[1.4.x] Stock Antenna Balance - July-29-2018

[zeant93]

1 hour ago, WuphonsReach said:

If you go into the VAB, into the communications category, what power is shown on the HG-5R antenna?  It should be 10G.  So a single HG-5R would be enough for the tier 1.

If it's not, then you need to search the KSP.log for anything that is touching its part ID (HighGainAntenna5).

Can you see anything wrong in this lines?

Spoiler

[LOG 02:05:08.644] Config(@PART[HighGainAntenna5]) IndicatorLights/Parts/antennas/hg5/@PART[HighGainAntenna5]
[LOG 02:05:08.644] Config(@PART[HighGainAntenna5]) IndicatorLights/Parts/antennas/hg5/@PART[HighGainAntenna5]
[LOG 02:05:25.372] Config(PART) Squad/Parts/Utility/DirectAntennas/HG-5/HighGainAntenna5
[LOG 02:05:27.052] Config(+PART[HighGainAntenna5]:AFTER[OPM]:AFTER[JX2Antenna]) StockAntennaBalance/Stock/AsteroidDay_HighGainAntenna/+PART[HighGainAntenna5]:AFTER[OPM]:AFTER[JX2Antenna]
[LOG 02:05:27.052] Config(+PART[HighGainAntenna5]:AFTER[OPM]:AFTER[JX2Antenna]) StockAntennaBalance/Stock/AsteroidDay_HighGainAntenna/+PART[HighGainAntenna5]:AFTER[OPM]:AFTER[JX2Antenna]
[LOG 02:05:27.095] Config(@PART[HighGainAntenna5]:FINAL) StockAntennaBalance/Stock/Utility_HG-5/@PART[HighGainAntenna5]:FINAL
[LOG 02:05:27.095] Config(@PART[HighGainAntenna5]:FINAL) StockAntennaBalance/Stock/Utility_HG-5/@PART[HighGainAntenna5]:FINAL
[LOG 02:09:06.296] [ModuleManager] Applying node IndicatorLights/Parts/antennas/hg5/@PART[HighGainAntenna5] to Squad/Parts/Utility/DirectAntennas/HG-5/HighGainAntenna5
[LOG 02:09:06.296] [ModuleManager] Applying node IndicatorLights/Parts/antennas/hg5/@PART[HighGainAntenna5] to Squad/Parts/Utility/DirectAntennas/HG-5/HighGainAntenna5
[LOG 02:13:40.566] [ModuleManager] Applying node InterstellarFuelSwitch/Patches/IntegrationLiquidFuel/@PART[*]:FINAL to Squad/Parts/Utility/DirectAntennas/HG-5/HighGainAntenna5
[LOG 02:13:56.142] [ModuleManager] Applying node InterstellarFuelSwitch/Patches/IntegrationLiquidFuelOxidizer/@PART[*]:FINAL to Squad/Parts/Utility/DirectAntennas/HG-5/HighGainAntenna5
[LOG 02:14:12.161] [ModuleManager] Applying node InterstellarFuelSwitch/Patches/IntegrationXenon/@PART[*]:FINAL to Squad/Parts/Utility/DirectAntennas/HG-5/HighGainAntenna5
[LOG 02:14:17.950] [ModuleManager] Applying node StockAntennaBalance/Stock/Utility_HG-5/@PART[HighGainAntenna5]:FINAL to Squad/Parts/Utility/DirectAntennas/HG-5/HighGainAntenna5
[LOG 02:14:17.950] [ModuleManager] Applying node StockAntennaBalance/Stock/Utility_HG-5/@PART[HighGainAntenna5]:FINAL to Squad/Parts/Utility/DirectAntennas/HG-5/HighGainAntenna5
[LOG 02:14:28.679] [ModuleManager] Applying node WarpPlugin/Patches/OreTanksFix/@PART[*]:FINAL to Squad/Parts/Utility/DirectAntennas/HG-5/HighGainAntenna5
[LOG 02:14:41.883] [ModuleManager] Applying node WarpPlugin/Patches/OreTanksFix/@PART[*]:FINAL to Squad/Parts/Utility/DirectAntennas/HG-5/HighGainAntenna5
[LOG 02:23:47.389] PartLoader: Compiling Part 'Squad/Parts/Utility/DirectAntennas/HG-5/HighGainAntenna5'
[LOG 02:23:47.540] PartLoader: Part 'Squad/Parts/Utility/DirectAntennas/HG-5/HighGainAntenna5' has no database record. Creating.
[LOG 02:23:47.572] DragCubeSystem: Creating drag cubes for part 'HighGainAntenna5'

 

[WuphonsReach]

52 minutes ago, zeant93 said:

Can you see anything wrong in this lines?

