Development Update for Consoles!

[Red Iron Crown]

20 hours ago, Swacer said:

And a shock, the Thursday announcement was a waste and the console game owners are treated as the red headed step child again.

Or you could read the KSP Weeklies and see that they're being worked on, with interface improvements as well. It's clear that they are putting resources into the console versions.

[Swacer]

On ‎3‎/‎4‎/‎2017 at 9:32 AM, Red Iron Crown said:

Or you could read the KSP Weeklies and see that they're being worked on, with interface improvements as well. It's clear that they are putting resources into the console versions.

"being worked on"  Doesn't mean much when we've been waiting over a year for something worthwhile. 

Maybe there should have been a $30 refund as a "good faith return" while they produced a playable game (they get to keep $10 of it the original purchase)?  

Edited March 7, 2017 by Swacer

[LegendaryAce]

I agree. Before Microsoft bought out Minecraft, us console gamers referred to year long hiatuses as pulling a Notch. I guess now we'll say that they're pulling a Squad. 

Us console gamers have been constantly shafted for almost a year, so honestly, we have every right to be angry. No amount of being soothed by Squad or PC gamers who never had to deal with this will work until we actually see results.

Edited March 8, 2017 by LegendaryAce

[JoeKerbalGuy]

12 hours ago, LegendaryAce said:

I agree. Before Microsoft bought out Minecraft, us console gamers referred to year long hiatuses as pulling a Notch. I guess now we'll say that they're pulling a Squad. 

Us console gamers have been constantly shafted for almost a year, so honestly, we have every right to be angry. No amount of being soothed by Squad or PC gamers who never had to deal with this will work until we actually see results.

It's taken this long because they had to find someone new to port this. And we should be hearing something more about the update within a time span of 1 month. Just read KSP daily and you'll see!

[LegendaryAce]

1 month, one year, what's the difference right? It's not like I've been waiting since the game came out.

Honestly, I'm about to drop KSP. I've been dragged around with promises and dates for months. At least with Ace Combat 7, I don't need to worry about the release date. I've been waiting for that game since 2011. And now it's coming out this year. 

So if nothing has changed between now and the time Ace Combat 7 is released, I can pretty much guarantee I'm saying goodbye to KSP.

Edited March 9, 2017 by LegendaryAce

[yingyangaje90]

On 3/7/2017 at 2:17 PM, Swacer said:

"being worked on"  Doesn't mean much when we've been waiting over a year for something worthwhile. 

Maybe there should have been a $30 refund as a "good faith return" while they produced a playable game (they get to keep $10 of it the original purchase)?  

I couldn't agree more, this game has been a major let down so far. I've stopped playing this game. And since I'm a video game artist and around developers, game artists, and animators all day, I've been telling everyone, regardless if they heard it or not, to not buy this game on the consoles because it is broken and unplayable. Until it's updated, I won't ever touch this game.

Edited March 26, 2017 by yingyangaje90

[LegendaryAce]

8 hours ago, yingyangaje90 said:

I couldn't agree more, this game has been a major let down so far. I've stopped playing this game. And since I'm a video game artist and around developers, game artists, and animators all day, I've been telling everyone, regardless if they heard it or not, to not buy this game on the consoles because it is broken and unplayable. Until it's updated, I won't ever touch this game.

I agree. I've stopped playing KSP indefinitely. I haven't launched it in over three months. Halo Wars 2 has kept me really busy, so I've not really cared about KSP.

On a side note, it's been almost a month since the last "update" on the console version. If we don't get something big in April, I'm gonna uninstall KSP and try to find a way to get my money back. I'm sick of constantly waiting only to get trivial tidbits.

[chimpbone]

I am pretty sure they are close to releasing 1.2 on console guys. Squad just spoke about the console update in Friday's devnotes. Also, I found this on Blitworks twitter feed: 

To me that sounds like they have submitted some builds to SQUAD that seem pretty close to finished. Probably just testing for bugs and optimizing the UI and such. The devnotes seem to confirm that. 

