KRL-KerbalRacingLeague-Event organizer tools

[Slam_Jones]

2 minutes ago, DrunkenKerbalnaut said:

You'll see me suggest this compromise again, I'm sure: perhaps make the requirement of KOS/Script a KRL level event thing? And merely a suggestion for other races?

The positives of treating KRL events as "premier" with their own rules: You know what to expect from a race with it's initials in the title.

The most likely downside: we may never see an actual KRL event because it requires too many things from it's participants and organizers. 

The way I picture it, these rules would apply to KRL events, but only act as guidelines elsewhere.  A basis to look at and twist to suit the challenge at hand.

I like that idea, but I agree: more rules often lead to less participants.

[katateochi]

i agree with @SpannerMonkey(smce)'s reasons for not making the KOS script a requirement. It may also be a bit limiting (?) for designs, there are ways other than using flaps for making boost flap type limiters on Junos.  Not sure if the script would restrict that.
It's also defines driving style a bit, ie my prefered way is to have the limiter bound to my bakes and I brake just as I'm coming up to the crest of a hill, so limiting and braking happens just before leaving the ground. I prefer having manual control, sure I make mistakes and some of my crashes are because of that, but that's part of it (and others may prefer the manual or pure stock approach too). 
I don't think the ruling on "flying" should be so restrictive that you have have to have scripted control, it should just be to prevent blatant airborne antics. If you're going over lightly undulating ground at speed and lifting of slightly here and there it shouldn't be a problem if you don't shut your flaps on each lift.  But if you leave the ground for more than a few seconds or by over say 2 meters then if you don't shut the flaps that should be considered flying.  

 

56 minutes ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

therefor i propose that anything that contains an MM patch of any sort be classed as a mod entry not stock

I think that's too blanket. What about a mod like indicator lights? That uses MM patches to stock parts but all it does is add some nice lights. Or things like decals mods which just adds visual stuff.  I think mods like that should be permitted on an otherwise stock craft and still enable it to be entered as stock.  But that should be up to whoever is running the race. 

[DrunkenKerbalnaut]

Slam for.

spanner+katatochi against.  

Majority, and all that. Lets table that one for a bit- only to readdress it if an original point can be made for or against. For now, it will be left as a potential tool, but not a requirement. 

 

Im in referring to the KOS/Script matter. In respect to the MM limitations, I am against. It's a slippery slope, and in this case (maybe all cases) I chose to trust that we can't prevent cheating entirely. 

Edited December 24, 2016 by DrunkenKerbalnaut

[katateochi]

2 minutes ago, DrunkenKerbalnaut said:

I chose to trust that we can't prevent cheating entirely. 

And WE are the KSP community! A generally awesome bunch of trustworthy entities who are mostly out to challenge ourselves and who will adhere to an honor code (mostly).  I honestly think that the more rules that are imposed the more it brings out the cheater in folk. Keep the rules simple and clear and (given this community) if someone pulls something epic out of their hat they generally want to show off how they did it so that helps weed out blatant cheating. 

[DrunkenKerbalnaut]

Just now, katateochi said:

And WE are the KSP community! A generally awesome bunch of trustworthy entities who are mostly out to challenge ourselves and who will adhere to an honor code (mostly).  I honestly think that the more rules that are imposed the more it brings out the cheater in folk. Keep the rules simple and clear and (given this community) if someone pulls something epic out of their hat they generally want to show off how they did it so that helps weed out blatant cheating. 

Good point. You have to pass 50 exhibitionists on your way to a recluse, in this forum.    

[Triop]

My next event : "Twin Peaks"

Again,don't underestimate it....

What do you think ?

Edited December 24, 2016 by Triop

[DrunkenKerbalnaut]

7 minutes ago, Triop said:

My next event : "Twin Peaks"

Again,don't underestimate it....

What do you think ?

Im in. You got a thread for it?

[Triop]

3 minutes ago, DrunkenKerbalnaut said:

Im in. You got a thread for it?

LOL, no, I haven't even finished my Dakar project yet...

I guess if nobody will start a new rally in February this will be up.

This one might be harder though....a lot of steep climbing and steep downhill.

