[0.24.2] Taverio's Pizza and Aerospace v1.7.1 (22/09)

[taniwha]

I need to get my MM version of TVaero configs up. The only thing holding me up is I haven't finished testing.

Taverius: would you mind if I put up my modified version on github? I think it needs more testing (don't have DRE2 configs for it yet, either), but it seems to work.

[taniwha]

Ok, I've gotten permission from Taverius, so here is the github directory of my changes (given for the README). direct link to the zip (please read the readme in the github dir for instructions).

This is a Work In Progress as I have not included Taverius's FAR tweaks to stock parts.

[KhaosCorp]

Does the BallShark camera not work anymore? or am I maybe missing something...

[mushroomman]

I tried to scale the two ludicrously large landing gears to a half and a quarter scale (something I might actually use). But the collision is all wonky. Is there something I have to change besides rescalefactor?

[Taverius]

Does the BallShark camera not work anymore? or am I maybe missing something...

It still needs the MechJeb 1.9.8 plugin (MuMechLib.dll) for the camera rotation to work.

I tried to scale the two ludicrously large landing gears to a half and a quarter scale (something I might actually use). But the collision is all wonky. Is there something I have to change besides rescalefactor?

Collision for the landing gears is wonky period. Whine at C7 to make it sensible

Don't scale the rescales, make yet another copy of the stock one, give it a different 'name =' and apply your own rescale value. Default is 1.25.

[Therm4l]

This mod makes my planes look better, and was some how easier to control, 10/10

[pheeph]

I installed this mod, yet I can't find the rescaled landing gear... am I missing something?

[s20dan]

Oh crap, this isn't fully compatible with FAR anymore.

FAR uses the module manager now, so I would think any changes this mod makes would get over-written by FAR.

[Van Disaster]

Or it will overwrite FAR, being that TV PP is presumably loaded after. All the parts are FAR compatible anyway though, you just might find anything using FAR jets suddenly feels asthmatic.

[s20dan]

Well TV-PP makes changes to stock parts and some of those changes get over-ridden by the FAR module manager version, as it specifically searches for and changes the stock parts on load.

But we still get all the extra parts that TV-PP adds, along with FAR compatibility for those parts so it will still work after a fashion.

Maybe I'll just over-rde the stock parts and see what happens

Edited June 13, 2013 by s20dan

[Dirt_Merchant]

any word as to this working unaltered with far mod?

[s20dan]

I'm using it with FAR and FAR does over-ride the changes that TV makes to stock

[localSol]

Tanihwa's MM version helps TV and FAR to work together almost completely (98-99% as far as the code). I made a tweak using modulemanager script that helps TV MM version (as of the version 12 days ago ) and FAR 0.951 to work together with what was left (mostly engines). It also changes some balance, you can remove any other stuff if you only want the engine changes, which I used TV's in this case : http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/showthread.php/35872-Tweak-BlendedPasta-Stock-TV-and-FAR-Will-it-blend-Reqs-Modulemanager

Tonsa' thanks to ferram, taverius, ialdabaoth, tanihwa and the blendtec total blender.

Edit : To be clearerer, this is a mod/tweak more than a fix, since there was a conflict with which engine settings to use. For that, the authors would decide what to do about it. My mod is unofficial. Happy blending.

Edited June 14, 2013 by localSol
reworded things because i confused even myself.

[TerrificToby]

What happened to the rescaled landing gear? can't find them anywhere...

[SchroedingersHat]

Taverius: A question about your engines and their configs. I was going to rebalance some other engines in a similar fashion but I can't figure it out.

Is the Isp you set representitive of exhaust velocity, or does it include air moved by the work the fuel does?

Take the turbofan for example.

It has Isp 1800 (lower than the effective Isp of most turbofans but still way higher than would be from the exhaust velocity of any chemical reaction). It also has a liquidfuel/intakeair ratio of 45:1 (far more than is required for combustion). As far as I know, KSP uses the mass of fuel+intakeair for its thrust calculations (or perhaps works out fuel consumption backwards from the same assumptions) so this would imply an effective Isp of 46*1800=82000s (I think that's how working out effective Isp works, find the Isp you'd need if the fuel you carry was your only reaction mass) which is over double the best figures I've seen for a turbofan.