Edited March 26, 2017 by chimpbone

[yingyangaje90]

I emailed both Squad and Blitworks, they will not give us console players a clear release date. They will just give you a run around saying that it's coming soon and you should talk to Blitworks on Squad side and vice versa. I have a feeling that the consoles won't receive an update until late July, exactly a year after it was released.

On a side note I've filed a negative review with the Better Business Bureau against Squad, Flying Tiger Entertainment, Playstation, and Xbox One; for allowing a broken game to be released early before it was properly tested, making the console players their personal guinea pigs.

[Swacer]

17 hours ago, yingyangaje90 said:

I emailed both Squad and Blitworks, they will not give us console players a clear release date. They will just give you a run around saying that it's coming soon and you should talk to Blitworks on Squad side and vice versa. I have a feeling that the consoles won't receive an update until late July, exactly a year after it was released.

On a side note I've filed a negative review with the Better Business Bureau against Squad, Flying Tiger Entertainment, Playstation, and Xbox One; for allowing a broken game to be released early before it was properly tested, making the console players their personal guinea pigs.

And they will continue to do such because there is no accountability for neither Squad, Flying Tiger, or Blitworks.  They have your money, and know that you will continue to sit and sit and sit, so there is little incentive for them to get anything out to us. 

Maybe it would be a good idea for all console owners to submit reviews to the BBB.  Get their attention that way because they honestly have no interest in giving a legit response.

[Socraticat]

On 3/27/2017 at 11:29 AM, Swacer said:

Maybe it would be a good idea for all console owners to submit reviews to the BBB.  Get their attention that way because they honestly have no interest in giving a legit response.

Maybe a call to a class action lawyer would yield better results.

Edited March 29, 2017 by Joessep Kerman

[0111narwhalz]

34 minutes ago, Joessep Kerman said:

Maybe a call to a class action lawyer would yield better results.

As seen in previous threads about this topic, one is expected to make conversations regarding legal matters private between the relevant two parties.

[Socraticat]

On 3/28/2017 at 7:09 PM, 0111narwhalz said:

As seen in previous threads about this topic, one is expected to make conversations regarding legal matters private between the relevant two parties.

Because it scares the developers? People might use a public forum to organize themselves together and hold folks account for taking a million or so from consumers for a product sold on the marketplace as finished?

[0111narwhalz]

I don't profess to know why, but it's probably for the same reason that restaurants don't want people coming in and shouting about how they'll sic Health and Safety on them.

[DoctorDavinci]

On Tuesday, March 28, 2017 at 9:32 PM, Joessep Kerman said:

Maybe a call to a class action lawyer would yield better results.

Not likely as any lawyer, or company for that matter, are in it for your money and, seeing as the lawyer in question will conduct a cost/benefit analysis, it appears that there would be no profit in even considering such a proposal since the lawyer in question would be unable to recoup their expenditures for such a fiasco 

Good luck with that 

Edited March 31, 2017 by DoctorDavinci

[Red Iron Crown]

15 minutes ago, Joessep Kerman said:

Because it scares the developers? People might use a public forum to organize themselves together and hold folks account for taking a million or so from consumers for a product sold on the marketplace as finished?

It's because the very first advice a lawyer will give you when you consult with them is to stop talking, especially in public. Every word or statement you make publicly is a potential liability. So if you want to start some sort of legal action, talk to a lawyer and stop idly talking about it on a public forum.

(I am not a lawyer, and the opinions expressed above are mine alone and not representative of Squad or any other party.)

 

[AlamoVampire]

@yingyangaje90

Im going to make an assumption and run with it. My assumption is this: You know very little about programming, how porting a game to multiple formats works, the issues there is with such a task, or that Squad is not a AAA game studio like Ubisoft or DICE as examples and that in fact Squad is a Mexico based commercial advertising firm, or at least it was last I knew.

Given the above assumptions, lets chat. 