 

Edited December 24, 2016 by Triop

[DrunkenKerbalnaut]

1 minute ago, Triop said:

LOL, no, I haven't even finished my Dakar project yet...

I guess if nobody will start a new rally in February this will be up.

Myself and another forum member are ankles deep in the next -old KSC 2Pyramids. I'll start a thread once your race is under way. 

Edited December 24, 2016 by DrunkenKerbalnaut

[Triop]

Just now, DrunkenKerbalnaut said:

Myself and another forum member are ankles deep in the next -KSC2Pyramids. I'll start a thread once your race is under way. 

Nice !

Gives me time to work on Twin Peaks, I will launch it in march.

[katateochi]

38 minutes ago, Triop said:

What do you think ?

a lot of rovers are going to end up in the sea! yes, fun! 

[Triop]

Just now, katateochi said:

a lot of rovers are going to end up in the sea! yes, fun! 

I'm trying to set up the course but I'm not even getting up the mountain..

This will be hard...

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

9 hours ago, Triop said:

My next event : "Twin Peaks"

I'd wondered about that possibility too, as it's so local, stage 4 to finish is nasty, some of that slope is near vertical.

 

9 hours ago, Triop said:

I'm trying to set up the course but I'm not even getting up the mountain..

This will be hard...

Rock crawler tip, more weight over front wheels, and may require a slightly different friction setting than normal, or a pause before the climb to turn up friction of front wheels.

[mrmcp1]

15 hours ago, DrunkenKerbalnaut said:

You'll see me suggest this compromise again, I'm sure: perhaps make the requirement of KOS/Script a KRL level event thing? And merely a suggestion for other races?

The positives of treating KRL events as "premier" with their own rules: You know what to expect from a race with it's initials in the title.

The most likely downside: we may never see an actual KRL event because it requires too many things from it's participants and organizers. 

I think the KOS thing should be left out as a requirement (but allowed in a stock entry if anyone wants it)

I think a rule that says boost flaps must be deployed as soon as the vehicle is airborne could be used (at most engines would be on for about 1 second) as another required mod will put many people off   

EDIT: hadn't realised this was discussed already

Twin Peaks looks impossible but interesting  

Edited December 24, 2016 by mrmcp1
Didn't realise I only read up to pg4

[DrunkenKerbalnaut]

1 hour ago, mrmcp1 said:

I think the KOS thing should be left out as a requirement (but allowed in a stock entry if anyone wants it)

I think a rule that says boost flaps must be deployed as soon as the vehicle is airborne could be used (at most engines would be on for about 1 second) as another required mod will put many people off   

Previously we tabled the KOS/Script issue due to adequate consensus. It is (and now more so) not a requirement, merely a suggestion. Thanks for your input though. Seeing as it's not likely that a drastically original point will be made in support of, or against this matter - at least in a way that hasn't been expressed by yourself and others - I'd like to move forward to other things. We can revisit later if necessary, but it's been decided for now. 

Boost flaps: I believe that makes for consensus on that matter as well. Let me read back, and I'll edit this post - and the OP - accordingly. 

EDIT: it seems katateochi, spanner, and yourself agree that this would be heavy handed, excessive, or unnecessary to legislate (my words, not theirs). Boost flaps will be a suggestion, not a requirement. This is actually interesting, as there is only one hard requirement so far for KRL events. Races!.

Should we discuss the potential for event scheduling conflicts? Potential disagreements about overlapping events? Personally I  believe this will take care of itself due to the good nature of forum users, but I don't want to leave that stone un-turned. I move that

"respect be given so as not to over-saturate the forum with too many similar events in the same time period. "

Edited December 24, 2016 by DrunkenKerbalnaut

[Azimech]

1 hour ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

I'd wondered about that possibility too, as it's so local, stage 4 to finish is nasty, some of that slope is near vertical.

 

Rock crawler tip, more weight over front wheels, and may require a slightly different friction setting than normal, or a pause before the climb to turn up friction of front wheels.

I have a lot of experience with those things. I'll tell you one thing: electric motors just won't do it.

[Triop]

3 hours ago, Azimech said:

I have a lot of experience with those things. I'll tell you one thing: electric motors just won't do it.

