totm may 2024 [1.12.x] - Modular Kolonization System (MKS)

[Duke-49th]

Is there a way to disable the need of MaterialKits for parts that are not part of the mod?

To be honest it feels completely wrong to need MaterialKits for my station modules that can be expanded mechanical (with servos). For what should I have MaterialKits here? Same for inflatable parts. That makes absolutely no sense (to me) and therefore I would like to disable that at very least for non-MKS parts.

Thanks in advance.

[DStaal]

24 minutes ago, Duke-49th said:

Is there a way to disable the need of MaterialKits for parts that are not part of the mod?

To be honest it feels completely wrong to need MaterialKits for my station modules that can be expanded mechanical (with servos). For what should I have MaterialKits here? Same for inflatable parts. That makes absolutely no sense (to me) and therefore I would like to disable that at very least for non-MKS parts.

Thanks in advance.

What mod are the parts a part of?  MKS doesn't add MaterialKits to other parts, but they may have compatibility patches.

As for what sense it makes: Fasteners to secure it to deployed/inflated condition, furniture, walls, etc.  The idea is that an inflatable/deployable module arrives like an empty house - and then the MaterialKits are your furnishings and belongings you put in as you move in.

[Duke-49th]

I use Station Parts Expansion Redux.

I could understand it and it somehow makes sense. But 6tons of materials for one part? Thats a bit much.

So I guess I have to check the Station Parts Mod's config. Thank you.

 

Edit : Found the responsible configs. Thanks for the hint.

Edited October 8, 2019 by Duke-49th

[DStaal]

25 minutes ago, Duke-49th said:

I use Station Parts Expansion Redux.

I could understand it and it somehow makes sense. But 6tons of materials for one part? Thats a bit much.

So I guess I have to check the Station Parts Mod's config. Thank you.

 

Edit : Found the responsible configs. Thanks for the hint.

No problem.  Note that the SSPEX patch for MKS reduces the mass of the parts by the amount of the MK's that you have to add...

[RoverDude]

1 hour ago, Duke-49th said:

I use Station Parts Expansion Redux.

I could understand it and it somehow makes sense. But 6tons of materials for one part? Thats a bit much.

So I guess I have to check the Station Parts Mod's config. Thank you.

 

Edit : Found the responsible configs. Thanks for the hint.

Those masses are probably absolutely correct for balance reasons   There's actually a balance sheet that handles how much mass a part should have (along with mass reduction for MKs) based on functionality.  So you do get some pretty hefty numbers, and that is completely by design.

[t6jesse]

First post on the forums, sorry if this has already been asked (it's kinda hard to search for what I'm looking for, and I checked the wiki).

How do i find out exactly what the special kerbals do? I see that they are 50x cheaper, so obviously they'll be limited, but the descriptions in the wiki aren't super clear, and I tried digging through the MKS game files but all I found are which traits/effects correlate to each kerbal, but not what they do. Is there another file that shows the effects? Or some other source that explains it all?

[meashot7727]

Will there be an update to the most recent version of KSP?

[RoverDude]

1 hour ago, meashot7727 said:

Will there be an update to the most recent version of KSP?

*Looks at forum thread title....*  

*Looks at version file...*

*Checks to see if 1.8 is out already....*

[DoktorKrogg]

On 10/13/2019 at 1:42 PM, t6jesse said:

First post on the forums, sorry if this has already been asked (it's kinda hard to search for what I'm looking for, and I checked the wiki).

How do i find out exactly what the special kerbals do? I see that they are 50x cheaper, so obviously they'll be limited, but the descriptions in the wiki aren't super clear, and I tried digging through the MKS game files but all I found are which traits/effects correlate to each kerbal, but not what they do. Is there another file that shows the effects? Or some other source that explains it all?

Welcome to the forums!

https://github.com/UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS/wiki/Crew-Skills-Impact-on-Parts

Short version: MKS introduces several additional skill traits to KSP that are required to operate various bits of MKS equipment. Pilots, Scientists and Engineers are a "jack of all trades" sort of Kerbal who possess several of the traits. Specialists can typically only do one thing. If you scroll to the bottom of that wiki page, it gives descriptions for what each one does. Miners, for instance, give an efficiency boost to drills (Engineers can also do this). Quartermasters specialize in logistics and are required by the logistics parts (Pilots can also do this). If those descriptions aren't clear enough, then you may have to ask more specific questions about which roles aren't clear. (Side note: There is a secondary background mechanic in MKS where Kerbals contribute to colony bonuses overall and those bonuses also feed back in to boost efficiency. So the more Kerbals you have on the ground, the more efficient the colony is as a whole. Colonies slowly accumulate Funds, Science and Reputation rewards based on colony bonuses as well.)

PS We're getting ready to make specialists a lot more expensive in the next release. They'll still be cheaper than the original 3 but it will be more like 50% cheaper, not 50x cheaper. 