1. KSP is a physics game driven by GPU more than CPU. 

2. Designing a quality game for even a SINGLE platform takes time. ALOT of time. Add in PS4/XB1 and changing interfaces from mouse keyboard to controller is not easy, add to point 1, and its more complicated. 

3. Licenses for PS4/XB1 take time to get. Legal red tape is a mire of complicated.

4. KSP is being made on (for a game) a microscopic budget. A game like say Final Fantasy XV had a budget on par with say the new Ghost in the Shell movie as it comes from Square Enix, a AAA design house.

i hope this helps clear up things.

[NoMrBond]

1 hour ago, AlamoVampire said:

1. KSP is a physics game driven by GPU more than CPU.

Unity uses the CPU branch of PhysX, not the GPGPU (CUDA) branch. Your CPU's single thread FP performance will be the main determining factor in physics sim speed.

KSP's default graphics are pretty light on the GPU (mods like Scatterer/EVE/SVE/SVT can nail it pretty hard though).

Edited March 31, 2017 by NoMrBond

[AlamoVampire]

@NoMrBond Guess i read wrong or misremembered, either way the rest i thinks still valid

Edited March 31, 2017 by AlamoVampire

[cfds]

4 hours ago, AlamoVampire said:

@yingyangaje90

Im going to make an assumption and run with it. My assumption is this: You know very little about programming, how porting a game to multiple formats works, the issues there is with such a task, or that Squad is not a AAA game studio like Ubisoft or DICE as examples and that in fact Squad is a Mexico based commercial advertising firm, or at least it was last I knew.

Given the above assumptions, lets chat. 

1. KSP is a physics game driven by GPU more than CPU. 

2. Designing a quality game for even a SINGLE platform takes time. ALOT of time. Add in PS4/XB1 and changing interfaces from mouse keyboard to controller is not easy, add to point 1, and its more complicated. 

3. Licenses for PS4/XB1 take time to get. Legal red tape is a mire of complicated.

4. KSP is being made on (for a game) a microscopic budget. A game like say Final Fantasy XV had a budget on par with say the new Ghost in the Shell movie as it comes from Square Enix, a AAA design house.

i hope this helps clear up things.

And which of these points absolve the developer of the game from having to deliver a working product?

[DoctorDavinci]

3 hours ago, AlamoVampire said:

@yingyangaje90

Im going to make an assumption and run with it.

Assumptions are good, however consider the age old saying that 'when you assume you make an ASS out of U and ME

3 hours ago, AlamoVampire said:

1. KSP is a physics game driven by GPU more than CPU.

Swap the 'G' and 'C' with each other and you will be closer to the mark (I'm sure it was just a typo )

3 hours ago, AlamoVampire said:

2. Designing a quality game for even a SINGLE platform takes time. ALOT of time. Add in PS4/XB1 and changing interfaces from mouse keyboard to controller is not easy, add to point 1, and its more complicated.

Agreed ... This is a very complex and convoluted matter that many people have little understanding of

Take for example the recent 'refactor' of KSP, which was mostly disregarded in light of the localization effort that went into the latest pre-release (flaming farts and salty tears for the most part, if you were ask me)... I seriously doubt that there are many 'round these parts' who understand exactly what is involved when it comes to refactoring software code (hell, I'm a hardware guy and I know only bits and pieces ... My involvement with Bahamuto D's Armory Continued has given much new insight into the complexity of what is involved)

4 hours ago, AlamoVampire said:

3. Licenses for PS4/XB1 take time to get. Legal red tape is a mire of complicated.

Yup ... These things take time AND money

4 hours ago, AlamoVampire said:

4. KSP is being made on (for a game) a microscopic budget. A game like say Final Fantasy XV had a budget on par with say the new Ghost in the Shell movie as it comes from Square Enix, a AAA design house.

