totm may 2024 [1.12.x] - Modular Kolonization System (MKS)

[GnarlyVonDudeBro]

So I remember in older versions of MKS, parts listed their efficiency consumption type and a number, but none of the parts seem to have this information. Efficiency boosters still display their boost amount and type, but not the consumptors. Is there any way to tell what the efficiency consumption is for a module, to help with planning?

[Feye]

15 hours ago, Terwin said:

Did you see that the new 20m atlas parts have a max crew of 96 each?

A couple of hab domes and a couple of factory domes would let you use most of that.

Question: do the Atlas parts still benefit from only the highest specialist on the station?  I vaguely remember something about multiple specialists being useful, but that might have been in relation to WOLF...

If you only benefit from one specialist, that is a *lot* of kolonists...

Yes I saw the big atlas FAT CHONK parts... (And I love 'em!)
Just gotta figure out a way to utilize the 20m ones with the bulge on the bottom () in a way that doesn't look silly...
But going further down that road - doesn't building on that scale (partially) negate the benefits of WOLF, namely reducing "part" count?
Are Kerbals not also "parts" that need to be tracked etc?
And those >1200 Colony Supplies is only the "small" 2.5m Hopper.. I don't even know what the big 3.75m one does OTOH.

I might need a bigger boat...

 

Edit:
How does one build stuff in orbit or on other bodies now?
Is this still TBD now that the bundled GC got removed?

Edited February 22, 2021 by Feye

[Brigadier]

12 minutes ago, Feye said:

How does one build stuff in orbit or on other bodies now?
Is this still TBD now that the bundled GC got removed?

Soon^TM.  RoverDude is still working on this as part of an upcoming release.  Watch his Twitch stream for more up-to-date info, if you're curious.

[Feye]

3 minutes ago, Brigadier said:

Watch his Twitch stream for more up-to-date info, if you're curious.

Yeah I'm just watching the VOD from last night literally right now - since I missed that stream

I guess I can finish deploying WOLF Depots in Kerbin SOI for the time being. Mun has quite the number of biomes...

[Terwin]

6 hours ago, Feye said:

Yes I saw the big atlas FAT CHONK parts... (And I love 'em!)
Just gotta figure out a way to utilize the 20m ones with the bulge on the bottom () in a way that doesn't look silly...
But going further down that road - doesn't building on that scale (partially) negate the benefits of WOLF, namely reducing "part" count?
Are Kerbals not also "parts" that need to be tracked etc?

I don't think kerbals count as parts when on a craft, as they do not require any physics simulation.

Not many bases can be self-supporting in a single biome, WOLF is mostly for handling all of the stuff other than your main base on each planet.

A single 20m atlas part replaces several smaller parts.

For example, you can have 6 active bays on an atlas module, and I would expect that they would be at least the equivalent of a tundra module, so the 20m module should be able to replace at least 6 3.75m tundra parts(plus related stands, airlocks, etc).

 

[RoverDude]

FYI - atlas variants on the agenda to handle that bottom node (they were originally going to have some pretty cradles).  Also looking at more adapters and such after the current push is out. 

[Feye]

22 minutes ago, Terwin said:

I don't think kerbals count as parts when on a craft, as they do not require any physics simulation.

[snip]

Makes sense.

Yeah I know, configuring things correctly was a thing before the atlas parts were available
So I guess all one really needs for a colony is two wolf hoppers providing colony supplies for the living modules and supplies for snacks (appropriate WOLF infrastructure too obviously).
Wouldn't even have to deal with the various ways of greenhouses and agroponics/cultivate etc. anymore... nice.

22 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

FYI - atlas variants on the agenda to handle that bottom node (they were originally going to have some pretty cradles).  Also looking at more adapters and such after the current push is out. 

Soon™...

[Terwin]

2 hours ago, Feye said:

So I guess all one really needs for a colony is two wolf hoppers providing colony supplies for the living modules and supplies for snacks (appropriate WOLF infrastructure too obviously).
Wouldn't even have to deal with the various ways of greenhouses and agroponics/cultivate etc. anymore... nice.

Soon™...

That would be a minimum, yes, but one of the weaknesses of wolf, is that it is completely static(as far as I can tell), and you cannot adjust production based upon your current needs.

As such, having a 20m Atlas factory that you can re-purpose as needed gives a lot more flexibility than pushing all of your manufacturing into WOLF(especially as we do not yet know the details on how the new parts manufacturing process will work, so having that flexibility can help take advantage of the new functionality as soon as it is released)

Also, I do not believe that WOLF handles population growth, so you will need MKS parts for that as well(if you want it).

[RoverDude]

WOLF is excellent at making the manufacturing side provided you're looking for a static chain.  So a 100% WOLF Network that ends with the output of MatKits, Machinery, etc. in a shipyard via hoppers would be one of the main use cases.

[DoktorKrogg]

RE: WOLF hoppers... they haven't really been balanced against MKS. They just output 1 tonne of stuff per day per WOLF unit of the resource which was very much intended as merely a starting point to get WOLF out into the wild. We plan to re-examine everything in MKS/USI-LS/WOLF/Karbonite/etc. soon to make sure things are working as intended and well balanced since there have been a lot of changes the past few years. So if anyone has specific feedback on that topic, we'll entertain it. "A 2.5m life support hopper should output enough Supplies to feed X number of Kerbals because Y" is an example of specific, helpful feedback. "Part X is OP" is an example of vague, less-helpful feedback. 