[LTChance]

So, first of all, thanks so much for making these mods and continuing to update them.  You've probably done more for the players' enjoyment of KSP (or maybe even any other game) than any other modder.  Now, here is my probably irritating request.  I'm not super savvy at manually downloading and installing a bunch of mods without breaking the game.  Would it be possible for you to update either the CKAN versions (CKAN still says 1.1.0) or the USI Constellation on GITHUB (still says for 1.5.X)?  If so, thanks!  If not, thanks anyway!

 

[t6jesse]

What is geology research, in conjunction with scientific, botany and colony research? 

And what's the point of scouts? Only reason I can see is for someone to operate equipment in remote sites, but most seem to require either specific kerbals or the 3 original types, not scouts, and they're not pilots so if you lose CommNet access they can't take over for a probe core

[DoktorKrogg]

3 hours ago, t6jesse said:

What is geology research, in conjunction with scientific, botany and colony research? 

https://github.com/UmbraSpaceIndustries/MKS/wiki/Functions-(Efficiency-and-Load)#planetary-bonuses

3 hours ago, t6jesse said:

And what's the point of scouts? Only reason I can see is for someone to operate equipment in remote sites, but most seem to require either specific kerbals or the 3 original types, not scouts, and they're not pilots so if you lose CommNet access they can't take over for a probe core

Scouts (and Pilots) are immune to Habitation effects in USI-LS as long as they're in a vessel with at least 1 year of hab time:

https://github.com/UmbraSpaceIndustries/USI-LS/wiki#habitation

[TheSuMa]

First of all, many thanks to making and maintaining your mods, really enjoying playing with them.

@RoverDude @DoktorKrogg Sorry for posting it here, found no place to give feadback regarding WOLF beta. I understand that there is no thread before official release, but watched your last TwitchStream and have a suggestion regarding your TransportRoute exploit discussed at 00:40

As i can see there is currently not only the exploit problem:

• Refueling is like cheating as it raises Mass => More payload and less cost for route, but should be allowed as it is nothing special for large distances to refuel once in orbit
• A heavy ship will give a lot of payload => Why getting payload for i.e heavy engines?
• Cost is related to mass
  • Regarding staging, an expensive but lightweight engine is cheaper than a heavy cheap engine
  • If i have a ship flying with karborundum i have almost no cost as i don't use much fuel (but very expensive fuel)
• Possibility of free routes

I think there is an easy solution to all of this:

• Calculate the payload as minimum resource mass in vessel during transport (This is the amount of resources you could have transported)
  • Ability to refuel, no additional payload given
  • Ability to dock / undock
  • No exploit
• Calculate cost as sum burned resources + dry-cost of parts lost (staging)
  • Cost relates to real resource cost used on route
  • Cost relates to part-cost you staged away

The implementation should not be very hard or complex, but as currently only binaries and no source is public i was not able to test anything of that. I checked the source with a decompiler (hope this is ok for you, if not give me a note and i delete the linked file immediately) and made an example implementation. As mentioned, no possibility to test as not complete source available / found

Checkout this as implementation suggestion

[t6jesse]

And for Kolony stats, are those only applicable on the surface? I have an orbital station around the Mun with 2 pilots, a scientist and an engineer, and everything just says 100%, same with the USI LS greenhouses.

Or is there a special module required, like the Pioneer module (I know its required to withdraw funds, science, and rep earned over time)?

[Watchboy52]

So I'm currently using the Snacks mod, is there any sort of conflict between the supplies mechanics in MKS and the mechanics of Snacks? Particularly in the field of setting up bases and colonies because I'm also using Pathfinder as well.

[DoktorKrogg]

Hey @TheSuMa thanks for the suggestions re: WOLF and welcome to the forums. This is actually the right place to post about WOLF. It will be bundled with MKS once it releases.

I think we will want to get WOLF released and then get more feedback from players before we make any changes to the way transport routes are currently implemented. One of the key design goals with WOLF was to keep it as simple as possible to make the code easy to maintain and to make the mod easier to explain to new players. We aren't really that worried about "cheating" since KSP is a single player game. If people want to exploit systems, the only person they're cheating is themselves.  If we do decide at some point to impose additional restrictions on what counts toward the payload and cost calculations for transport routes, then we will probably add something like a "WOLF cargo crate" to the game with a fixed mass that is used to determine payload capacity and then maybe also hook into global construction to determine the complexity and "cost" (in MatKits) of the vessel itself. For now though, I feel good about the decision we came to during the stream and I want to see how it plays before we make more drastic changes.

[TheSuMa]

Thanks for the detailed replay and sharing some future ideas on WOLF @DoktorKrogg.

