean, if you will not understand, what i mean.

[JewelShisen]

On 12/20/2021 at 2:04 PM, Angel-125 said:

No, sorry. But you will find all the Bison bits in WildBlueIndustries/Heisenberg/Parts/Gondola and WildBlueIndustries/Heisenberg/Parts/Wheel. You can delete all the other parts.

Also, quick check in- is Hooligan Labs' plugin still working in 1.12.3?

HLAirships is getting a new update to the code soon and will also be getting released in a slightly new way soon(tm)!

[Chladic88]

On 12/30/2021 at 8:36 AM, JewelShisen said:

HLAirships is getting a new update to the code soon and will also be getting released in a slightly new way soon(tm)!

Cannot wait for it as the Heisenberg part mod is one of my favourites :-)

[Chladic88]

Im sorry for multiposting, i hope you will excuse me.

I have two points which i want to ask:

1. I remember, that in the one of the previous version were visible ropes on the elevator part. Currently i dont see them even if i did clean installation of the game and mods via CKAN.

2. Electric engines - dont they have too high electricity consumption? Running just 2 Monsoon engines is really hard without gas turbines.

3. Gas turbines - is it possible to reduce their noisiness and do it less smoky?

[Angelo Kerman]

4 hours ago, Chladic88 said:

Im sorry for multiposting, i hope you will excuse me.

I have two points which i want to ask:

1. I remember, that in the one of the previous version were visible ropes on the elevator part. Currently i dont see them even if i did clean installation of the game and mods via CKAN.

2. Electric engines - dont they have too high electricity consumption? Running just 2 Monsoon engines is really hard without gas turbines.

3. Gas turbines - is it possible to reduce their noisiness and do it less smoky?

The ropes vanished due to changes in KSP itself, and I haven't got an alternative yet. Maybe I can ping @IgorZ and ask how the winch cables are done, and I can do something similar for the elevator.

For the electric engines, I don't have much time right now to tune them, so if you'd like to take a look, play with the numbers, and post results, then I can update the release and credit your changes.

Meanwhile, I'm slowly working on a self-contained static lift module based on plugin code I wrote for Kerbal Flying Saucers and SunkWorks. Once completed you won't need Hooligan Labs, but that will remain supported. I've got something that realistically works but from a game play perspective it's no fun and too hard to control. No ETA, but expect it sometime by Spring.

[Chladic88]

3 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

For the electric engines, I don't have much time right now to tune them, so if you'd like to take a look, play with the numbers, and post results, then I can update the release and credit your changes.

That would be cool. I have done some balancing in the config files by myself. But before posting, i want to ask you, how much can i change it. It is not problem for me to play with the number. But also, we dont want to make it over powered, right?

 

3 hours ago, Angel-125 said:

Meanwhile, I'm slowly working on a self-contained static lift module based on plugin code I wrote for Kerbal Flying Saucers and SunkWorks. Once completed you won't need Hooligan Labs, but that will remain supported. I've got something that realistically works but from a game play perspective it's no fun and too hard to control. No ETA, but expect it sometime by Spring.

Would it be floating like it is currently? I mean, i like the physics how the whole airship behaves, just sometimes have issues with lift balancing (even with auto pitch tune - but with it is much better). I didnt try Kerbal Flying Saucers, so i dont know how they behave.

[Angelo Kerman]

1 hour ago, Chladic88 said:

That would be cool. I have done some balancing in the config files by myself. But before posting, i want to ask you, how much can i change it. It is not problem for me to play with the number. But also, we dont want to make it over powered, right?

 

Would it be floating like it is currently? I mean, i like the physics how the whole airship behaves, just sometimes have issues with lift balancing (even with auto pitch tune - but with it is much better). I didnt try Kerbal Flying Saucers, so i dont know how they behave.

Right, no OP electrics. I'd expect a single GTG-250-H Gas Turbine Generator to produce enough lift for a single WB-50 "Jet Stream" Electric Prop or a single WB-51 "Monsoon" Ducted Fan. A single GTG-250-H Gas Turbine Generator should be enough for 4 WB-21 "Tornado" Ducted Fans or 2 WB-25 "Twister" Electric Props.

Yeah, I am aiming for something like how it floats now. The problem I have is that 1) the airship bobs up and down as its lift capacity changes with altitude for the current envelope volume, and 2) trim is horrible. I want something that'll fly straight and level. So, like a submarine, I may end up with lift envelopes and trim envelopes.

[Chladic88]

31 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

Right, no OP electrics. I'd expect a single GTG-250-H Gas Turbine Generator to produce enough lift for a single WB-50 "Jet Stream" Electric Prop or a single WB-51 "Monsoon" Ducted Fan. A single GTG-250-H Gas Turbine Generator should be enough for 4 WB-21 "Tornado" Ducted Fans or 2 WB-25 "Twister" Electric Props.

And what about gyrorings? They are also producing some electricity.

 

1 hour ago, Angel-125 said:

I may end up with lift envelopes and trim envelopes.

If it will be possible to switch the hull between these two modes, it would be great :-)

[Angelo Kerman]

8 minutes ago, Chladic88 said:

And what about gyrorings? They are also producing some electricity.

 

If it will be possible to switch the hull between these two modes, it would be great :-)

The nuclear gyro should be plenty to drive the electric props. The regular gyro should not.

There's already a module manager patch to switch between Hooligan Labs and the built-in static lift module.

[Chladic88]

Currently i am playing with the numbers. I will keep the turbine to produce original value of the electricity for now. Same by normal gyroring. But i want to change the generation of the nuclear gyro ring as it would be still overpowered. Below im attaching the table of current electricity consumption:

 

Engine	Power	Electricity consumption
Breeze	20 kN	50 el/s
Twister	100 kN	100 el/s
JetStream	500 kN	195 el/s
Tornado	50 kN	75 el/s
Monsoon	500 kN	200 el/s
Thunderstorm	1000 kN	360 el/s

I am trying to achieve slightly fuel consumption. I am using my already created airship, which has 2 usual gyrorings and 2 turbines now powering 4 Monsoon engines. As result, at full throttle is electricity falling slowly down -> the el capacity on this airship is now 8991 and el consumption is then almost 33 units per second. This give us flying time on full throttle in range 4-6 minutes. As the airship gains altitude, the engine efficiency is getting better, prolonging the time for full speed. At height 11 000m, it was even possible to turn the gas turbines off and recharge the electricity from the two gyrorings. In general, by the Monsoon i reduce el. consumption by 2,5. The rest of the engines i will test later today as i have calculated necessary ratios for these engines.

Also thinking about reducing power for JetStream to have more variety.

And another thing. I wanted to ask you, how to change power output of Nuclear Gyroring?