 

It is possible, but you have to zig/zag your way up.

I too have some experience : on top of the K2:

[SpannerMonkey(smce)]

Hey all,  Soo how do you feel about route planning ahead of time?  and  more particularly marking the route with objects to serve as navigation points, making each stage a point to point affair?. Why you ask, well it's because of the Dakar Kerbin edition, and the way that most competitors have marked each stage with some reference to use as a way point.  Now don't get me wrong i have no issue with practicing the stages and thereby perhaps finding a good route, I just feel that marking the route is a bit much. There's a huge difference between driving Dakar stage 3 with no way points and driving it with way points,  10 mins difference in time for me .

SO i know it'll be contentious but maybe there is room for two levels of event in one here,  hardcore and arcade ,  hardcore = practice and no way point placement, arcade = practice and mark the route by the meter if you want

Cheers

[DrunkenKerbalnaut]

I assumed the crowd wanted this thread to 'go quietly into that good night'.

@SpannerMonkey(smce) I just saw your post concerning this in the other thread. I like where your heads at, and I would certainly race one of those GPS coords only race. But it would only be enforceable if the map was released on race day and submissions accepted for a super short period, like 24 hrs or less.  

 

ESIT: an event where OP released coords each day would be amazing. 

Edited December 27, 2016 by DrunkenKerbalnaut

[katateochi]

2 hours ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

Hey all,  Soo how do you feel about route planning ahead of time?  and  more particularly marking the route with objects to serve as navigation points, making each stage a point to point affair?. Why you ask, well it's because of the Dakar Kerbin edition, and the way that most competitors have marked each stage with some reference to use as a way point.  Now don't get me wrong i have no issue with practicing the stages and thereby perhaps finding a good route, I just feel that marking the route is a bit much. There's a huge difference between driving Dakar stage 3 with no way points and driving it with way points,  10 mins difference in time for me .

SO i know it'll be contentious but maybe there is room for two levels of event in one here,  hardcore and arcade ,  hardcore = practice and no way point placement, arcade = practice and mark the route by the meter if you want

Cheers

I hadn't realised that route marking like this was against the RL Dakar rules otherwise I probably wouldn't have put any markers up. But the counter to it is KSP's terrain; on the early stages there are lots of landmarks to navigate by, but on some of the stages (thinking of 5 in particular) it's pretty sparse so it's much harder to remember the "right" route, so I've placed some flags along stage 5.  The other point is that allowing route markers has led to some quite cool and creative things being done which is very Kerbal and I think adds an extra dimension to the whole thing (ok not in the spirit of Dakar, but it's in the spirit of KSP). 
On the whole I'd say that putting some markers up is ok. But maybe there should be a limit to how many markers you're allowed? But's it not that easy to regulate, especially if (as I think was said) you can place fuel at any point (both at the ends of stages and during) then what's to stop people from putting up markers and calling them refueling sites? 

[Azimech]

I sure wish there was a real race track in KSP, one big enough for this baby. The KSC is just too small and like a real race car, terrain is something to avoid at all cost. And a steering wheel is recommended.

Easily the fastest car I've ever built by a wide margin. Top speed ... that's classified for now :-P

Can you guys see what this car is based on?

 

 

Edited December 28, 2016 by Azimech

[DrunkenKerbalnaut]

25 minutes ago, Azimech said:

I sure wish there was a real race track in KSP, one big enough for this baby. The KSC is just too small and like a real race car, terrain is something to avoid at all cost. And a steering wheel is recommended.

Easily the fastest car I've ever built by a wide margin. Top speed ... that's classified for now :-P

Can you guys see what this car is based on?

Either Plymouth SuperBird, or Nissan Bluebird LeMans. 

A bird?

[Azimech]

1 minute ago, DrunkenKerbalnaut said:

Either Plymouth SuperBird, or Nissan Bluebird LeMans. 

A bird?

:-)

Nope.

[DrunkenKerbalnaut]

Just now, Azimech said:

:-)

Nope.

Hmmm...  The design cues are strong. Idk. Nationality clue?

[Azimech]

Just now, DrunkenKerbalnaut said:

Hmmm...  The design cues are strong. Idk. Nationality clue?

Think European ;-)