47 minutes ago, DoktorKrogg said:

keep it as simple as possible to make the code easy to maintain

Fair enough, i totally understand this

47 minutes ago, DoktorKrogg said:

We aren't really that worried about "cheating" since KSP is a single player game

Agree, probably you got me wrong, just let everyone cheat if he wants, i have no problem with that  My main concern was that if i do things like refueling my transporter once in orbit i feel like cheating, and i don't want to cheat. But refueling is a gameplay style, and i thought that especially with WOLF (it's main purpose is to produce thinks like fuel off site) i should at least post my thoughts on this before you put even more effort into TransportRoutes. It felt just wrong to let you do all the work, and once released come up with "i think this is not an ideal solution...". I was just looking for a way around this single "problem", and once i was in the subject, well, i think you know how it is..., one led to the other 

But anyways, i don't want to argue with you, i totally understand your arguments and think you two did a great job so far on this, many thanks for all the time you're putting into making this great game even better

Edited October 16, 2019 by TheSuMa

[RoverDude]

6 hours ago, Watchboy52 said:

So I'm currently using the Snacks mod, is there any sort of conflict between the supplies mechanics in MKS and the mechanics of Snacks? Particularly in the field of setting up bases and colonies because I'm also using Pathfinder as well.

Supplies are more of a USILS concern vs MKS.  For the rest, as long as you're ok running two resource chains, though it may get odd if a mod tries to patch for both.  So mix at your own risk

Tbh I think the effort of refueling makes short transport routes is self balancing, so I am ok with it.  My opinion may change once I do some missions from Eve ;). In which case I agree with @DoktorKrogg's assessment and options.

[Brigadier]

KSP 1.8, USI LS, Core & Tools 1.2.0.0 (and dependencies CCK, CRP, FS Core and MM)

Installed the USI suite via CKAN in a KSP 1.8, however, in the VAB with a craft consisting of an Orca, a Nom-o-Matic 25000 and 4 Kerbals, I can't display the LS window.  The button is on the toolbar and responds to a mouse click but no window results. 

The following is spammed to the log file (which now appears at C:\Users\xxxx\AppData\LocalLow\Squad\Kerbal Space Program\Player.log):

Quote

Loading Config
 
(Filename: C:\buildslave\unity\build\Runtime/Export/Debug/Debug.bindings.h Line: 35)

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at LifeSupport.LifeSupportPersistance.SetupSettings () [0x00012] in <293124646a844ce6b8853ebbceabb423>:0
  at LifeSupport.LifeSupportPersistance.GetSettings () [0x0000b] in <293124646a844ce6b8853ebbceabb423>:0
  at LifeSupport.LifeSupportMonitor_Editor.UpdateGUIInfo (ShipConstruct ship) [0x002ad] in <293124646a844ce6b8853ebbceabb423>:0
  at LifeSupport.LifeSupportMonitor_Editor.OnGUI () [0x0008b] in <293124646a844ce6b8853ebbceabb423>:0
 
(Filename: <293124646a844ce6b8853ebbceabb423> Line: 0)

If I launch the vehicle, on the launchpad, the window displays correctly.  When I revert to the VAB, the window appears and responds to the button.  The spam no longer occurs.

Have I missed something?

Apparently, I did miss something.  After a KSP restart, the problem has gone.  No log spam, window appears in the VAB.

Edited October 17, 2019 by Brigadier
Problem solved with KSP restart

[RoverDude]

Good deal. FYI, I'll be out of country for the next week and a half with limited forum access 

[Space Cowboy Bob]

Is anyone else finding MKS incompatible with 1.8? USI Life Support works, but I just wanted to confirm if anyone else is having issues with MKS? It gets to the end of the loading screen, say's "Loading Breaking Ground", then goes to "Verifying Breaking Ground" and that's as far as it'll load. The max KSP version though says 1.8.9. 

[Terwin]

32 minutes ago, Space Cowboy Bob said:

Is anyone else finding MKS incompatible with 1.8? USI Life Support works, but I just wanted to confirm if anyone else is having issues with MKS? It gets to the end of the loading screen, say's "Loading Breaking Ground", then goes to "Verifying Breaking Ground" and that's as far as it'll load. The max KSP version though says 1.8.9. 

When I click on the link in RoverDude's signature, I see ' KSP 1.7.x Compatibility ' for each of the latest releases.  Where are you getting a 1.8 version of MKS?

[goldenpsp]

1 hour ago, Terwin said:

When I click on the link in RoverDude's signature, I see ' KSP 1.7.x Compatibility ' for each of the latest releases.  Where are you getting a 1.8 version of MKS?

Looks like it released yesterday?

 

 

[Terwin]

4 minutes ago, goldenpsp said:

Looks like it released yesterday?

 

 

Yes, KSP 1.8 released yesterday, but that does not mean that all mods will automatically work for the new version.

In particular, as there was a Unity upgrade as part of KSP 1.8, I would expect most mods not to work properly without an update, as any code would need to be re-compiled to link properly to the new game code.

 

 

[goldenpsp]

19 minutes ago, Terwin said:

Yes, KSP 1.8 released yesterday, but that does not mean that all mods will automatically work for the new version.

In particular, as there was a Unity upgrade as part of KSP 1.8, I would expect most mods not to work properly without an update, as any code would need to be re-compiled to link properly to the new game code.

 

 

Oh yea sorry, I misread your sentence about 1.8 version of MKS.