You are on the money here although I fail to see how 'Ghost in the Shell' has anything to do with Kerbal Space Program (GITS has been mashed into commonality with the movie 'they' have created ... I refuse to watch it as they changed the story from the original)

9 minutes ago, cfds said:

And which of these points absolve the developer of the game from having to deliver a working product?

The developer of any software is not required to provide you with more than what they say it is on the box and through advertising. The fact that you expect more out of what has been clearly depicted is on you and no one else

Consider this ... I get an idea to build something. I then build that thing and someone comes along and says 'Hey, that's cool ... Can I have one?'
I say yes and all is good
Next dude comes by and says the same ... and it goes, and it goes, and it goes ........

At some point someone is gonna come by and say that 'It ain't good enough, I want this ....'

That is where things get all squirelly ... I can give you 'this' yet you want 'that'

I say go get 'that' and leave Squad be ... They gots big things in the works, please stop being so short sighted

[NoMrBond]

1 minute ago, cfds said:

And which of these points absolve the developer of the game from having to deliver a working product?

Squad has subsequently hired BlitWorks to substantially revisit the porting work they'd paid for once already, it's not like they've hung the console users out to dry and washed their hands of it, even if the timeline feels unacceptable, or even punitive.

Submitting PSN and XBLM updates costs a bundle (think ~five figures per platform per patch), plus takes a great deal of paperwork with bureaucratic approval to push through which means PS4/XBOne users can't get the kind of rapdi-fire/ad-hoc partial/beta/pre-release updates Steam/SquadStore users have recently gotten (if they opt in to help with the QA/QC portions of the release), GOG users have the same issue (no pre's) due to similar platform specific approval process.

It's happening, possibly (almost certainly) not as fast as either Squad or you would like, but it is happening.

[Sirad]

3 minutes ago, NoMrBond said:

it's not like they've hung the console users out to dry and washed their hands of it

 

They just already DID IT by 'selling that, Fullpriced as triple AAA, while giving that Console Port to the cheapest doubtful reputed Porter available.'

everyone else following afterwards or told still resides on THAT foundation.

[Warzouz]

11 hours ago, AlamoVampire said:

@yingyangaje90

Im going to make an assumption and run with it. My assumption is this: You know very little about programming, how porting a game to multiple formats works, the issues there is with such a task, or that Squad is not a AAA game studio like Ubisoft or DICE as examples and that in fact Squad is a Mexico based commercial advertising firm, or at least it was last I knew.

Given the above assumptions, lets chat. 

1. KSP is a physics game driven by GPU more than CPU. 

2. Designing a quality game for even a SINGLE platform takes time. ALOT of time. Add in PS4/XB1 and changing interfaces from mouse keyboard to controller is not easy, add to point 1, and its more complicated. 

3. Licenses for PS4/XB1 take time to get. Legal red tape is a mire of complicated.

4. KSP is being made on (for a game) a microscopic budget. A game like say Final Fantasy XV had a budget on par with say the new Ghost in the Shell movie as it comes from Square Enix, a AAA design house.

i hope this helps clear up things.

Those justifications are totally irrelevant for a customer.

[Swacer]

6 hours ago, NoMrBond said:

Squad has subsequently hired BlitWorks to substantially revisit the porting work they'd paid for once already, it's not like they've hung the console users out to dry and washed their hands of it, even if the timeline feels unacceptable, or even punitive.

Submitting PSN and XBLM updates costs a bundle (think ~five figures per platform per patch), plus takes a great deal of paperwork with bureaucratic approval to push through which means PS4/XBOne users can't get the kind of rapdi-fire/ad-hoc partial/beta/pre-release updates Steam/SquadStore users have recently gotten (if they opt in to help with the QA/QC portions of the release), GOG users have the same issue (no pre's) due to similar platform specific approval process.

It's happening, possibly (almost certainly) not as fast as either Squad or you would like, but it is happening.

How expensive it is for an update is entirely irrelevant to a customer.  Maybe had Squad provided the customer with a finished game originally, they wouldn't need to concern themselves with the cost of an update.