 

It looks like you might have 2 copies of StockAntennaBalance installed.  I'm seeing lines with both "AFTER[OPM]:AFTER[JX2Antenna]" and "PART[HighGainAntenna5]:FINAL".  When I should only be seeing the latter.  I took the use of AFTER[] out a few weeks ago.

I would suggest removing the GameData/StockAntennaBalance folder and downloading the latest release again.

[zeant93]

On 18/01/2017 at 9:49 PM, canisin said:

Hi!

First of all, thank you for your mod. I am enjoying it a lot. It feels like the exact level of comm complexity that I would like.

But, I have a problem. It's gotta be something very obvious but I really can't figure it out.

I am trying to complete the first stationary satellite contract. I have matched the required orbit as closely as I can to the point that rotating the ship is causing orbit parameters to change. I have spent at least 15 days on this orbit. Still no go

I have placed a screenshot in the spoiler. Please, help me out! This is driving me crazy  

  Hide contents

 

Can you show me your relay satellite for tier1? In my save the section "Have at least 4 G (combined) relay power antenna" it does not turn green.

[evileye.x]

Hello, do you know about AIES mod - it have some very nice antennas?

Original thread was lost unfortunately, but here some 1.2.2 patch for them:

 

Edited March 13, 2017 by evileye.x

[ThreePounds]

Hello! Thanks for providing this cool mod!

However, in your "AsteroidDay_HighGainAntenna.cfg" patch, you introduce a new part SYB_Squad_HighGainAntenna5D which you derive from HighGainAntenna5. Unfortunately, it did not show up in my game. I changed the "AFTER[OPM]:AFTER[JX2Antenna]" flag to "FINAL" and it worked. Is it intended to only show up when those mods are present?

Edited March 21, 2017 by Three_Pounds

[canisin]

On 3/12/2017 at 8:35 PM, zeant93 said:

Can you show me your relay satellite for tier1? In my save the section "Have at least 4 G (combined) relay power antenna" it does not turn green.

Hello, it has been a long time since I posted that and I have even moved on to a new career. So I guess, I will not be able to help you out. But I am sure the mod author @WuphonsReach can help you out.

[justjr]

Oh god... everything turn green but "under acceleration". I'm not accelerating.

[WuphonsReach]

On 3/22/2017 at 8:40 PM, justjr said:

Oh god... everything turn green but "under acceleration". I'm not accelerating.

Polar orbit? Near the Pe?  Or some other orbit around some other body?

(It's a bug in either Contract Configurator or KSP, sometimes the polar orbits will say that there is acceleration when there isn't when you're near Pe.)

[justjr]

12 hours ago, WuphonsReach said:

Polar orbit? Near the Pe?  Or some other orbit around some other body?

(It's a bug in either Contract Configurator or KSP, sometimes the polar orbits will say that there is acceleration when there isn't when you're near Pe.)

Exactly, but after some tries and a while, it started to count the time down. Thanks for the info!

[ShadyAct]

What's the rationale behind the constant power draw for relay dishes?

[fourfa]

yeah, that led me to uninstall it.  Tried making my own ground relay stations, they die minutes after sundown pretty much no matter what.  Not worth the bother

[WuphonsReach]

On 5/12/2017 at 9:14 PM, ShadyAct said:

What's the rationale behind the constant power draw for relay dishes?

Personal preference to introduce additional constraints, requires nukes or RTGs for the larger dishes (or really big solar panels).  You can always edit the files to remove that power draw.