[Guest]

I really like this mod. I am going to use it on my hopefully final B-58. The vertcical stabilizer is perfectly proportioned! The spike intakes are awesome too. A lot going on here.

[Rockhem]

Is this gonna be updated for .21?

[Taverius]

Taverius: A question about your engines and their configs. I was going to rebalance some other engines in a similar fashion but I can't figure it out.

Is the Isp you set representitive of exhaust velocity, or does it include air moved by the work the fuel does?

Take the turbofan for example.

It has Isp 1800 (lower than the effective Isp of most turbofans but still way higher than would be from the exhaust velocity of any chemical reaction). It also has a liquidfuel/intakeair ratio of 45:1 (far more than is required for combustion). As far as I know, KSP uses the mass of fuel+intakeair for its thrust calculations (or perhaps works out fuel consumption backwards from the same assumptions) so this would imply an effective Isp of 46*1800=82000s (I think that's how working out effective Isp works, find the Isp you'd need if the fuel you carry was your only reaction mass) which is over double the best figures I've seen for a turbofan.

The numbers are weird because:

a) jet engines in KSP use the wrong formula for ISP. Let alone that they should use TSFC and not ISP.

The base propellant/air mass ratios for the jets are wrong. (turbine engines are not stochioisometric).

c) The bypass ratio of the engine (which gives the 45:1) screws you up even more.

Essentially the Turbojet ISP is eyeballed from the default values, and for the turbofans I just add the bypass ratio and leave the basic ISP pretty much the same, except for changing the way it responds to altitude.

Arguably I should tweak the basic ISP as well, but subsonic engines have such a narrow usage envelope at the moment that its fine as it is.

Is this gonna be updated for .21?

Yes. I'm just dithering because I don't like Module Manager, as its making my life more complex for no advantage. It'll come when its ready.

[SchroedingersHat]

Yes. I'm just dithering because I don't like Module Manager, as its making my life more complex for no advantage. It'll come when its ready.

It does help a lot for people trying to use multiple mods. Also I think I saw someone mention they'd done a modulemanager version of your configs over in the FAR thread at some point. I can't seem to find it at present, but if anyone else reading this knows of it, perhaps the person who did it would be amenable to you building on that to save some work.

[Taverius]

I have it and I'm using it as a base for the next version, but MM doesn't do anything positive for /me/, which is all I care about

[p1t1o]

EDIT - sorry, double post.

I always wondered how people managed to "double post", I guess now I know

Edited July 31, 2013 by p1t1o

[p1t1o]

I'm using it with FAR and FAR does over-ride the changes that TV makes to stock

It depends on the order in which you install them.

The last mod you installed will take precedent.

However, the aero parts in TVs pack are configured properly to work with FAR, so they should be compatible - only the changes to stock parts will compete with each other.

I have TV and FAR installed, but I only took TVs parts, I didn't take any of the stock modifications - FAR takes care of those. They both aim for realism but I just wanted FAR to be solely responsible for that in order to keep things simple.

[B787_300]

Hey Taverius, this will be updated to 21.1 right... I love the pack and the balance that this brings to spaceplanes

[bs1110101]

It works for 2.1.1 now, at least it does for me.

[Autochton]

I have TV and FAR installed, but I only took TVs parts, I didn't take any of the stock modifications - FAR takes care of those. They both aim for realism but I just wanted FAR to be solely responsible for that in order to keep things simple.

Back in 0.20.2, I built myself a combination package of the TV pack as published, and BlendedPasta, which is an attempt at 'ModuleManagerifying' and 'FARifying'. That combination pack appears to still work with 0.21.1. I make no guarantees that this is actually so, since I mainly use it for the landing gear. Also, don't expect the BallShark to follow the 0.21.1 scheme for SAS etc.