[RoverDude]

Oh... we have a Discord thing now...  https://discord.gg/UuPgNG52SX 

[Roman7616]

Excuse me, when you will make upgrade for mod MKS? Thanks

[OrdinaryKerman]

1 hour ago, Roman7616 said:

Excuse me, when you will make upgrade for mod MKS? Thanks

What exactly needs updating? It already says "1.11.x" in the thread title, which included the two latest versions of KSP (1.11.0 and 1.11.1)

[armegeddon]

He's probably wondering about the previously mentioned additions being incorporated. I know I'm eagerly awaiting whatever ends up replacing GC, and slowly building out the infrastructure in my career game to support it.

[RoverDude]

For that we're in the 'weeks' end of the spectrum right now.  Then another round of changes

[Tacombel]

When boarding a base through the MKS 'tundra' Mini-Airlock, all science carried by a kerbal is lost, so the only way to take it to my lab is using it's own doors, which I didn't place anywhere convenient.

I have been trying to add science storage capability to the airlock with a MM patch, but I can find which module adds this.

[RoverDude]

1 minute ago, Tacombel said:

When boarding a base through the MKS 'tundra' Mini-Airlock, all science carried by a kerbal is lost, so the only way to take it to my lab is using it's own doors, which I didn't place anywhere convenient.

I have been trying to add science storage capability to the airlock with a MM patch, but I can find which module adds this.

Look at the stock science container part

[Tacombel]

Yea, I did  but perhaps the module is not visible in-game. Will check the configs

Edit: yea, exactly that :-)

Edited February 24, 2021 by Tacombel

[RoverDude]

yeah I would look at the actual .cfg

 

[chateaudav]

Hello everyone,

I need your help. I have installed the last version of USI constellation from github. Now when i launch CKAN i have this message :

Quote

The following mods have had their metadata changed since last update:
- UKS 1:1.4.1
You should reinstall them in order to preserve consistency with the repository. Do you wish to reinstall now?

So i click on YES and i got that one next : 

Quote

Failed to connect to repository. Exception: Trying to write C:/KSP/GameData/UmbraSpaceIndustries/WOLF/CHANGELOG.txt but it already exists.

Is it normal ? If not, what should i do ?
(i have already tried little things like reinstall)

Thanks,

[Terwin]

3 minutes ago, chateaudav said:

Is it normal ? If not, what should i do ?
(i have already tried little things like reinstall)

It is basically saying 'something changed here, and unless you did this deliberately, you probably don't want this change and should go back to the known state'

Seeing as how you did indeed make changes, this is normal and expected.  You should not try to reinstall because you want the beta version(which is not yet in ckan and that is why it is complaining). 

I usually find it less troublesome to remove any ckan supported versions of the mod before I try to manually add it, just to avoid this sort of thing.

[goldenpsp]

1 hour ago, Terwin said:

It is basically saying 'something changed here, and unless you did this deliberately, you probably don't want this change and should go back to the known state'

Seeing as how you did indeed make changes, this is normal and expected.  You should not try to reinstall because you want the beta version(which is not yet in ckan and that is why it is complaining). 

I usually find it less troublesome to remove any ckan supported versions of the mod before I try to manually add it, just to avoid this sort of thing.

Or i find it easier to just not use ckan.  But then again I keep my mod list very small.  I don't need that many to have a good time in KSP.

[RoverDude]

Yeah, one thing being discussed is doing 'bleeding edge' constellation releases because there are a lot of things folks want to play with - but I expect that's going to make CKAN flip out

 

[Spaceman.Spiff]

2 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

Yeah, one thing being discussed is doing 'bleeding edge' constellation releases because there are a lot of things folks want to play with - but I expect that's going to make CKAN flip out

It works OK for Kopernicus...

You may just want to have a separate branch. 

[Feye]

Also you don't need to launch CKAN every time you play the game...
In fact I would only use CKAN to get all the mods I want for a playthrough (well, the ones I can get through CKAN anyway) because it's just convenient, and then never touch it again other than for a new game unless I specifically intent to screw around with my current save.
Much less hassle that way

Backtracking a little bit to my wondering earlier about the 2.5m WOLF Lifesupport Hopper dropping enough ColonySupplies for 428 Kerbals...
Turns out the 3.75m one provides enough for1,071!
And just to be clear (because sometimes text doesn't convey intent properly), it was not meant as a "vague feedback", just mere curiosity on my part
The aforementioned curiosity ran its course and I came up with this monstrosity: https://imgur.com/a/nXJhZll
It's just a proof of concept and obviously not meant to be launched as displayed, but I was surprised how little CrewPoints it took (I used 3 star Kerbals for everything as you can easily achieve this with just Kerbin and one quick dip into Sun SOI). Just over 2M funds for all the WOLF stuff too, pretty good!

While playing around I also noticed some other things:

• The 3.75m Fuel Hopper's Liquid Fuel option is 400 instead of - presumably - 1,000 (probably just a copy paste and missed edit from the 2.5m variant).
• The Atlas Factories' recipes are different to what a Tundra Assembly Plant does, completely skipping intermediates and making finished products from just raw input (actually applies to all their recipes from what I can tell).
  This is neat but makes Recyclables a dead end because Metals, Chemicals and Polymers have no use anymore (only an "issue" when you keep Machinery consumption enabled in the difficulty settings)?
• Snooping around in the *.cfgs revealed most products being made by various parts have "DumpExcess = FALSE", while byproducts such as Recyclables have this as TRUE.
  Doesn't this mean that production of something would eventually just stop because "storage full"? Combined with how the stock game processes resource throughput (playing "catch up") when you switch back to a craft after a while, would it not be more reasonable to just have everything have "DumpExcess = True" considering resources don't deplete?
  Might be a tricky one for just ship based production chains.. probably best to keep this False for Supplies

Regardless, I enjoy playing with USI, can't wait for the construction stuff!