To delve deeper -- stock relay parts do not consume power, unless you use them to transmit science.  Which means there's not much difference between relay and direct in stock KSP and you could just use relay antennas for everything.  So, in order to differentiate them I made it so that:

• Regular (direct) antennas have shorter range, relays have much longer ranges.
• Relay dishes are extremely inefficient at transmitting science (when used as a relay satellite, this doesn't matter, but putting a relay antenna on a science probe will drain your battery).  Even when you use them to bounce signals from other probes, if the relay is on rails no power is simulated.
• Because relay antennas are so important, I gave them a constant power draw (because when the ship is on rails, they never actually draw power until you re-focus), plus higher cost and larger mass values.

So making them expensive, heavier and a constant consumer of power, means I have to build differently for a relay satellite compared to a science probe.  It introduces additional challenges to putting up those 1-10 Terameter dishes into operationg.

Note: I do use USI parts, so easy access to nuclear reactors, plus some other mods that add better RTGs, larger batteries, better solar panels may color my perception of the energy costs.

Edited May 21, 2017 by WuphonsReach

[WuphonsReach]

Assuming that you have the latest ModuleManager installed, this mod may work in 1.3.  The contracts probably will not work because ContractConfigurator is not yet updated for 1.3 and that's my other major dependency.

(I prefer a heavily modded install, and a lot of addons are not updated yet for KSP 1.3.  I also haven't looked into whether CC is going to be updated or if I need to rewrite the contracts in a different fashion.)

[canisin]

On 3/6/2017 at 2:43 AM, WuphonsReach said:

Working on balance with OPM, mostly between the RA-100, JX2 and SIGINT (DMagic) antennas.  

One major change is that the standard DMagic science parts will no longer be upgraded to relays using the KSP upgrade system (they didn't work as relays, at all, due to the way KSP upgrade system works), they'll just be slightly more powerful direct-connection antennas.  I've instead gone with a cloning route where I create two new copies of the oversized/undersized SIGINT dishes which are always available to be used as relays.

RA-100 - 2.0T power 2.85t mass 96k cost 20 EC/s

JX2 - 2.0T power 3.5t mass 75k cost 20 EC/s

SIGINT (undersized) - 1.2T power 1.35t mass 65k cost 15 EC/s

SIGINT (oversized) - 6T power 6t mass 200k cost 100 EC/s

 

Hey @WuphonsReach, did you ever get to implementing / releasing changes for the JX2?

[todi]

On 26.5.2017 at 7:49 PM, WuphonsReach said:

 I also haven't looked into whether CC is going to be updated or if I need to rewrite the contracts in a different fashion.)

For what it's worth, CC has been updated

[WuphonsReach]

Testing this out in 1.3.1, seems to be working okay so far.  At least in terms of the values on the parts, but I have to test the CC.

[WuphonsReach]

Updated to official support 1.3.1.  The only changes I had to make were to update the change log and edit the subject of the thread.  But I did upload a new version to Spacedock (there were some minor balance tweaks made after the last release).

[eightiesboi]

Hey @WuphonsReach, nicely done mod! I really like the way it differentiates between direct and relay antennas, and it has become a necessary part of my game. One request thought--I like the generators on the relay antennas, but it would be nice if they not active when the deployable antennas were stowed. I don't know if this is possible, but in my early games I find myself sometimes having difficulties with running out of power on launch and transfer vessels. For example, I built a separate launch and transfer stage to bring three new relays to orbit simultaneously. The relays were housed inside a fairing and completely stowed, yet as I awaited my maneuver node window, I was rapidly consuming electric charge from antennas that weren't deployed. Since I hadn't (and couldn't, based on spacing) deployed my solar panels on the relays yet, my small panels on the transfer vessel were unable to keep up with the demands from the relay antenna.

Anyways, whether you can make a change or not, I really like the mod and appreciate the work you've done. Thank you!

[WuphonsReach]

@eightiesboi Yes, I would have liked to only have the generators turn on when the antenna was deployed, but have failed to figure out a way to do that yet (without writing C# code).  It's real fun on the big OSIS antenna from DMagic.  That consumes 90 EC/s (but is a 6.0Tm antenna) in the unreleased version. 

On my boosters, I tend to attach fuel cells which are attached to the stage event to turn them on when I launch.  I've also used Module Manager to create clone copies of the SpaceY launch clamps so they provide 15-20 EC/s.  That at least lasts me until I get almost into orbit.

I also have access to large batteries through Near Future Electrical, plus some welded parts that I've created (12k, 32k and 60k).  Plus the various solar panels from NFE and reactors from NFE/USI, so I may not be feeling the pinch as much.

P.S. I have done a bit of balance work on the master branch in the github repo this month (boosting some signal strength, reducing some EC/sec, re-balancing of contracts), but have not yet pushed it out.  It's probably close to a release state, but I'm still play testing.

---

Links (only for the brave, there's no guarantee of balance or support or even future compatibility):

Launch clamps: https://github.com/WuphonsReach/KSP-ScrapyardBob/tree/master/SpaceY-Lifters

Batteries: https://github.com/WuphonsReach/KSP-ScrapyardBobsWeldings/tree/master/Parts/Batteries

Master branch with latest changes: https://github.com/WuphonsReach/KSP-StockAntennaBalance

 

[eightiesboi]

Thanks for your response. I too tried to figure a way to do it, but I am simply not smart enough to figure it out. I figured that, at least for the deployable antennas, there should be an event that fires when they deploy that could trigger resource conversion. After all, you can't transmit when they are stowed, and the program is smart enough to figure that out. But I can't code, only muck about in the configs, and I didn't find an answer there.

This is why I appreciate you and your peers so much. You make the game so much better, and I have no idea what wizardry you work to create the things you do, but I am damn glad that you do it!

Thank you!

[cyberKerb]

Hi @WuphonsReach - is it possible that you could update your copy of the Poodmund spreadsheet you were working from to reflect the current status of the mod? (The power of the DSN is currently set at 5000 for all three levels.)

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yj08CJX458ZbHOsLgVckEtqvHUj5KkP1En-R1kLIYyw/edit?usp=sharing

I mainly ask as I was reading the readme on Github and decided to test the ranges with the spreadsheet and couldn't replicate the numbers.
Based on the following:

•  DSN1 range of 20M
• DSN Modifier set to 1.0
• Comm16 range of 2M

I tried entering the range number in an edited copy I made from yours and the spreadsheet gives a max range of 6.3M. Which is a bit short for the 12M range needed to reach the Mun, let along cover the 91% of the orbit it should. Playing around I found that I can get 91% with a 20M DSN if the Comm16 had a 200M range.

Just wondering what I'm klutz thing doing wrong when trying to get the numbers mentioned in the Readme that I've copied below? 

Quote

Deep Space Network (DSN) - Level 1

(This assumes that the DSN power slider is set to 1.00 in the Game Difficulty options.)

• Command module = 3162km (suitable for LKO)
• Comm-16S = 31,623km (68% at Mun)
• Comm-16 = 63,245km (91% at Mun)
• DTS-M1 = 447Mm (97% at Minmus)

 

EDIT: The numbers I got from the Github file show:

longAntenna - @antennaPower = 2000000 // (2G) Original: 500000 (500k)

Isn't this number 2M? The comment references (2G), but wouldn't this need another 3 zeros, ie 2 000 000 000, but if it's that high, I don't get the 91% mentioned in the Readme.

Edited January 31, 2018 by wile1411

[Lan_Morehell]

Houston, we have a problem here

Somehow every relay antenna now has a fixed consumption of 500/sec... Its absolutely impossible for me to fulfill such a huge demand. How can I change or fix this?  All this stuff happening in 1.4.3

Edited May 20, 2018 by Lan_Morehell

[WuphonsReach]

I'll be taking a look at 1.4.4 this month.  Been busy with other projects (and work).

Busy writing a KSP config file parser in C# using .NET core as I need to update the spreadsheet with more parts pack values and trying to gather the data with awk/grep wasn't working out for me.  Then I want to see how the current system is working before I work on this mod again.

 

Edited July 9, 2018 by WuphonsReach
fixing a link

[WuphonsReach]

Finished up parsing the config file (I used the ModuleManager cache file), see the ParsedData tab.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yj08CJX458ZbHOsLgVckEtqvHUj5KkP1En-R1kLIYyw/edit?usp=sharing

I have 197 parts with antennas in my current GameData/ folder.  This is the raw data prior to installing my mod.  

[canisin]

Hey there, welcome back.